Amazon 7 #51 December 11, 2007 Hey you said there was a picture.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #52 December 11, 2007 >I recall a picture of George Washington kneeling to pray in the snow at >Valley Forge. I doubt it was a picture; probably was a painting. In any case, a few notes on ol' George: "In the Enlightened Age and in this Land of equal Liberty it is our boast, that a man's religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States." (George Washington) "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion--as it has itself no character of enmity against the law, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] . . ." (treaty Washington negotiated during his term) Thomas Jefferson wrote "I know that Gouverneur Morris. . . has often told me that Genl. Washington believed no more of that system [Christianity] than he himself did." Paul F Boller wrote ". . . if to believe in the divinity and resurrection of Christ and his atonement for the sins of man and to participate in the sacrament of the Lord's Supper are requisites for the Christian faith, then Washington, on the evidence which we have examined, can hardly be considered a Christian, except in the most nominal sense." Barry Schwartz wrote "As President, Washington regularly attended Christian services, and he was friendly in his attitude toward Christian values. However, he repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary.... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative. George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian. In the enlightened tradition of his day, he was a devout Deist--just as many of the clergymen who knew him suspected." I think he can easily be shown to not be "a president who is influenced or makes his/her decisions on what their god tells them too." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #53 December 11, 2007 Until you've really considered the gravity of the decisions a POTUS must make I wouldn't be so quick to judge the means he/she uses to get some sleep. Do I want my President to make his decisions based on his faith? No. I can see them using it as a "moral compass" or the like.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #54 December 11, 2007 The last thing we need is another religious zealout. I don't care which god our President prays to, but I sure would like him to consider his religion a relatively personal matter of reasonable perspective...not "that which defines him." Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #55 December 11, 2007 > Until you've really considered the gravity of the decisions a POTUS >must make I wouldn't be so quick to judge the means he/she uses to get >some sleep. He can sleep however he wants! (Well, provided it doesn't involve downers or a fifth of scotch.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #56 December 11, 2007 Quote > Until you've really considered the gravity of the decisions a POTUS >must make I wouldn't be so quick to judge the means he/she uses to get >some sleep. He can sleep however he wants! (Well, provided it doesn't involve downers or a fifth of scotch.) Well, that puts the current crop of Kennedys out of the picture.... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #57 December 11, 2007 QuoteI think that there's no doubt that George Washington preyed. Slave ownership is so wrong. Had a great grandfather of some degree who was hung for not fighting for the Confederacy because he didn't believe in slavery. So even back then a man with principles could resist the urge to own people. You know Washington was a slave owner right? Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #58 December 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteI think that there's no doubt that George Washington preyed. Slave ownership is so wrong. Had a great grandfather of some degree who was hung for not fighting for the Confederacy because he didn't believe in slavery. So even back then a man with principles could resist the urge to own people. You know Washington was a slave owner right? I'm pretty sure the post involved a deliberate play on words of pray/prey.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #59 December 11, 2007 I wasn't sure if it was a pun or crappy spelling. Given the lack of grammar in the rest of the post, I went with spelling Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #60 December 11, 2007 QuoteThe last thing we need is another religious zealout. I don't care which god our President prays to, but I sure would like him to consider his religion a relatively personal matter of reasonable perspective...not "that which defines him." So what would you have to define the man? His atheism, his politics, his sexual peccadillos? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #61 December 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe last thing we need is another religious zealout. I don't care which god our President prays to, but I sure would like him to consider his religion a relatively personal matter of reasonable perspective...not "that which defines him." So what would you have to define the man? His atheism, his politics, his sexual peccadillos? His actions. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everon 0 #62 December 12, 2007 QuoteSo what would you have to define the man? His atheism, his politics, his sexual peccadillos? How about his past record of accomplishments, geopolitical knowledge, etc.? Why should a president's religion matter at all? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #63 December 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo what would you have to define the man? His atheism, his politics, his sexual peccadillos? How about his past record of accomplishments, geopolitical knowledge, etc.? Why should a president's religion matter at all? When they espouse their religion as the solution to all the nations problems, and declare that their main aim in running for office is to tout that religion from a position of power. I think that's when it kinda becomes relevant.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #64 December 12, 2007 Quotehis sexual peccadillos? Didn't know Washington had those! By the way, Waltappel feeds peccadillos in his backyard at night. Does that make him eligible for the presidency? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everon 0 #65 December 12, 2007 QuoteWhen they espouse their religion as the solution to all the nations problems, and declare that their main aim in running for office is to tout that religion from a position of power. I think that's when it kinda becomes relevant. My point being is that I don't care what his religion is as long as he is competent. I believe it should be a private matter. When candidates start what you describe above they are not qualified for the top office IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #66 December 12, 2007 Why can't we have a preacher for president? Works well for Iran. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #67 December 12, 2007 Quote Quote When they espouse their religion as the solution to all the nations problems, and declare that their main aim in running for office is to tout that religion from a position of power. I think that's when it kinda becomes relevant. My point being is that I don't care what his religion is as long as he is competent. I believe it should be a private matter. When candidates start what you describe above they are not qualified for the top office IMO. Which is why I made this post in a thread entitled 'Huckabee'Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #68 December 13, 2007 So what would you have to define the man? His atheism, his politics, his sexual peccadillos? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteHow about his past record of accomplishments, geopolitical knowledge, etc.? Why should a president's religion matter at all? Well, everything that we believe influences who we are. Kind of like Hillary believing that the only reason socialism fails is because she isn't running the show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #69 December 13, 2007 I'm a Christian, but I just have to say that the extent of the obsession about the president's religion is ridiculous. I wonder if Protestant Fundamentalists (& similar groups) are just jealous of Catholics, because we have a pope & they don't, so they want the President to be a sort of Pope for America. It would explain the excessive obsession with the President's religious beliefs. I mean, come on. The government is supposed to do things like fix the pot holes in the street. They're not supposed to be some high & mighty spiritual leader. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #70 December 13, 2007 I find it amazing that in the USA, some contend a man's religious beliefs should be a determination of his suitability for President. The founding fathers must be turning over in their graves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #71 December 13, 2007 They seem to forget that the general concept behind that particular portion of the First Amendment is about freedom *OF* religion, not freedom *FROM* religion... said statement, of course, only applies to Christian faiths...all others are "protected", apparently.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #72 December 13, 2007 QuoteThey seem to forget that the general concept behind that particular portion of the First Amendment is about freedom *OF* religion, not freedom *FROM* religion... said statement, of course, only applies to Christian faiths...all others are "protected", apparently. Oh come on, spare us the poor oppressed majority line, yeah? Wait until there's a non christian major presidential candidate and watch the sparks fly. You'll have to wait a hell of a long time though, because being christian is a de facto prerequisite to seeking high office in the US. Also, you do both realise that this thread is not just about a candidate who is religious, but who wants to push his religion on the nation through the presidency? What would the founding fathers think about that?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #73 December 13, 2007 Your sarcasm makes my statement no less true. As for your statement about the candidates, this would be different than Jimmy Carter in what way, exactly?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #74 December 13, 2007 QuoteYour sarcasm makes my statement no less true. Your statement wasn't true. It's kinda hard to then make it less true. You say that 'other religions get a free pass' - how exactly? Because people don't complain about Islamic/Hindu/Buddhist influence in government? Well guess what, that's because it isn't there! Not complaing about a non-existent problem does not constitute giving a freepass to anyone. QuoteAs for your statement about the candidates, this would be different than Jimmy Carter in what way, exactly? I give a fuck about how Jimmy Carter ran his campaign why, exactly? It is relevant how, exactly?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #75 December 13, 2007 Huckabee is a silly name. I just thought I'd point that out. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
