Stop Shoving Christianity Down My Throat

[Hausse 0]

I have to agree that the sweet fuking jesus might have been miss placed.
I am probably different because I'm coming from Switzerland with an atheistic background.

[rushmc 23]

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With that said - I see the people being "offended by religion" to be much more militant and in-your-face about it than the people supposedly doing the offended.

Then I think in this you are blinded.

Where are the atheist TV stations?simple, they cant make it it a free market Where are the politicians proclaiming their atheism to pander votes?Because it is a very minor group, not enough votes Which prominent atheists get invited onto public policy panels? Which atheists are telling religious people that they're all communists and can't possibly have any vestige of patriotism, morality or respect for the rule of law without being an atheist?

what are laws based on? Atheists dogma?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,535]

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I took some training made available by my company that dealt with differences in the currently living generations. I understand where you are coming from.(an in some respects why) In many cases (not necessarily all the points you make here) I do not agree with you but I respect and understand where you are coming from and why. I would like to see you take a class like this so you could understand (and maybe show some fucking respect of) where I am coming from

OK, I apologise.

I am just absolutely stunned that you think the 'moral' changes I listed above are actually lowerings of the 'moral' standard. Do you honestly think that?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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I have to agree that the sweet fuking jesus might have been miss placed.
I am probably different because I'm coming from Switzerland with an atheistic background.

And I, personally have no problem with your choices or beliefs. Why do you (seem) to have so much of a problem with the US and my beliefs?

(If I have misread you I am sorry.)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,535]

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what are laws based on?

What makes a society work.

Please don't tell me that someone is going to (again) try and make out that western judicial systems are derived from the 10 commandments 'cos I gotta tell ya, I'm all laughed out on that one.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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what are laws based on?

What makes a society work.

Please don't tell me that someone is going to (again) try and make out that western judicial systems are derived from the 10 commandments 'cos I gotta tell ya, I'm all laughed out on that one.

Well then, you just exposed yourself

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,535]

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Well then, you just exposed yourself

I can assure you my fly is firmly zipped at this moment.

What are you talking about?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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Well then, you just exposed yourself

I can assure you my fly is firmly zipped at this moment.

What are you talking about?

Review your post to which I replied.

Then, You tell me on what the basic laws of both countries are based.

Chicken?, Egg? It doesnt matter what came first. On what, are out laws based?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Hausse 0]

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I have to agree that the sweet fuking jesus might have been miss placed.
I am probably different because I'm coming from Switzerland with an atheistic background.

And I, personally have no problem with your choices or beliefs. Why do you (seem) to have so much of a problem with the US and my beliefs?

(If I have misread you I am sorry.)

First off I really like the US and I'm glad that I'm given the chance to live over here.
I do not have a problem with you chosing to be religious but I still think you are wrong and since this is a discussion I try to show you why I think so.

[jakee 1,535]

I already did. They're based on what works, or rather, what makes a democratic, (hopefully) non-totalitarian state work.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

Hey man, I am sorry, but I am so lost in this discussion I do not even know what to ask so.

Where am I wrong? (in your opinion)

If I am being dense tonight I apologize

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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I already did. They're based on what works, or rather, what makes a democratic, (hopefully) non-totalitarian state work.

Ah yes, buzz words and bull shit. Saying this way makes it seem that your position is non-debatable.

Now I am the one laughing

Care to get specific? then a conversation can be had other wise? well please, continue to amuse me

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

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I already did. They're based on what works, or rather, what makes a democratic, (hopefully) non-totalitarian state work.

That does not prove nor disprove that the law did NOT originate in religious principles, however.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,535]

Y'know rush, I've been asked to take it easy on you, but I think I'd be doing us all a disservice if I didn't point out this kind of hypocrisy;

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I do not agree with you but I respect and understand where you are coming from and why...

I am glad it is all so easy for you. Someday, when you mature, I would like to revisit your post with you.

Within 4 posts of each other dude! Yeah, a real Mr Respect you are

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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Y'know rush, I've been asked to take it easy on you, but I think I'd be doing us all a disservice if I didn't point out this kind of hypocrisy;

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I do not agree with you but I respect and understand where you are coming from and why...

I am glad it is all so easy for you. Someday, when you mature, I would like to revisit your post with you.

Within 4 posts of each other dude! Yeah, a real Mr Respect you are

Ok, point taken but, there is only so much I can take too dude.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Hausse 0]

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Hey man, I am sorry, but I am so lost in this discussion I do not even know what to ask so.

Where am I wrong? (in your opinion)

If I am being dense tonight I apologize

You mean next to the whole god thing?

[rushmc 23]

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Hey man, I am sorry, but I am so lost in this discussion I do not even know what to ask so.

Where am I wrong? (in your opinion)

If I am being dense tonight I apologize

You mean next to the whole god thing?

Oh dam, nice job

Great way to lighten up the thread!!!! Nice job

But, I was really asking. Even if too broad, please find a single point to discuss. Your perspective interests me

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,535]

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Ah yes, buzz words and bull shit.

Buzz words? 'Works' - 'Democratic' - yeah, how meaningless

Legal systems of western nations are based on a compromise between law and order and freedom. What must be retained is retained (murder, theft, fraud, perjury etc. etc.) and what is unneccesarily restrictive is discarded (laws against adultery, and other moral crimes). A very large amount of discarded prohibitions are religious in nature.

We are left with a legal system based largely on (quite surprisingly) common sense. People can't go around killing each other, or robbing each other and still expect to live in a functioning society. I challenge you to say to me (with a straight face) that no one ever thought these things were wrong until a 500 year old bloke with a beard climbed down off a mountain carrying two massive carved stones.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,535]

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That does not prove nor disprove that the law did NOT originate in religious principles, however.

SO? Rush put forward the assertion that they did. Lets let him or someone who agrees with him prove it. Show me that no-one ever thought murder or theft or perjury or fraud was wrong until a prophet said so.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

non-totalitarian state work

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Funny how you ingore this ......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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[rushmc 23]

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That does not prove nor disprove that the law did NOT originate in religious principles, however.

SO? Rush put forward the assertion that they did. Lets let him or someone who agrees with him prove it. Show me that no-one ever thought murder or theft or perjury or fraud was wrong until a prophet said so.

YOU are the one that says it is not related. How about YOU backing up something you post for a change?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,535]

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non-totalitarian state work

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Funny how you ingore this ......

So? That's not a buzz word either - if we followed religious laws then we would live in a totalitarian state, somewhat similar to Saudi. That's a bad thing, it's kinda what your whole constitution is set up to prevent (well, that and reinvasion by the Brits). It was completely relevant to my entire point.

Now, if that was the only part of my post you could take issue with I will bid you good night.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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[Hausse 0]

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Hey man, I am sorry, but I am so lost in this discussion I do not even know what to ask so.

Where am I wrong? (in your opinion)

If I am being dense tonight I apologize

You mean next to the whole god thing?

Oh dam, nice job

Great way to lighten up the thread!!!! Nice job

But, I was really asking. Even if too broad, please find a single point to discuss. Your perspective interests me

Wow the whole thing seems to be too big to bring down to one point and additionally to that the thread seems to drift away in about 3 different directions. I love to discuss this stuff though since it always gives me new stuff to think about.

To the whole law thing: I think it is undoubtable that religion and culture strongly influences the laws and that's how it's supposed to be and that's how we get cultural differences which is nice. I was just saying that changes as well in culture, law and religion should be appreciated since they help humanity to evolve.

[mnealtx 0]

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Ah yes, buzz words and bull shit.

Buzz words? 'Works' - 'Democratic' - yeah, how meaningless

Legal systems of western nations are based on a compromise between law and order and freedom. What must be retained is retained (murder, theft, fraud, perjury etc. etc.) and what is unneccesarily restrictive is discarded (laws against adultery, and other moral crimes). A very large amount of discarded prohibitions are religious in nature.

We are left with a legal system based largely on (quite surprisingly) common sense. People can't go around killing each other, or robbing each other and still expect to live in a functioning society. I challenge you to say to me (with a straight face) that no one ever thought these things were wrong until a 500 year old bloke with a beard climbed down off a mountain carrying two massive carved stones.

So, you are admitting that law, in general, is based on religious principle.

If law was based solely on a social contract, as you try to infer, then why was a "God myth" needed to, in essence, state the same things?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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I was just saying that changes as well in culture, law and religion should be appreciated since they help humanity to evolve.

I don't disagree with this in principle, however, change *just* for the sake of change is not ALWAYS good.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706