National Academy of Sciences takes a stand

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Teaching little Jimmy how to put a condom on a banana so he can stick it to Jill doesn't seem to cause a constitutional crisis,

OK, let's see:

Guns don't cause crime, but condoms cause sex?

I'm going to need to write all this down.

Speed Racer
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[rushmc 23]

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Sure, split hairs.

Don't see how that's splitting hairs. It's simply putting things in their right places. Creationism and Intelligent Design are not science, no matter how you contort it. They're religion. Religion should be taught in religion classrooms, not science classrooms. Health class. What should be taught in there, if not health? People whose parents don't teach very well still need to know that gonorrhea might make 'em infertile. AIDS might make 'em die, and syphilis might make 'em insane before they die. But they can protect themselves from all of these things.

I teach teenagers about safe sex just about every day in clinic. And ya' know what? It's one area where parents do NOT have the right to know what their teenagers talked about with their doctors. Any teenager can go to his/her doctor and get the skinny on sex and the physician cannot tell their parents unless the child gives consent. That's cool, imho.

WELL THEN, I am glad YOU have more power over what MY children learn than I

FUCKING NOT!!!

This is a Liberal view that has to be stopped

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,500]

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No, on you for saying it's establishing a religion...as it patently is NOT.

I didn't say that.

(Looking back though I can see that what I wrote was ambiguous - what I meant by saying that creationism/ID was an establishment of a specific religion was that creationism/ID is a tenet of a specific religion.)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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No, on you for saying it's establishing a religion...as it patently is NOT.

I didn't say that.

(Looking back though I can see that what I wrote was ambiguous - what I meant by saying that creationism/ID was an establishment of a specific religion was that creationism/ID is a tenet of a specific religion.)

Then what the hell did you imply???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lindsey 0]

FUCKING NOT!!!

Well, "fucking yes," it's how it is. If your child comes to my office to talk about sex, it is my job to give her good medical advice. It is also against the law for me to tell you ANYTHING that we talked about, unless she gives consent. AND I can give her contraceptives without your consent. AND I can't even tell you that without her consent.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[jakee 1,500]

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Then what the hell did you imply???

Creationism/ID is a tenet of a specific religion. It is not scientific, and teaching it in a science class (or presenting it as a valid theory in any class without balancing it by presenting information an any other religious creation story) is respecting an establishment (tenet) of religion.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[n23x 0]

First and foremost, let's clear this one up:

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You, are a US citezen. jakee is not so I really dont care what he thinks about the US

Refusing to debate or consider someone's standing based off of their residence is pretty ridiculous. Then again, I think the same thing about texans, so to each their own.

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Now, creationism is taught in schools.

Where is creationism taught in schools? Further, is this in a majority of US schools, or a small subset?

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I RESENT the people think the schools should teach my children about sex and protection. That is to my "education" comment.

That's fine that you resent it, but it is a legitimate practice to be taught in schools. You speak about it as if they're talking about sex like, "and here's how you do the reverse cowgirl, which makes it easy to transition back to a 69". All I remember from it was rolling a condom on a banana and then looking at pictures of STDs forever.

Sex Ed in health class doesn't promote sex, or immorality. It promotes an understanding of what can cause STD's and pregnancies. Condoms are probably the cheapest, most widespread, EFFECTIVE way to prevent pregnancy and some STD's. What's wrong with saying, "don't do it, but if you do, be safe"?

On top of that, back when I had sex ed in health, parents could opt of out their students being involved.

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....and the rulings (as they are currently today) of the seperation of church and state and not even close to what the founders intended.

You're right. We have much more intermingling of the two than our forefathers ever intended. What is your interpretation of what they meant by "a complete separation of church and state"?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[rushmc 23]

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FUCKING NOT!!!

Well, "fucking yes," it's how it is. If your child comes to my office to talk about sex, it is my job to give her good medical advice. It is also against the law for me to tell you ANYTHING that we talked about, unless she gives consent. AND I can give her contraceptives without your consent. AND I can't even tell you that without her consent.

IF THEY ARE UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE THIS IS PART OF WHAT IS FUCKING BULL SHIT!!!!! You and your liberal I can fuck who I want to fuck liberal mind set bull shit are part of what will destroy this country if it is allowed to happen. I will fight you with every fiber of my being to make sure this does not continue.

This attitude is a disease on this county and if you truly belive this should be the norm screw you. Prepare for a war

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Has nothing to do with interpetation. It has to do with the Constitution. Quite simple.


Nobody has a right (under any law) to teach my children what is moral or not moral.

