Bill Clinton says.......

[KelliJ 0]

Bush is a moron. (Let's make that "idiot". I know a few morons and they are really nice people )Not many will argue that point.
I voted for him twice, both times to keep who I considered the bigger idiot out of office. I don't regret either vote.
And I'm not a moron (or an idiot) so that proves you wrong.

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I don't regret either vote. And I'm not a moron (or an idiot) so that proves you wrong.

Ill take that part back

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Amazon 7]

Ok so we can blame you... for what has happened to the country... well done

[KelliJ 0]

Does that include the stock market reaching all-time highs? And interest rates being at all-time lows? And unemployment being at 20 year lows?
You can also credit those of us who voted for Bush for helping to avoid what would have happened to this country had Gore and Kerry been elected.
Bush isn't perfect, far from it. But anyone who is waiting for the perfect candidate is in for a long, long wait.

[happythoughts 0]

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I voted for him twice, both times to keep who I considered the bigger idiot out of office.

I wonder why no one ever blames the Dems for providing Kerry as a candidate.

He never seemed to say anything of substance and he always acted confused.

"What is your name?"
"How much time do I have?"
"...10 seconds John"


Now they have Hillary, who no one expects to win, but will raise massive amounts of money.
I am still unsure who the Dems will actually run.

Hopefully someone who campaign slogan is not, "I have the same great hair as JFK."

[mirage62 0]

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Ok so we can blame you... for what has happened to the country... well done

Yes. your right, anyone that voted for Bush twice is a idiot. It has nothing to do with Gore or Kerry, But of course if you voted for Clinton twice your a genus.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[Amazon 7]

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Does that include the stock market reaching all-time highs? And interest rates being at all-time lows? And unemployment being at 20 year lows?
You can also credit

Speaking of credit..... uh.... seen the deficit that you will be paying for ALL of your working life and your children too

I would say the Friends of George have done VERY well at raping the country..

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I am still unsure who the Dems will actually run.

I am with you on that. I'm not sure either, and I am not certain they will win 2008. They havent really put up any good candidates. I probably like Joe Biden the best, but I dont really see him getting too far. I think we aer going to be very surprised in this next election.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Does that include the stock market reaching all-time highs? And interest rates being at all-time lows? And unemployment being at 20 year lows?

The problem is it is all on borrowed money. Can we also credit him for the rise in foreclosures. The subprime mess, asset backed papers?

[KelliJ 0]

You can credit him for whatever your heart desires.

[jcd11235 0]

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Does that include the stock market reaching all-time highs?

Not much of an accomplishment considering the Dow generally has a positive rate of change. When the amount of time it took the Dow to re-reach the level it was at when Bush took office is also considered, the "accomplishment" is lessened even further.

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And interest rates being at all-time lows?

And a home mortgage crisis to show for the ill advised low rates set by Bush's administration.

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And unemployment being at 20 year lows?

And all we had to do was stop counting those who were looking for work.

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You can also credit those of us who voted for Bush for helping to avoid what would have happened to this country had Gore and Kerry been elected.

It sure would have sucked for Gore to continue in Clinton's footsteps and keep the pressure on bin Laden pre 9/11, instead of waiting until the threat was proven beyond any doubt.
I'm also thankful that we didn't have to suffer a president who understood the importance of renewable energy. It would have been terrible to have a president who, at the very least, would have been able to keep pressure on the energy industry to keep prices down so they are competitive with renewable sources.
I'm certainly glad America was mislead about the threat Iraq posed to her neighbors and the rest of the world. We would be so much worse off without a borrow and spend method of finance for an unnecessary war that has killed thousands of Americans, and hundreds of thousands, if not over a million, Iraqi civilians, removing a secular leader from a region in need of secular leaders in the process.

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Bush isn't perfect, far from it. But anyone who is waiting for the perfect candidate is in for a long, long wait.

True, perfect candidates are largely non-existent, but Bush has screwed up everything he has touched. after nearly seven years, I am still waiting for him to do something right, for the first time in his presidency.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

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Yes. your right, anyone that voted for Bush twice is a idiot. It has nothing to do with Gore or Kerry, But of course if you voted for Clinton twice your a genus.

Why would anyone's idiocy have anything to do with Gore or Kerry? Your argument is species. In order to be a genus, one must vote for family values and fuck the middle class. So get your ballots out, markum, and phylum with your local registrar. Our kingdom needs another ruler who reigns supreme in his (and every other) domain. Life is short...vote Republicrat!

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[KelliJ 0]

Interesting point of view even if one sided.
I tend to disagree, though.

[happythoughts 0]

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It sure would have sucked for Gore to continue in Clinton's footsteps and keep the pressure on bin Laden pre 9/11, instead of waiting until the threat was proven beyond any doubt.

Clinton took office on 1/20/93.
On 2/26/93, WTC is van bombed. The seriousness of things was not in doubt after one month in office.
If he knew that OBL was responsible, why wasn't he taking the fight to him?

What did he do during 8 years in office ?

In Somalia, OBL was expecting a protracted 10-year war, like with the Russians. When Clinton backed out of Somalia, OBL was quoted as saying that America was a "paper tiger". He said that it encouraged him and his fighters. Attacks increased worldwide.

Clinton reduced American credibility. That made things worse.

1/20/01 Leaves office
9/11/01 WTCs are destroyed by same people. 3000 die.

If Clinton had gone to Afghanistan in 93, there probably wouldn't have been anything on 9/11.
There are still attacks, but the people know that the US military will come for them.

As you said, it sure would have sucked for Gore to continue in Clinton's footsteps.

[jcd11235 0]

If you will recall, Clinton took a lot of slack from conservatives about treating bin Laden like a legitimate threat. True, he didn't over-react as Bush did, but it is very plausible that had Bush kept the pressure on bin Laden when he took office, as Clinton advised as the exiting president, 9/11 would have never occurred.

Or, perhaps it would have occurred still. But, with Gore in office instead of Bush, it is probable that the US leadership would not have gone off the deep end, and would have reacted more sensibly. As it is, we've wasted hundreds of billions of dollars, and the world is less safe than it was pre-9/11.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kelpdiver 2]

there's no doubt that Clinton was more interested in, and better suited to deal with domestic concerns.

But Bush dumped Somalia on him, just as his son is dumping Iraq on whomever wins next November.

I do agree with your overall premise - that Clinton didn't do much to discourage further aggression. He should have ignored the GOP whiners (and pacifist Democrats) and opened a can of whoopass on someone to send a message. But come on - when did he ever act outside of a consensus?

[happythoughts 0]

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If you will recall, Clinton took a lot of slack from conservatives about treating bin Laden like a legitimate threat. True, he didn't over-react

Over-react? How about just react.
They tried to blow up the WTC in 93. He did nothing. They came back and succeeded.

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...had Bush kept the pressure on bin Laden when he took office, as Clinton advised as the exiting president, 9/11 would have never occurred.

Do you mean all that great "pressure" and "reacting" that Clinton did?

That is Clintons problem. He rarely did anything regarding foreign policy or proceeded to do it wrong.

Bush may have wasted a lot of money, but I cannot understand how you could think that the world is less safe. Terrorist incidents occurred every year against Americans world wide during the Clinton admin.

OBL went around blowing up anything standing during Clintons term. After each incident, Clinton promised to hunt down those responsible.

After the following incidents, what reaction do you remember ? He got on tv and promised to do something.

1993 WTC bombing. 6 dead.

1995 Saudi Arabia, 5 US military dead.

1996 Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, 19 dead
and injured 200 US military personnel.

1998 bombing of US embassies in Africa.
224 killed and injured thousands.

2000 USS Cole. killed 17 and injured 39 US sailors.

If Gore continued to do nothing, there would have been more successful US continental attacks.

[Channman 2]

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RON PAUL!

Amen!

When liberals, i.e. so called independent voter starts yelling Amen to Ron Paul, gives this conservative pause as to why.

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RON PAUL!

Amen!

When liberals, i.e. so called independent voter starts yelling Amen to Ron Paul, gives this conservative pause as to why.

Why do you think "independent voter" means liberal? Who was the last third party candidate to garner a significant percentage of the votes?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[jcd11235 0]

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They came back and succeeded.

Yes they did. Notice that they waited for a president to let America's guard down to do so.

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I cannot understand how you could think that the world is less safe.

I'm not sure how it could be viewed any other way. We created a breeding ground and recruiting poster propaganda for terrorism when we invaded Iraq, to say nothing of our ill-conceived invasion of Afghanistan.

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1993 WTC bombing. 6 dead.

1995 Saudi Arabia, 5 US military dead.

1996 Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, 19 dead
and injured 200 US military personnel.

1998 bombing of US embassies in Africa.
224 killed and injured thousands.

2000 USS Cole. killed 17 and injured 39 US sailors.

If Gore continued to do nothing, there would have been more successful US continental attacks.

Iraq War
US military deaths - 3888
US military casualties - 28451
Non-US coalition casualties - 306

Iraqis - 1,130,689

Afghan war
US military deaths - 469
Non-US coalition deaths - 274

I was unable to find estimates of total Afghan deaths from the war.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

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Who was the last third party candidate to garner a significant percentage of the votes?

Isn't Ron Paul (officially) a Republican?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[livendive 8]

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Who was the last third party candidate to garner a significant percentage of the votes?

Isn't Ron Paul (officially) a Republican?

Yes. My point of contention was that he was indicating "independent voters" are actually liberals. I think they're simply voters who don't toe a party line. Otherwise, everyone who broke Republican ranks to vote for Ross Perot is a liberal.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[KelliJ 0]

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They came back and succeeded.

Yes they did. Notice that they waited for a president to let America's guard down to do so.

That's funny!
The planning was started well in advance of the attacks while Clinton was still in office.

[billvon 2,991]

>1/20/01 Leaves office
>9/11/01 WTCs are destroyed by same people. 3000 die.

8/6/2001 - GWB receives briefing entitled "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE IN US."

Summer 2001 -George J. Tenet, who briefed Mr. Bush on threats almost daily, "was around town literally pounding on desks saying that something is happening, this is an unprecedented level of threat information." (per Armitage.)

8/6/2001 to 9/1/2001 - GWB on vacation.

9/11/2001 - Bin Laden strikes in the US and kills 3000 people.

>If Clinton had gone to Afghanistan in 93, there probably wouldn't
>have been anything on 9/11.

And just imagine what could have been prevented if Bush had taken a shorter vacation.

>As you said, it sure would have sucked for Gore to continue in
>Clinton's footsteps.

What actually _happened_ sucked a whole lot more.

[KelliJ 0]

That's putting a lot of faith in Bush's abilities to say he would have stopped the attacks had he taken a shorter vacation.
In actuality, and you should know this, when a President takes a "vacation" it is a working vacation. They are given the same briefings, have the same resources, and can do the same things they could if sitting in the Oval Office.

"What actually _happened_ sucked a whole lot more."

That's a matter of opinion. I happen to agree that what Bush did in going after OBL in Afghanistan was the right move. I also feel Gore would have done the same as Clinton...nothing. That would have only emboldened the terrorists even more and it's anyone's guess what they would have done next.