National Academy of Sciences takes a stand

[n23x 0]

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All that, combined with parents that don't give a fuck,I am not one and it is still not excuse or are

So do you propose punishing parents that cannot provide their children with a certain level of support or education in the home? What about parents whose kids become pregnant at a young age? How would you make parents responsible?

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There were 50 in my sons class

That's great for you. BUT,

Of the 6 highschools local to where I live, 3 have more students than my university, undergrad and grad combined. Your sons' school does NOT represent the average public school. Do you think that your sons' school and those highschools have a similar teacher/student ratio? What about annual budget per student? What about administration to handle a simple call to each student's family?

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I am only bothered by your araogance regarding the topic of parental rights

Well, when I'm right, I'm right. Isn't that right?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[rushmc 23]

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All that, combined with parents that don't give a fuck,I am not one and it is still not excuse or are

So do you propose punishing parents that cannot provide their children with a certain level of support or education in the home? What about parents whose kids become pregnant at a young age? How would you make parents responsible?

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There were 50 in my sons class

That's great for you. BUT,

Of the 6 highschools local to where I live, 3 have more students than my university, undergrad and grad combined. Your sons' school does NOT represent the average public school. Do you think that your sons' school and those highschools have a similar teacher/student ratio? What about annual budget per student? What about administration to handle a simple call to each student's family?

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I am only bothered by your araogance regarding the topic of parental rights

Well, when I'm right, I'm right. Isn't that right?

.jim

And we are still looking for "when" now arent we

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[maadmax 0]

What a crazy thread. I would think the teaching of correct information concerning sex and science would be a good thing. But I can see how a philosophical/spiritual problem could arise if the instructor failed to give a proper moral framework on how to use the biological and scientific information.

[n23x 0]

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And we are still looking for "when" now arent we

I'm not. The when is in the now, man.
Care to respond to any of the very reasonable responses I took time to write?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[billvon 3,008]

>Because I knew who was teaching it and how it was taught

Good! Sounds like the system worked exactly as it's supposed to.

[rushmc 23]

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And we are still looking for "when" now arent we

I'm not. The when is in the now, man.
Care to respond to any of the very reasonable responses I took time to write?

.jim

I already have, you choose to look at things differently, while this is your choice it does not make you correct

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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>Because I knew who was teaching it and how it was taught

Good! Sounds like the system worked exactly as it's supposed to.

Talk about an oversimplification

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Channman 2]

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If a minor child was to go to their school clinic and advise the nurse they were pregnant and wanted to seek advice on terminating the pregnancy. (1) Can the school without the parents involvement / notification transport said minor to a clinic where the abortion could be preformed?

(2) If said child was to develop serious complications during the night and fearing to inform their parents died of blood loss during the night. Could the school district, Nurse, Clinic be held responsible for the death as well as civil libility for providing medical treatment to a minor without parential consent?

That's a creature of state law, and each state may be different.

How does your home state of Ca. handle these two questions?

[funjumper101 15]

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FUCKING NOT!!!

Well, "fucking yes," it's how it is. If your child comes to my office to talk about sex, it is my job to give her good medical advice. It is also against the law for me to tell you ANYTHING that we talked about, unless she gives consent. AND I can give her contraceptives without your consent. AND I can't even tell you that without her consent.

IF THEY ARE UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE THIS IS PART OF WHAT IS FUCKING BULL SHIT!!!!! You and your liberal I can fuck who I want to fuck liberal mind set bull shit are part of what will destroy this country if it is allowed to happen. I will fight you with every fiber of my being to make sure this does not continue.

This attitude is a disease on this county and if you truly belive this should be the norm screw you. Prepare for a war

I am engaged in the cultural war you speak of. Narrow minded conservatives are ripping this country apart. Rotten to the core, with the best of intentions. Smart folks must fight the ignorant. As it ever was...

If a person is under 18, do you believe that the parents have complete and total ownership of that person?
The right to say what that person can and cannot learn?
Who and what that person can and cannot believe?
Does this "ownership" translate into any meaningful restrictions as to what the parents can and can not do?
How do the restrictions come about?

Why do you think that a person has no rights at all for the first 6412 days of their life?

Indentured servitude, and forced apprenticeships used to be one way that parents got troublesome children to "make something of themselves". Sounds pretty good to me. When can we start this again? Or are these practices and customs no longer legal? Why were they made illegal? The parents agreed to the terms. What was the problem? Parental rights are superior, aren't they? Why did the government have to get involved?