If YOU want a school to teach those concepts then YOU choose the school. I sure as hell do not want any STATE school to teach any of that to my children

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lindsey 0]

Funny. I tell you what the law is, and you go off on me as though I made the law. I didn't even tell you whether I agree with it or not. You might want to find out who you're fighting with every fiber of your being before you decide to shoot me in my sleep or something. There's something to be said for keeping your cool....

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[n23x 0]

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IF THEY ARE UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE THIS IS PART OF WHAT IS FUCKING BULL SHIT!!!!! You and your liberal I can fuck who I want to fuck liberal mind set bull shit are part of what will destroy this country if it is allowed to happen. I will fight you with every fiber of my being to make sure this does not continue.

This attitude is a disease on this county and if you truly belive this should be the norm screw you. Prepare for a war

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

How old are your kids? What have YOU told them about sex?

Are you just pissed because some relative went out and got knocked up at 15 because NOBODY explained anything to her since she "wasn't ready to have sex"?

There is obviously some event that is driving this fury towards sex education. Care to share?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[Tink1717 2]

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Little confused as to how the teaching of intelligent design in a classroom becomes a constitutional matter.

Because, "Creation Science", and it's derivative, "Intelligent Design" are religion. Religion, any religion, can't be taught in the public schools. When the schools teach the dogma of a given religion, they advocating that religion. The government, in any form, can't advocate for, or against, a religion. This is barred by the first amendment. The strict interpretation of the establishment clause of the first amendment was established by the "Lemon Test" Lemon v. Kurtzman, 1971) and reads:. "First, the statute must have a secular legislative purpose; second, its principle or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion, finally, the statute must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion."

This is why religion may never be taught in the public schools. Unless or until, the Lemon case is reversed OR the first amendment is repealed ay and all forms of religion masquerading as science will fail as a public school curriculum.

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What happen to the Freedom of Ideas which is so important in the class room?

The freedom of ideas, as well as the freedom of inquiry, are only preserved as long as religion is kept out of the discussion.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[rushmc 23]

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Funny. I tell you what the law is, and you go off on me as though I made the law. I didn't even tell you whether I agree with it or not. You might want to find out who you're fighting with every fiber of your being before you decide to shoot me in my sleep or something. There's something to be said for keeping your cool....

If you agree with it then I am fighting with you

Has nothing to do with keeping ones cool. It has to do what what is right.

And if you want to take a topic to shooting someone then you are once again full of shit. You can sleep well

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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IF THEY ARE UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE THIS IS PART OF WHAT IS FUCKING BULL SHIT!!!!! You and your liberal I can fuck who I want to fuck liberal mind set bull shit are part of what will destroy this country if it is allowed to happen. I will fight you with every fiber of my being to make sure this does not continue.

This attitude is a disease on this county and if you truly belive this should be the norm screw you. Prepare for a war

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

How old are your kids? What have YOU told them about sex?

Are you just pissed because some relative went out and got knocked up at 15 because NOBODY explained anything to her since she "wasn't ready to have sex"?

There is obviously some event that is driving this fury towards sex education. Care to share?

.jim

What the hell are you smoking? To make this kind of leap is so nuts I dont even know where to begin

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lindsey 0]

And if you want to take a topic to shooting someone then you are once again full of shit. You can sleep well

Well, you tell me to "prepare for war," and I can't help but think of being shot with all these gun threads going on....

If you agree with it then I am fighting with you

Whether I, personally, agree with it or not is beside the point. No matter whose daughter comes to me with clap, I'll take care of her. I'll call the health department too, but I won't call her parents without her written consent.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[rushmc 23]

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And if you want to take a topic to shooting someone then you are once again full of shit. You can sleep well

Well, you tell me to "prepare for war," and I can't help but think of being shot with all these gun threads going on....

If you agree with it then I am fighting with you

Whether I, personally, agree with it or not is beside the point. No matter whose daughter comes to me with clap, I'll take care of her. I'll call the health department too, but I won't call her parents without her written consent.

Well then, you are once agon full of it. I have 2 sons

IF I did have daughter I would still be fighting your "I know better than you what is good for them" bull shit

Screw your attitude

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lindsey 0]

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Well then, you are once agon full of it. I have 2 sons

I would also treat your sons for clap if they came to me with that complaint.

You still don't have the first clue about my thoughts on this....but you say I'm full of shit. That's very reasonable of you.

Do you value people following the law? If I were to search your posts, would I find that you condemn people who don't follow the law. What do you do when you don't agree with a law? What if your child were to sue me for telling you he had gonorrhea? He'd win if I, indeed, had told you without his consent. Would you say I got what I deserved???? Or would you thank me for breaking the law (in this one instance, of course) in order to do what was *right.*

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[rushmc 23]

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Well then, you are once agon full of it. I have 2 sons

I would also treat your sons for clap if they came to me with that complaint.

You still don't have the first clue about my thoughts on this....but you say I'm full of shit. That's very reasonable of you.

