KelliJ 0 #26 December 27, 2007 Several years ago my friend's father was not afraid to go unarmed to a lunch with a business partner. Nice restaurant in an upscale part of town and all. Too bad the guy who murdered him as they ate their lunch thought otherwise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #27 December 27, 2007 Geez, wasn't the murderer afraid of being arrested? Didn't he know that Herr Daley forbade him to murder or obtain a firearm? Sorry about your friends dad being murdered while not being allowed to defend himslef in any manner he chose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #28 December 27, 2007 QuoteQuoteFunny, I drive and walk though Chicago every day (and have done for 30 years) and never needed a gun. Nor do I ever expect to. Must be sad to go through life so fearful of being attacked as you seem to be. Same here. 34 years and counting, never have needed a gun. It should also be mentioned that both Kallend and I have worked in some of the highest crime areas of Chicago during that time as well. I spent one summer living on the block that had the highest murder rate in the city (five in one week) and I STILL didn't need a gun or a knife. I've also had someone break into my car and house....yet again, never needed a gun. And honestly, if the FAA can't put fear into Daley, the NRA doesn't have a chance of ever changing that law here while he is in office. That's politics in Chicago for ya. Honest question, The block you speak of here, was the murder numbers due to gang on gang?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #29 December 27, 2007 Just disadvantaged "youths" who were manipulated by white men, and legally owned businesses. If it were not for the fact they could not get a 300k dollar a year job, they would not have had to resort to being a "small business owner" serving his community, bringing them the goods and services they so badly needed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F16Driver 0 #30 December 27, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteFinally, good citizens will be able to defend themselves and families legally. I still keep my gun on me going through Chicago. If I ever have to use it, my life depends on it. I don't care if the Chicago popo take me to jail. I'm sick of these news articles "We are a city of sheep, we're proud to be sheep, we will stay sheep." Sure didn't lower the crime in DC. BTW, BAD GUYS WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO GET GUNS. Funny, I drive and walk though Chicago every day (and have done for 30 years) and never needed a gun. Nor do I ever expect to. Must be sad to go through life so fearful of being attacked as you seem to be. bad guys will ONLY be able to get guns as long as people like you are their enablers. It must be sad to be so fearful of a malfunction that you carry a reserve.... It must be sad to be so fearful of a crash that you wear a seatbelt... It must be sad to be so fearful of a fire that you keep a fire extinguisher... Preparation != fear. Your "fear" argument is nothing but a strawman, as you well know. Thats a weak rebuttle. A reserve, a fire extinguisher and a seat belt are not designed to kill. A gun is. You are comparing apples to mangos. I disagree. A gun is made to safe lives. Specifically, MINE! I won't be a victim. Those of you that are happy being sheep, good on ya! But don't tell me I can't defend myself and my household by any means possible. I will always have guns. I will get them legally, or illegally if need be. People that think more regulations will work need to get their heads out of their ass. "I promise, I will never die." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #31 December 27, 2007 Quote Just disadvantaged "youths" who were manipulated by white men, and legally owned businesses. If it were not for the fact they could not get a 300k dollar a year job, they would not have had to resort to being a "small business owner" serving his community, bringing them the goods and services they so badly needed. "Gang on Gang"=Darwinism. To put it bluntly, "Good riddance to bad rubbish."Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #32 December 27, 2007 QuotePreparation != fear. Your "fear" argument is nothing but a strawman, as you well know. I haven't needed a gun in my entire life. I'd rather be prepared to go to the pub and being strapped would almost certainly limit my drinking opportunities. There's a fair chance that the average gun owner doesn't actually need one either, they just enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #33 December 27, 2007 QuoteQuotePreparation != fear. Your "fear" argument is nothing but a strawman, as you well know. I haven't needed a gun in my entire life. Great. Just don't fuck with my right to own/carry one.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm951 0 #34 December 27, 2007 Those who hope to ban firearms are nothing but utopian useful idiots for those who want to exert power over the rest of us. I am not one of the sheeple, I would rather be responsible for my own choices. Being responsible, I take precautions against adverse outcomes (risk management), hence I own firearms. Some are for competition, some hunting, some purely personal risk management. So if the liberals can live in a high crime area and not need a gun, well good on them. The postman is one other person who gets protection in the hood. He's the guy who brings in the welfare checks. Think I'm kidding, my dad carried mail for nearly 30 years, some of it in very bad hoods where the cops wouldn't venture. I was attacked in supposedly a good area. It doesn't matter where you live, you can be a victim at any time, like in a shopping mall or college classroom, or high school classroom. Better to be prepared than get prepared for burial. Your choice. That doesn't make me fearful, it makes me cognizant of potential problems and being prepared to deal with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #35 December 27, 2007 Quote Just disadvantaged "youths" who were manipulated by white men, and legally owned businesses. If it were not for the fact they could not get a 300k dollar a year job, they would not have had to resort to being a "small business owner" serving his community, bringing them the goods and services they so badly needed. Ah Dammit You had me going for a couple of secondsThe reason I am wondering is because those "neighborhoods" where muders are so high usually are gang areas. The other point I want to make is, in a life time, I would think anybody ever "needing" a gun for self protection would not number more than 1. And it would be that "1" time, that would give one the rest of thier life. I personally have only wished I had a gun one time in my life. Fortunately for me I recognized the situation I was in, and I was (luckily), able to avoid needing said gun. I still wished I had one had my luck not held out. I have vowed never to be in that situation again and, to those spinners of my words, if I had had a gun, I would have worked just as hard to avoid the situation."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #36 December 27, 2007 QuoteHonest question, The block you speak of here, was the murder numbers due to gang on gang? The drivebys were gang related, not everyone that died was in a gang. On another note, my Uncle was shot dead in a bar in Chicago as well. Owning a weapon wouldn't have stopped him getting shot in the back. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time as a bar fight went really bad. And from my understanding, the guy who shot the gun is out on the street now._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #37 December 27, 2007 Oh I am sure he is sorryHe should have been executed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #38 December 27, 2007 QuoteQuote RIIGGHHT - I bet some Chinese military dude a millenium ago thought "lets invent something to propel stuff at high velocity". And just incidentally, as a by-product, they used it to kill their enemies. They also used it to make firecrackers, which are used in all sorts of celebrations. Guns are used to make firecrackers?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #39 December 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteHonest question, The block you speak of here, was the murder numbers due to gang on gang? The drivebys were gang related, not everyone that died was in a gang. On another note, my Uncle was shot dead in a bar in Chicago as well. Owning a weapon wouldn't have stopped him getting shot in the back. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time as a bar fight went really bad. And from my understanding, the guy who shot the gun is out on the street now. I am not sure you realize it but you have made my point. While carrying will never help everyone, why shouldnt everyone that wants too "carry" have a chance to defend themselves? Despite the rhetoric of kallend, those who choose to get a license to carry are not criminals. I am very sorry about your uncle. My uncle lives today in Oak Park. I have spent alot of time in Chicago (years ago) I know how "real" Chicago can be."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #40 December 28, 2007 Quote While carrying will never help everyone, why shouldnt everyone that wants too "carry" have a chance to defend themselves? Despite the rhetoric of kallend, MOST OF those who choose to get a license to carry are not criminals. . Fixed it. And the reason that not "everyone" should have a chance is that "everyone" includes criminals, the mentally unstable, and the plain irresponsible who allow criminals access to their weapons or otherwise fail to properly safeguard them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #41 December 28, 2007 QuoteQuote While carrying will never help everyone, why shouldnt everyone that wants too "carry" have a chance to defend themselves? Despite the rhetoric of kallend, MOST OF those who choose to get a license to carry are not criminals. . Fixed it. And the reason that not "everyone" should have a chance is that "everyone" includes criminals, the mentally unstable, and the plain irresponsible who allow criminals access to their weapons or otherwise fail to properly safeguard them. Vast majority then........."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #42 December 28, 2007 It can be USED to end a life - it can also be used for target shooting, for self-defense, etc... just because you HAVE one does NOT mean it has to used to kill - THAT is where your analogy breaks down. Do I need to post the link to the guncam again? It *must* be broken, since it's not out running the streets killing people!! I'll say it one last time, in caps so you don't miss it: IT IS THE *USER* OF A TOOL THAT DECIDES THE *USE* OF THAT TOOL.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #43 December 30, 2007 I would rather have my gun and not need it than need it and not have it...in fact I would greatly perfer to NEVER have to use it, but it's there if I do. Illinois in general is an extremely restrictive state regarding gun laws. They ban citizens from owning silencers, machineguns and AOWs, basically no NFA items are allowed. I'm happy to be in Tennessee where we have a state law requiring CLEO to sign any NFA paperwork that is presented to them as long as the citizen can legally own the item. I recently took my NFA paperwork for a silencer to the CLEO and was in and out in about 15 minutes... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #44 December 30, 2007 Congratulations on living in a free state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #45 December 31, 2007 Sarcasm? I live her because I was born here by luck. However, I would move if born in a state with gun/NFA laws like CA, IL, MA, MO, or NY. The second amendment says the RIGHT to keep AND BEAR arms SHALL NOT be infringed. What part of SHALL NOT do they not understand??? As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #46 December 31, 2007 All of it. The politicians want to preserve only their own rights, and take away ours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #47 December 31, 2007 Quote The second amendment says the RIGHT to keep AND BEAR arms SHALL NOT be infringed. What part of SHALL NOT do they not understand??? I think you missed an important clause.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 5 #48 December 31, 2007 DO NOT... and I mean this you guys, but do not take this the wrong way,... however your statement Quote Congratulations on living in a free state. is not correct brother warped... What I mean is that if a LAC (law abiding citizen) has to trade info (register) with CLEO, LEO or any form of gvt, then he/she is NOT living in a "FREE" state... YES Tn. is more FREE'er (liberal?) than Illinois, California etc, but it is NOT "truely~free" in the sense HOW We the People interpet and understand what the intent of our nations founding documents and the ideas behind those documents meant. this is and can be a very tricky arguement because SUPPOSEDLY there are 50 "INDIVIDUAL STATES", but they ALL fall under the not suppose to be bigger entity federal gvt rule. Think about it like this, individual states have their set of laws but ALSO HAVE to to follow federal laws! If the POTUS declares "martiallaw", then where is the FREEDOM of the individual states right and that of the PEOPLE of those states? I could own a Class3 in Illinois if I want to pay a TAX and have my name recorded with state and the feds... I cant USE that item in my state, but I can own one! YES YES... I have to have a FOID to buy ammo above subsonic, (including a pellet gun that shoots above 863fps??? help me hear gurus of speed) and the weapons that fire them and ALL that is documented, which by the way is EXACTLY what Benji said and MEANT.... (something like this) " if those who would give up some freedom(s) to have a little safety, then they deserve niether freedom nor safety"... but it wasnt just about guns, it is a broad statement that encompases OUR COLLECTIVE yet INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS of a people! It is what some peeps and sheeps call a "grey area" of interpitation... I will stand corrected if need be....added this; I got off topic! sorry, but since we have been talking civil liberties to day, tonite, this farking morning.... lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #49 December 31, 2007 Seems to me that you make a very good case for having a more uniform set of laws.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #50 December 31, 2007 Quote Seems to me that you make a very good case for having a more uniform set of laws. Uniform? yes I can live with that. As restrictive as you would want? I dont think so"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
