Huckabee

[quade 4]

We had a poll a few months back asking which of the field people supported. At the time I mentioned I thought it was a good thing that Huckabee had been left off as I personally thought he was a scary prospect when it came to thinking he'd end up in the Oval.

Weird thing is, he's gotten a lot of traction with a certain portion of conservative; the religious right.

Please read this article.

This guy really doesn't work for me on any level.

At first I thought he was simply too preachy and too connected with being the former president of the Arkansas Baptist Convention.

But now I also think his knowledge of basic world events is also too narrow.

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I went to Vacation Bible School for all the wrong reasons -- I was told they'd give me all the cookies I could eat and all the Kool-Aid I could drink. But that day I got something better than cookies and Kool-Aid. I got the Savior.

How the hell can any person that we'd consider to be experienced enough to be President of the United States, OR HIS SPEECH WRITING STAFF OR ADVISORS, not understand the implications of this previous paragraph?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Tink1717 2]

The funny thing is that even though the radical religious right (RRR) has owned, lock, stock and barrel, the repubs for decades, they have NOTHING to show for it. Abortion is still here and legal, gays are not banned, there is no state church and the ten commandments are not enshrined as law. So, my question is: When are they going to figure out that they've been duped?

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[airdvr 210]

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We had a poll a few months back asking which of the field people supported. At the time I mentioned I thought it was a good thing that Huckabee had been left off as I personally thought he was a scary prospect when it came to thinking he'd end up in the Oval.

Weird thing is, he's gotten a lot of traction with a certain portion of conservative; the religious right.

Please read this article.

This guy really doesn't work for me on any level.

At first I thought he was simply too preachy and too connected with being the former president of the Arkansas Baptist Convention.

But now I also think his knowledge of basic world events is also too narrow.

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I went to Vacation Bible School for all the wrong reasons -- I was told they'd give me all the cookies I could eat and all the Kool-Aid I could drink. But that day I got something better than cookies and Kool-Aid. I got the Savior.

How the hell can any person that we'd consider to be experienced enough to be President of the United States, OR HIS SPEECH WRITING STAFF OR ADVISORS, not understand the implications of this previous paragraph?

What implications? I don't personally think the guy would make a good President but he's at least being forthright and honest about who he is. There's too much BS that comes from speech writers and staff. You just never know whether the candidate is talking or the speech writer.

If it's the religious implications you're referring to I'll bet I wouldn't have to look too far to find some of that crap from EVERY candidate. Scary church people.

DEMOCRATS:

Delaware Sen. Joseph Biden: Roman Catholic

New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton: Methodist

Connecticut Sen. Christopher Dodd: Catholic

Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards: Methodist

Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich: Catholic

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama: Christian

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson: Catholic

___

REPUBLICANS:

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani: Catholic

California Rep. Duncan Hunter: Baptist

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee: Southern Baptist

Arizona Sen. John McCain: Episcopalian

Texas Rep. Ron Paul: Baptist

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney: Mormon

Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo: Presbyterian

Former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson: Southern Baptist

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[quade 4]

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What implications?

Seriously? You're not familiar with the phrase "drink the Kool-Aid" or its origins?

Wow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_jones
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drink_the_kool-aid#.E2.80.9CDrinking_the_Kool-Aid.E2.80.9D

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airdvr 210]

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What implications?

Seriously? You're not familiar with the phrase "drink the Kool-Aid" or its origins?

Wow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_jones
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drink_the_kool-aid#.E2.80.9CDrinking_the_Kool-Aid.E2.80.9D

To link Jim Jones with Huckabee is a real stretch. I am familiar with Jonestown and I never connected the 2 statements. Maybe it's just Monday

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I use the Kool-Aid allusion all the time and it blew right by me when I read that quote.

[Darius11 12]

Separation of Church and State are one of the fundamental rules of this country. Supporting a candidate in hopes of a getting a more religious decision-maker in the White House is anti American. Any one who is in public office would be basing their decision on facts and logic not on what god told them.

This is not Theocracy lets make sure it stays that way.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[NewGuy2005 53]

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What implications?

Seriously? You're not familiar with the phrase "drink the Kool-Aid" or its origins?

Wow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_jones
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drink_the_kool-aid#.E2.80.9CDrinking_the_Kool-Aid.E2.80.9D

Should all Christians strike the term Kool-Aid from their vocabulary?

I also, have misgivings about a Baptist preacher in the White House, but not because he said he drank Kool-Aid at church. It happened to be a popular drink back then.

Dude, you need to lighten up! That kind of fanaticism damages your credibility

[Lindsey 0]

I think that "Kool-Aid" connection you're trying to make is off base where Huckabee is concerned. He's a bible thumper, and I've not voted for him previously....won't vote for him now, but he's an honest fella. I think he's a good man, and he'd probably be perplexed about where you came up with that.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[rushmc 23]

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Separation of Church and State are one of the fundamental rules of this country. .

No, not in the context you intend here

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Separation of Church and State are one of the fundamental rules of this country..