Do you value people following the law? If I were to search your posts, would I find that you condemn people who don't follow the law. What do you do when you don't agree with a law? What if your child were to sue me for telling you he had gonorrhea? He'd win if I, indeed, had told you without his consent. Would you say I got what I deserved???? Or would you thank me for breaking the law (in this one instance, of course) in order to do what was *right.*

linz

IT IS NOT YOUR CALL

Your liberal 'I know what is best' bull shit is showing.

The law is FUCKED UP.. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Is it? Should it be public knowledge that person "A" has been institutionalized for addiction problems, while person "B" has been treated for cirrhosis and chlamydia?

Patient privacy laws extend to ALL patients.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

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Well then, you are once agon full of it. I have 2 sons

I would also treat your sons for clap if they came to me with that complaint.

You still don't have the first clue about my thoughts on this....but you say I'm full of shit. That's very reasonable of you.

Do you value people following the law? If I were to search your posts, would I find that you condemn people who don't follow the law. What do you do when you don't agree with a law? What if your child were to sue me for telling you he had gonorrhea? He'd win if I, indeed, had told you without his consent. Would you say I got what I deserved???? Or would you thank me for breaking the law (in this one instance, of course) in order to do what was *right.*

linz

The "law" as you quote it is what is fucked up. You have the "Law" supporting your position and you think that GIVES you a position.

My children are mine, not yours, and if they are under 18 years if age YOU have no right to give then ANY kind of medical treatment or advice without my consent . FUCK what the law says. Try it here and I will sue your ass

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lindsey 0]

IT IS NOT YOUR CALL

Your liberal 'I know what is best' bull shit is showing.

The law is FUCKED UP.. If you can see that then you are part of the problem.

It's funny. I think I've been called "neo-con" at least as often as I've been called "liberal." In reality I'm neither. Truth is, as far as this particular topic goes, there are times that I'm thankful to be protected by the law and am able to give kids whose parents couldn't care less some information. There are other times that I try my best to get parents involved without breaking confidentiality.

Regardless of my position, though, I'll not set myself up for being sued over this issue. You're right. It is NOT my call. In this instance, my job is all spelled out for me. It's really much simpler than many ethical issues that come up every week. The law tells me pretty precisely what I can and cannot say to parents in regards to their children's healthcare.

You can yell and scream at me all you want. Call me whatever makes you feel better. You'll probably be wrong, though.

You didn't answer my question about whether you value people following the law, whether it was a law the person agreed with or not. Do you? Do you value people breaking the law when they think the law is wrong? It's a real question. I'm wondering what your answer is.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[rushmc 23]

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Is it? Should it be public knowledge that person "A" has been institutionalized for addiction problems, while person "B" has been treated for cirrhosis and chlamydia?

Patient privacy laws extend to ALL patients.

I think I agree with you if I am following you. But, if you think a child under leagal age should have those rights when considering thier parents then we disagree

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lindsey 0]

FUCK what the law says. Try it here and I will sue your ass


If it concerns STD's, pregnancy, sexual issues, then you'd lose.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[mnealtx 0]

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Is it? Should it be public knowledge that person "A" has been institutionalized for addiction problems, while person "B" has been treated for cirrhosis and chlamydia?

Patient privacy laws extend to ALL patients.

I think I agree with you if I am following you. But, if you think a child under leagal age should have those rights when considering thier parents then we disagree

I agree that it is odd that a hospital has to have parental permission to treat a minor, but a school nurse, social clinic or abortion clinic does not.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

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IT IS NOT YOUR CALL

Your liberal 'I know what is best' bull shit is showing.

The law is FUCKED UP.. If you can see that then you are part of the problem.

It's funny. I think I've been called "neo-con" at least as often as I've been called "liberal." In reality I'm neither. Truth is, as far as this particular topic goes, there are times that I'm thankful to be protected by the law and am able to give kids whose parents couldn't care less some information. There are other times that I try my best to get parents involved without breaking confidentiality.

Regardless of my position, though, I'll not set myself up for being sued over this issue. You're right. It is NOT my call. In this instance, my job is all spelled out for me. It's really much simpler than many ethical issues that come up every week. The law tells me pretty precisely what I can and cannot say to parents in regards to their children's healthcare.

You can yell and scream at me all you want. Call me whatever makes you feel better. You'll probably be wrong, though.

You didn't answer my question about whether you value people following the law, whether it was a law the person agreed with or not. Do you? Do you value people breaking the law when they think the law is wrong? It's a real question. I'm wondering what your answer is.

In this case the law is irrealvant (for the case of this discussion) because what is right is right. YOU should not have the power to deal with my under age children as you see fit when is comes to sex or birth control.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln