Old Westerns, guns and horses.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Being a city boy, I wouldn't know.

But I read a magazine article once that said that all those Old Western movies have lied to us when they show people shooting guns from horseback. That if you tried that in real life, the horse would freak out & dump you.

So is that true? Can horses be conditioned to the sound of gunfire from their rider? What about cavalry during the Civil War?

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[jm951 0]

In a word- yes

The thing is to acclimate the horse to the sounds gradually. I've been in numerous Civil War reenactments with cavalry units present and the horses didn't spook from the owners firing, the troop firing or from the artillery. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts from cavalry actions to back this up. The mag article was bunk.

[jakee 1,564]

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But I read a magazine article once that said that all those Old Western movies have lied to us when they show people shooting guns from horseback. That if you tried that in real life, the horse would freak out & dump you.

That argument is just absurd on the face of it.

If a horse will dump its rider at the sound of gunfire, how did old western movies manage to film riders firing guns on horseback? Never mind that cavalry charges continued to be used well into the age of gunpowder.

Obscure fact for the day, Winston Churchill took part in the last ever great cavalry charge of the British Army, in Sudan 1898. Guess he wasn't always so hefty

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[masterrig 1]

There are western action shooters who fire pistols and rifles from horseback. When starting out in training a horse for such activities, start with small calibre weapons and work-up to heavier calibres. When on horseback and fire a weapon, shoot to the side or back... never, over the horses head. It'd be a real problem if you shot over the horses head just as he raised his head! Also, you can get ear plugs for horses for these activities. Hope, this helps.


Chuck

[SpeedRacer 1]

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The mag article was bunk.

ok maybe some of the horses get used to it. I googled this a bit & couldn't find too much about this. (most of what I found was about firing arrows, not guns, from horseback)

I found one post from a rider who said his horse could NOT get used to gunfire (from his back), not even with ear plugs.

so maybe some horses can EVENTUALLY get used to it, but some cannot.


so I'm assuming, a horse that has not been acclimated to it would spook, and maybe that's what the magazine article was talking about? (it was about a scouted hunting trip on horseback, and one of the guests tried to shoot at an elk from the saddle).

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[steve1 5]

When we were kids we used to laugh at all the cowboys who were chasing someone and firing right over a horses head. Even then we knew that a horse would be deaf in short order if you tried that. Ever get your head too close to a pistol or rifle muzzle when it goes off? Normally your ears will ring for hours after.

But you could train a horse to be shot off of, if you pointed the muzzle away from it's head. Starting off with a 22 and working up to a bigger gun might be smart.

Most people I know Wouldn't shoot off the back of one, but it has been done. A rodeo buddy of mine shot a nice bull elk from the back of his horse. He fired once, and his horse didn't do much.

It's hard to hunt off horse back though. I had a nice bull standing in the trail once. I got off my horse, pulled my rifle out of the scabbard, and by then the elk was gone. I often thought I should have shot off that horses back.

Another time three bear were running up the side of the mountain next to us. An old sow and two yearling cubs. I jumped off my horse, and fired three times hitting the big sow. Then I had to go catch my saddle and pack horse that went galloping a half mile back down the trail. They wouldn't have stopped then but my Dad had two horses they missed. Yes, this sort of thing will usually scare your horses....

[airdvr 210]

This post made me think of something I saw last week.

Doing some sales calls out in Amish country I passed a buggy on a 2-lane. Right behind me was an 18-wheeler. I gave a fairly wide berth, but the truck was pressed with oncoming traffic and blew by that horse and buggy combo with about 2 feet to spare. Horse never reacted. Made me wonder.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[pirana 0]

Horses are quite skittish in general about most things; it is their nature. Just being ridden, without guns blazing, takes a good amount of training.

Even well-trained horses often retain certain skittishes. We had a Western Saddle champ (a good number of ribbons) that never did get used to water. Trail riding was a challenge; steeplechase was right out.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[steve1 5]

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Horses are quite skittish in general about most things; it is their nature. Just being ridden, without guns blazing, takes a good amount of training.

Even well-trained horses often retain certain skittishes. reply]
...................................................................
It's easy to forget how dangerous horses are. Even a well broke horse can do you in, in the right circumstances. I've known a couple experienced riders who've had a horse roll on them, killing them. My wifes cousin was kicked in the chest by a bronc and it killed him. There are probably zillions of people who have been injured messing with horses. They may not be quite as dangerous as skydiving, but I've heard they injure more people than motorcycles.....

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[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

Horses are quite skittish in general about most things; it is their nature. Just being ridden, without guns blazing, takes a good amount of training.

Even well-trained horses often retain certain skittishes. reply]
...................................................................
It's easy to forget how dangerous horses are. Even a well broke horse can do you in, in the right circumstances. I've known a couple experienced riders who've had a horse roll on them, killing them. My wifes cousin was kicked in the chest by a bronc and it killed him. There are probably zillions of people who have been injured messing with horses. They may not be quite as dangerous as skydiving, but I've heard they injure more people than motorcycles.....

You got that right. My mom was seriously, but superficially injured. She landed on her face in gravel. The side of her face looked horrific, but eventually did heal. I've been trampled and thrown a few times; but I was much younger and bouncier.

