JohnRich 4 #26 December 15, 2007 QuoteQuotehis dreams of carnage were thwarted I say he committed quite the carnage. 5 people dead is a carnage in my books. How many do you suppose he would have killed if armed good guys had not been present to intervene and stop him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #27 December 16, 2007 "It's easier for the USA to become a third world nation, than it is to convert the third world countries to democracies".... ?? cant remember who said that recently... However my point is this, if the NEW WORLD ORDER has it their way the SCOTUS, the BoR and the USC WILL be out the door! But I believe that when WE the PEOPLE start to see this taking shape (it is now b4 our own eyes) then the KING will riding in!!! I for one am looking forward to His return b/c of all the bs here that WE cant possibly change... However, I will miss doing a few thingys here on terra ferma.... Hows that for mixing POLITICS, GUNS and RELIGON? its all good! :DD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #28 December 16, 2007 ...I know this is a constitutional right, but how long will it be until ... The way I see it, the real problem is over-population. The more people there are, the more nut cases you have shooting people... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ In theory yes, gun ownership is a constuitutional right. So why are we hassled by the cops for possession? Liberals grudgingly agree that it's a right, then they pass a bunch of ancillary laws making it a crime to have a gun in a position where it can actually be useful to you if you need it. There is no such thing as overpopulation. The earth can handle many more people than it currently does. The issue is left-wing control of the public school system. Students are not being taught the moral foundation that would prevent most people from wanting to hurt others in the first place, gun or no gun. 50 years ago we had much easier access to guns and much fewer violent incidents. But the schools are dominated by socialist political activists who think Judeo-Christian moral principles are dangerous and that the Bible is something from which children must be protected. A liberal is someone who thinks cross-dressing in the workplace is a constitutional right, but owning a gun is a crime. Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #29 December 16, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuotehis dreams of carnage were thwarted I say he committed quite the carnage. 5 people dead is a carnage in my books. How many do you suppose he would have killed if armed good guys had not been present to intervene and stop him? How many do you suppose he would have killed if, as a clearly unstable person, he had not been allowed easy access to a gun?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #30 December 17, 2007 We probably won't loose our rights to own guns, but we will probably see the cost of ammo increase to the point that we can't afford it. A longgun without bullets is a club. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #31 December 17, 2007 >A liberal is someone who thinks cross-dressing in the workplace >is a constitutional right, but owning a gun is a crime. I'm a liberal, and I don't think either one of those things. Most liberals I know don't either. (But it sure makes a nice sound bite!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #32 December 17, 2007 Bill, you and I both know you are not a typical mainstream liberal.I met a married couple last night at a Christmas party. They have been married for 20+ years, and the husband was talking to me about his interest in getting a firearm again, and resuming hunting and target shooting. His wife overheard us and said "If I had known you were going to own firearms again, I would have never dated you" She is a nice enough lady, but she does work in the public school system, and had stated that "I am from Chicago, and we all know that the only people with guns are criminals" I asked her what about me? She said" Oh, well you were in the military so you have been indoctrinated that way" The husband wanted a S&W 5906 and I persuaded him to buy a better pistol, a factory refurbished Sig P-226, and six mags. Maybe later on we can get him a surefire light. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #33 December 17, 2007 There is no such thing as overpopulation. The earth can handle many more people than it currently does. The issue is left-wing control of the public school system. Students are not being taught the moral foundation that would prevent most people from wanting to hurt others in the first place, gun or no gun. reply] ......................................................................... I disagree with you on both these issues. Planet Earth is now supporting way more people than it ever has. Time will change all of this in my opinion. Like any other animal population that gets too big, it will eventually come crashing down. As far as schools go, many school staff members might be termed left wing. I'm not sure why that is the case, but it is a fact. No, religion isn't being taught in public schools. But I think that is a good thing, not bad. Which religion would you want taught? I imagine it would be whichever religion you believe in. Suppose the religion was something other than Christianity. Would you want your kids being taught that? Most kids learn right from wrong, from their parents, not from religious leaders in a church. I can't really see why people feel that religion is such a vital ingredient for turning out good kids. I think a kid's parents are far more important than that. And that is the key ingredient that most troubled kids need...a caring adult who gives a rip about them! I'll admit many kids are troubled today in America. Don't you think that directly stems from their lack of good parenting, rather than the lack of religion. Many think that the belief in God is the answer. I disagree with that notion. Many people, are excellent parents, yet they may not be believers. Many do a great job raising their kids, despite the fact they don't go to church.... In my opinion religion does not belong in the school. There are many religious schools for those who think otherwise. This is the kind of narrow mindedness that really bothers me. Many people think that because you are not a believer you can't be a good person. I brought my kids up to believe in reality. I don't want them being taught that they can solve their problems by praying to some magical being who can work miracles.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #34 December 17, 2007 QuoteHow many do you suppose he would have killed if armed good guys had not been present to intervene and stop him? How many do you suppose he would have killed without a gun? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #35 December 17, 2007 What a tired argument. Bad guys get guns no matter what laws are made.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #36 December 17, 2007 QuoteBad guys get guns no matter what laws are made. Which is a very tired counter argument. What if 50% of bad guys could no longer get guns or the ammunition to fire them....would that be worth something? Discussing in absolutes serves absolutely no purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #37 December 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteBad guys get guns no matter what laws are made. Which is a very tired counter argument. What if 50% of bad guys could no longer get guns or the ammunition to fire them....would that be worth something? Why punish millions who have done no wrong/committed no crimes because of the actions of very few?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #38 December 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteBad guys get guns no matter what laws are made. Which is a very tired counter argument. What if 50% of bad guys could no longer get guns or the ammunition to fire them....would that be worth something? Discussing in absolutes serves absolutely no purpose. Show me one law that has stopped the bad guys from getting guns or ammo. Show me how any of those laws have reduced gun crime in the USA. All they have served to do is slow/hinder the law abiding gun owners from purchasing guns.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #39 December 18, 2007 QuoteShow me one law that has stopped the bad guys from getting guns or ammo. That is an impossible feat. For all we know that has already happened once..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #40 December 18, 2007 If guns were outlawed and, by corollary, so would be the sale of guns, then wouldn't it stand that also the sale of ammunition would be illegal? If ammo was illegal, then wouldn't companies stop making it? and then, even if the criminals had guns, isn't the problem solved by them not having any ammo to use? I mean, I'm sure getting a gun thrown at you hurts if it hits you, but it's better than a bullet! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #41 December 18, 2007 Here in LA, according to the federal data sitting on my desk, most of the illegal guns have come in over the border. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #42 December 18, 2007 Hi, Is there any indication of who manufactured them in the first place? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #43 December 18, 2007 QuoteHere in LA, according to the federal data sitting on my desk, most of the illegal guns have come in over the border. Interesting. Do they define "illegal gun"? "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #44 December 18, 2007 QuoteHi, Is there any indication of who manufactured them in the first place? Not on this report, but others I've seen seem to indicate they originated from somewhere in Central and South America. There's a ton of gun smuggling going on in those areas, and lots of weapons that are legitimately sold to law enforcement and the military end up in the hands of smugglers because the supply channels get diverted. If anyone's bothered to track how many are which type of gun, I'd be interested to see that, but if such a report exists, it hasn't come across my desk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #45 December 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteHere in LA, according to the federal data sitting on my desk, most of the illegal guns have come in over the border. Interesting. Do they define "illegal gun"? Unregistered or reported stolen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