If you dont beleive me read

"The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States"

By Benjamin F. Morris—1864

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,501]

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How the hell can any person that we'd consider to be experienced enough to be President of the United States, OR HIS SPEECH WRITING STAFF OR ADVISORS, not understand the implications of this previous paragraph?

I'm amazed that you zeroed in o that quote when the article also contains these gems:

"Government knows it does not have the answer, but it's arrogant and acts as though it does," Huckabee said. "Church does have the answer but will cowardly deny that it does and wonder when the world will be changed."

"I didn't get into politics because I thought government had a better answer. I got into politics because I knew government didn't have the real answers, that the real answers lie in accepting Jesus Christ into our lives."

"I hope we answer the alarm clock and take this nation back for Christ."

So he's running for office for the sole purpose of replacing government with Christianity.

Yay

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[airdvr 210]

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Separation of Church and State are one of the fundamental rules of this country. Supporting a candidate in hopes of a getting a more religious decision-maker in the White House is anti American. Any one who is in public office would be basing their decision on facts and logic not on what god told them.

This is not Theocracy lets make sure it stays that way.

Funny how folks mis-understand the whole "Separation" thing. Take a look at your money...it doesn't say "In Government We Trust".


"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

Thomas Jefferson - 1802

I think most people are mistaken when they think religion and government are meant to be seperate. Now don't get me wrong...many things about religion trouble me. But I still think we need some basis to form an opinion. Where do you get your guidelines? Where do you start when you're trying to decide right from wrong? Is there anyone here who could say the US system of laws is not dsigned after the bible?...or at least the 10 commandments?

Ooooh...this is gonne get deep

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jakee 1,501]

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Is there anyone here who could say the US system of laws is not dsigned after the bible?...or at least the 10 commandments?

Yes. Most anyone with a brain could tell you that.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[airdvr 210]

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Is there anyone here who could say the US system of laws is not dsigned after the bible?...or at least the 10 commandments?

Yes. Most anyone with a brain could tell you that.

OK...what is it? Tell me what you know. And yes, I do have a brain. Funny how when you start talking about religion people get very passionate and want to imply that the other side is just stupid.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jakee 1,501]

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Is there anyone here who could say the US system of laws is not dsigned after the bible?...or at least the 10 commandments?

Yes. Most anyone with a brain could tell you that.

OK...what is it? Tell me what you know. And yes, I do have a brain. Funny how when you start talking about religion people get very passionate and want to imply that the other side is just stupid.

Ok, have you looked at the 10 commandments recently?

#1) No such law (and the constitution expressly forbids such a law).
#2) No such law (and the constitution expressly forbids such a law).
#3) No such law (and the constitution expressly forbids such a law).
#4) No such law (and the constitution expressly forbids such a law).
#5) No such law.
#6) Law.
#7) No such law.
#8) Law.
#9) Law.
#10) No such law.

So you're basically looking at a 30% strike rate there - pretty poor I think you'll agree. It gets much worse though, lets look at the commandments that do have matching laws: Murder, theft and perjury.

Are you honestly going to suggest to me that the founding fathers needed to look in the Bible to figure out that murder, theft and perjury would be bad for the stability of society? I think not, my friend.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Darius11 12]

I believe both of you should read The Science of Good and Evil. Great book.

The laws that have been credit to many religions were there in most successful societies before any book.
Do not kill others is not just obeyed because of religion or because of what god told you it is a law that is needed for a society to survive. All law obeying citizens are not religious they simply understand for a large society to survive we need laws.


As for my understanding of the separation of church and state.

I believe the founding father did not want a president who is influenced or makes his/her decisions on what their god tells them too.

I understand that if a candidate has faith it is a non-issue as discriminating for people with faith is no better then discriminating against people without faith.
However when you have a person who has dedicated much of his life to the word of his god it is hard to believe he would not suffer from clouded/baise judgment.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Andrewwhyte 1]

If you look at where US law has been you can certainly see #3 and #6.

[airdvr 210]

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Is there anyone here who could say the US system of laws is not dsigned after the bible?...or at least the 10 commandments?

Yes. Most anyone with a brain could tell you that.

OK...what is it? Tell me what you know. And yes, I do have a brain. Funny how when you start talking about religion people get very passionate and want to imply that the other side is just stupid.

Ok, have you looked at the 10 commandments recently?

#1) No such law (and the constitution expressly forbids such a law).
#2) No such law (and the constitution expressly forbids such a law).
#3) No such law (and the constitution expressly forbids such a law).
#4) No such law (and the constitution expressly forbids such a law).
#5) No such law.
#6) Law.
#7) No such law.
#8) Law.
#9) Law.
#10) No such law.

So you're basically looking at a 30% strike rate there - pretty poor I think you'll agree. It gets much worse though, lets look at the commandments that do have matching laws: Murder, theft and perjury.

Are you honestly going to suggest to me that the founding fathers needed to look in the Bible to figure out that murder, theft and perjury would be bad for the stability of society? I think not, my friend.

Where do you think they got that idea? You think they just woke up one morning and said "ya know, murder, theft, and perjury would be bad".

I'm not talking about the laws as they relate to the 10 commandments. I'm talking about the ideolgy used in forming those laws. It's based upon religion. It's based upon knowing that murder, theft, and perjury are wrong. Where do you suppose they got those ideas?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Darius11 12]

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Where do you think they got that idea? You think they just woke up one morning and said "ya know, murder, theft, and perjury would be bad".

I'm not talking about the laws as they relate to the 10 commandments. I'm talking about the ideolgy used in forming those laws. It's based upon religion. It's based upon knowing that murder, theft, and perjury are wrong. Where do you suppose they got those ideas?

There was democracy and laws way before religion.
As stated above read the Book the science of good and evil. They have plenty of examples.

The laws exist because we need laws for a large society to survive, and having a large successful society helps all in that society.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[airdvr 210]

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I believe both of you should read The Science of Good and Evil. Great book.

The laws that have been credit to many religions were there in most successful societies before any book.
Do not kill others is not just obeyed because of religion or because of what god told you it is a law that is needed for a society to survive. All law obeying citizens are not religious they simply understand for a large society to survive we need laws.


As for my understanding of the separation of church and state.

I believe the founding father did not want a president who is influenced or makes his/her decisions on what their god tells them too.

I understand that if a candidate has faith it is a non-issue as discriminating for people with faith is no better then discriminating against people without faith.
However when you have a person who has dedicated much of his life to the word of his god it is hard to believe he would not suffer from clouded/baise judgment.

Show me the non -religious affiliated candidates. SHow me the President who said "I don't believe in God"

Inauguration speeches

George Washington's second address is the only one to contain no mention of the Christian God. Thirty-four of the 55 addresses contain the word "God." The addresses that refer to, but do not contain the word "God" instead say Giver of Good, Heaven, Almighty, Divine, or Providence. The last president not to say "God" was Franklin D. Roosevelt (second address).

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jakee 1,501]

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I'm not talking about the laws as they relate to the 10 commandments.

Then why did you say "designed after the 10 commandments"? Please be more precise in future.

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I'm talking about the ideolgy used in forming those laws. It's based upon religion. It's based upon knowing that murder, theft, and perjury are wrong. Where do you suppose they got those ideas?

So you think that the only reason people think murder, theft and perjury are wrong is because the bible says so? Good lord Out of curiosity just what the hell do you think laws against murder were based on in classical society?

A stable society cannot exist without those kind of laws. Anyone who needs a bible to tell them that is a complete moron. It grossly insults the intelligence of the founding fathers to suggest they needed the Bible to tell them that. Furthermore, laws against that kind of behaviour did not originate with the bible, rather they preceded it and the Bible merely copied them into canon.

Altruism, co-operation and order within groups are all recognisable evolutionary imperatives within social animals. If you want to know why we found out murder is wrong then go learn some biology.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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It grossly insults the intelligence of the founding fathers to suggest they needed the Bible to tell them that.

It also grossly insults the intelligence to suggest that the founders of the US were not heavily influenced by religion and that they were not 100% Christian. The historical records are pretty clear about that.

[airdvr 210]

ANcient Egypt...Laws were based on Ma'at Ma'at did not exist until Ra rose from the waters of Nun (various gods and goddesses of Chaos). She was known as a Neter goddess, and as such, was described as a daughter of Ra. But without Ma'at, Egyptians believed that Nun would reclaim the universe. She was also thought to be the wife of Thoth, moon god and god of the wisdom.

Not based on religion? How about Mesopatamia?

As a civilization contemporary with Egyptian civilization, Mesopotamia developed education quite similar to that of its counterpart with respect to its purpose and training. Formal education was practical and aimed to train scribes and priests. It was extended from basic reading, writing, and religion to higher learning in law, medicine, and astrology. Generally, youth of the upper classes were prepared to become scribes, who ranged from copyists to librarians and teachers. The schools for priests were said to be as numerous as temples. This indicates not only the thoroughness but also the supremacy of priestly education. Very little is known about higher education, but the advancement of the priestly work sheds light upon the extensive nature of intellectual pursuit.

Hmmm...maybe China?

The Shang worshipped a figure they called "Shang Ti," or "Lord on High." This supreme god ruled over lesser gods of the sun, the moon, the wind, the rain, and other natural forces and places. Shang-Ti also regulated human affairs as well as ruling over the material universe. This dual function would, in the Chou dynasty, be attributed to a more abstract figure, "t'ien," or "Heaven." The Shang also believed that their ancestors dwelled in heaven after their death and continued to show an interest in their familiy and descendants. The obligations within the family included, therefore, the ancestors. Failing in one's duties to the ancestors could bring all sorts of disaster on a family

Ooops...not there either.

My point is that every scociety had laws based on their religion.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jakee 1,501]

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It grossly insults the intelligence of the founding fathers to suggest they needed the Bible to tell them that.

It also grossly insults the intelligence to suggest that the founders of the US were not heavily influenced by religion and that they were not 100% Christian. The historical records are pretty clear about that.

I didn't say they weren't influenced by Christianity. To say that they only made laws against murder because the bible told them to is just stupid though. As is to say that laws were designed after the 10 commandments, when more commandments are expressly forbidden from being enshrined in law than actually are enshrined in law.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?