My scariest moment came when I was riding bareback, no equipment at all. I'd go out in the pasture and hop on one of our better trained and more well behaved beasts. I did this a few times, no problem. Just grab a handful of mane, get right up behind the withers, hunker down and squeeze hard with your legs. The best trained ones, the ones trained to neck rein with the slightest input, would turn nicely just from the weight of your hand on one side of the neck or the other.

So I'm doing this one day and out of nowhere the horse decides to bolt for home (the stable). Being on a big strong high performing horse at a full gallop with no means of forcing them to slow down was very exciting, and very scary. I never did it again. After that I always rode with at least a rope thru the bottom ring of the halter.

BTW, I noticed early on that the experienced competitors at the horse shows we attended often walked behind their horses, contradicting the gospel preached to us as kids. But they walked right behind them, very close. That way they got pushed instead of kicked.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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[mnealtx 0]

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BTW, I noticed early on that the experienced competitors at the horse shows we attended often walked behind their horses, contradicting the gospel preached to us as kids. But they walked right behind them, very close. That way they got pushed instead of kicked.

Yup... "within 1 foot or outside 5 feet" was the rule I was taught.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

Horses are quite skittish in general about most things; it is their nature. Just being ridden, without guns blazing, takes a good amount of training.

Even well-trained horses often retain certain skittishes. reply]
...................................................................
It's easy to forget how dangerous horses are. Even a well broke horse can do you in, in the right circumstances. I've known a couple experienced riders who've had a horse roll on them, killing them. My wifes cousin was kicked in the chest by a bronc and it killed him. There are probably zillions of people who have been injured messing with horses. They may not be quite as dangerous as skydiving, but I've heard they injure more people than motorcycles.....

Agreed upon entirely.

The guy I told you about that trains hunters(horse) is very vocal about the fact that you cannot train a horse for something they have not ever encountered.

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[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Horses are quite skittish in general about most things; it is their nature. Just being ridden, without guns blazing, takes a good amount of training.

Even well-trained horses often retain certain skittishes. reply]
...................................................................
It's easy to forget how dangerous horses are. Even a well broke horse can do you in, in the right circumstances. I've known a couple experienced riders who've had a horse roll on them, killing them. My wifes cousin was kicked in the chest by a bronc and it killed him. There are probably zillions of people who have been injured messing with horses. They may not be quite as dangerous as skydiving, but I've heard they injure more people than motorcycles.....

Agreed upon entirely.

The guy I told you about that trains hunters(horse) is very vocal about the fact that you cannot train a horse for something they have not ever encountered.

I have a friend that use to train horses for the Houston PD.

The list of things that they train/condition the horse for is unimaginable...Think gunfire, bombs, cars, riots, fire, weather(hurricanes)....on & on.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[steve1 5]

There's a lot to horse training. I learn something new every day. I'll admit I sure don't know it all.

Many people are going to mules for riding and packing. They have a calmer disposition than a horse. I like a horses personality more though.

Other people are using draft cross horses. They too are bred for their calm disposition. I've seen a lot of horses that might not ever be good in the mountains, because they are just too high strung.

I owned a Clydesdale once. What a calm animal! I'd get him all tangled up, when I skidded logs with him. He'd just stand there and wait for me to get him out of that mess. At lunch time, he'd stick his big ole head in the truck and beg for part of your sandwich. We even packed him in the mountains some. I sure hated to sell him. He was like part of the family.....

[warpedskydiver 0]

I know what you mean. I was referring to things you cannot provide that they may encounter.

Things like rock slides, (sure you can simulate it, but it will not be as realistic or dangerous)

Horses can only learn what they can actually enounter.

Too bad they can't read books.

But if they could, they would go to france on a killing spree.

[warpedskydiver 0]

We just found out that the beautiful paint gelding we were going to buy has glaucoma ( or some other malady that cause a cloudy retina)

Damn he is a good boy, kind, gentle, affectionate, great jumper, and a perfect gait.

what a drag, if he can be treated or cured we would still like to have him.

I hope the current owner will pay for the treatment, instead of passing him off or euthanizing.

[billvon 3,079]

>Think gunfire, bombs, cars, riots, fire, weather(hurricanes)....on & on.

I have this funny image of a day at the training compound -

"Hey, there's a Category 4 hitting Louisiana in 12 hours! Let's load em up and get down there!"

[airtwardo 7]

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>Think gunfire, bombs, cars, riots, fire, weather(hurricanes)....on & on.

I have this funny image of a day at the training compound -

"Hey, there's a Category 4 hitting Louisiana in 12 hours! Let's load em up and get down there!"

Never thought they'd get it ALL in one day!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[shropshire 0]

Calvery charges into Cannon would have been a shite way to run a war - wouldn't they?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jm951 0]

Yup, all the way up to the 19th century, cavalry was used as shock troops. It took the massed musketry of the British squares at Waterloo to drive home the point that there are some things a horse just won't do. The French cavalry was only able to gallop around the perimeter of the squares and couldn't be forced to crash into them. Meanwhile, the infantry was having a grand time picking them off.

[shropshire 0]

Written 1854



Half a league half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred:
'Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd ?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die,
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd & thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turn'd in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack & Russian
Reel'd from the sabre-stroke,
Shatter'd & sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse & hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder'd.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[masterrig 1]

Check-out SASS: Single Action Shooters Society. they are on the web and they do a lot of contest shooting from horseback.


Chuck