Stinking liberals always see shades of grey when the issue is clearly black and white.
Parental rights trump children's rights in every case, no matter what.

Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up.

Hey Marc,

How come you didn't answer any of my questions?

Too much for you?

Too challenging?

Do they make you think about things from an uncomfortable perspective?

I think that is is because you find yourself defending the indefensable.

The point that I clearly made is that children have rights. They are not chattel, owned totally and completely by their parents. They can't be sold or bartered. They can't be forced into being little automatons by their parents, no matter how hard the parents try. Willfully keeping children ignorant about critical health matters is a horrible form of child abuse.

The question I really want an answer to is "What positive social change has come about from conservative philosophy?".

There are plenty of examples of progressive philosophy bringing about positive social change. Two perfect examples are women's suffrage (the right to vote) in the early part of this century and the civil rights movement that started after WWII.

Can you provide any examples of how conservative philosophy has positively impacted the USA?

Didn't think so...

You and your conservative bretheren have done a fine job of ruining the USA. In my lifetime the USA will become a second rate world power, much like the UK after WWII. And the sheeple will be wondering what the hell happened.

[funjumper101 15]

[jakee 1,500]

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I'm still waiting to hear why sex-ed is 'anti-religious'.

it is not if taught in the right context. One of responcibiltiy and consequenses

Ok then. How is it ever anti-religious. In what ways do you think it is being taught that would make it anti-religious?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,008]

>Talk about an oversimplification

Are you claiming the system DIDN'T work like you wanted it to?

[Nightingale 0]

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...No, but I do disaprove of someone else teaching my kids about it. That is my job. You want to give away that responsibility fine, Just dont ask me to do it because that is what YOU think is OK.

.jim

This all boils down to being responsible. It is very simple

[billvon 3,008]

>Law or no law, kids with a good relationship with their parents will talk
> to them, and kids who don't trust their parents won't go to them and will
>explore other options.

Ay, there's the rub. Ideally the law would read "good parents should always be notified of any medical procedure performed on their child that involves xxxxx . . ." But of course there's no way to legally quantify "good parents." So often we err on the side of protecting children with poor/abusive parents.

[Amazon 7]

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If the kid genuinely feels that they can't go to mom or dad, I'd rather they go to a good clinic or hospital rather than some hack with a coat-hanger or get bad advice from their friends in the locker room.

That is all well and good but when you have a SIGNFICANT number of families out there who limit sex education to......" The wages of sin are death"

It is no wonder that so many " good little christian girls " end up being the wild ones... kinda like the Preachers daughter in Charlies Wilson's War.

Sex to them is sin.. only for procreation.. but ONLY within the sanctimony of marriage.....marriages that fail in significant numbers every year. BUT then there is always the Good "christians" who engage in serial monogamy within the confies of the sanctity of marriage

[mnealtx 0]

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You and your conservative bretheren have done a fine job of ruining the USA. In my lifetime the USA will become a second rate world power, much like the UK after WWII. And the sheeple will be wondering what the hell happened.

Oh, please... spare me the melodrama, ok? If you truly can't see that both sides of the aisle are responsible for the mess we're in, then I feel sorry for you.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Remster 30]

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If you truly can't see that both sides of the aisle are responsible for the mess we're in

I knew you werent a lost cause!

Remster

[rushmc 23]

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You want me to by default give up my rights. Sorry, that is wrong. As I have stated before one of the attempts of a school here was to send the permission forms home with the child. If they did not get it back it was infered you agreed to let them attend. This was not by acident it was by those who think like you do

From what you write, it appears that you have some serious issues with sex and it's role in a normal healthy human being.Then you would be terribly wrong What happened to you?Nothing more or less that what happened to you I guess What a stupid statement

Why do you think that parents should have to "opt in" for sex ed?Because I am the parent

Do you support the concept of "opting in" for English and Math class? How about Science and P.E.?Another stupid assumption ?

What makes sex ed so different, in your view?What difference does it make to you? I am not trying to force my position on you. I am just trying to protect my own

Why do you think that you (as a parent) have the right to keep your child from classes in basic knowlege needed to be an informed citizen?Where did I say that? You must have many mirrors of your own

In my opinion, anyone who is too uptight to let a school teach basics to a student is NEVER going to be able to discuss the issues with their child.

Good thing that when it comes to this subject I dont give a squirt about your absurd assumptions

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[funjumper101 15]

What positive social change has come about from conservative philosophy?

Simple question. Why don't you answer it? Surely you must have many examples...

WRT to opting in for basic education for students, you make a massive distinction between sex ed and other forms of education. Your authority on this matter is self proclaimed "because I am the parent", as though that confers on you some magical power to be the sole judge of what curriculm will be taught to your kids. I point out that your absolute statements can be extended far beyond what you intend. You don't get the point at all.
What is to stop another parent from claiming the right to "opt in" to curriculm such as Algebra or English Lit? After all, learning abstract thinking skills and being exposed to bad stuff like Shakespeare and John Steinbeck might expose a kid to outside influences that the parent strongly opposes. You call this a "stupid assumption". I call it a logical and reasonable extension of your philosophy, applied in a way so as to expose the philosophy in full.

Being a parent doesn't make you the sole abiter of what curriculm will be taught to your child in a public school.

What exactly would you be protecting your own from? Factual information, presented in a format and setting the kids are used to?

Basic human physiology, including reproductive organs and the risks of using them, need to part of the basic stuff taught to every single student. Just like reading, writing, and basic math. Part of the skills needed to function effectively in society.

[mnealtx 0]

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If you truly can't see that both sides of the aisle are responsible for the mess we're in

I knew you werent a lost cause!

I'm sure there will be several to vehemently disagree with you, since I like to point out that the Dems are equally a bunch of shitbags as the Republicans...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

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What positive social change has come about from conservative philosophy?

Simple question. Why don't you answer it? Surely you must have many examples...

WRT to opting in for basic education for students, you make a massive distinction between sex ed and other forms of education. Your authority on this matter is self proclaimed "because I am the parent", as though that confers on you some magical power to be the sole judge of what curriculm will be taught to your kids. I point out that your absolute statements can be extended far beyond what you intend. You don't get the point at all.
What is to stop another parent from claiming the right to "opt in" to curriculm such as Algebra or English Lit? After all, learning abstract thinking skills and being exposed to bad stuff like Shakespeare and John Steinbeck might expose a kid to outside influences that the parent strongly opposes. You call this a "stupid assumption". I call it a logical and reasonable extension of your philosophy, applied in a way so as to expose the philosophy in full.

Being a parent doesn't make you the sole abiter of what curriculm will be taught to your child in a public school.

What exactly would you be protecting your own from? Factual information, presented in a format and setting the kids are used to?

Basic human physiology, including reproductive organs and the risks of using them, need to part of the basic stuff taught to every single student. Just like reading, writing, and basic math. Part of the skills needed to function effectively in society.

I should have known you and your liberalness know best. Sorry I replied. ....but since I did......

BTW, all the questions you ask can not get an honest answer because of the (I know best mentality) left slant you framed them under..

Do you want to talk about liberal PC correcteness damage? How about the social damage caused "tollerance" that your side preaches but does not live by? And it is because of "progressive" (I love that code word) idealogy that allowes sex to be sold to our kids on TV and the media under the gise of free speech. Oh that is one to love.

So, dont fall toooooooooooooo far from your high horse. You got nothing soft to land on.

All I have talked about is being able to raise my kids the way I as a parent want to. I dont care how you raise yours. All I want is some level of control of how what is taught to my kids. All I want is to not have you give my kids condoms cause we all know they are going to screw. You want to tell me how and what dont you. YOU attack my ideology??? WAFJ

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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What positive social change has come about from conservative philosophy?

You still did not answer the question....

Lets phrase it this way...just what are you"conservatives" Conserving??

[rushmc 23]

It is also easy to post your shit while remaining unknown too

ah, what is your name? oh yah..... ..Ferd Berfel

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[n23x 0]

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All I want is some level of control of how what is taught to my kids.

No, you seem to want absolute control over what is taught to your kids. Not some.

Not only that, but you think the default should be to keep young adults from being educated with regard to their bodies and health considerations that will certainly affect them at some point in their life.

On a side note, how many people know cath... er, just families with like 10 kids? Is that a sign that the rhythm method works?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[mnealtx 0]

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No, you seem to want absolute control over what is taught to your kids. Not some.

*Devil's Advocate*

Since WHEN is it the STATE'S responsibility and not the parents??? When parents can sue the State (and win) for the shitty education that their kid gets, or when the STATE is held responsible for the kid being out of school, I'll change my mind. Until then, it *IS* the parent's right to decide - for good or bad.

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On a side note, how many people know cath... er, just families with like 10 kids? Is that a sign that the rhythm method works?

*Devil's Advocate*

Don't know - can you prove how MANY of those families are using the rythym method?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706