"Homicide Bomber"

[rushmc 23]

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>They kill just to make a point, not achive a stratigic goal.

They kill to achieve strategic goals. For example, getting the USSR out of Afghanistan was a strategic goal, one that the Mujahideen accomplished via terrorism and suicide bombing. Goading the USA into over-reaction to stir up support for their cause is another strategic goal.

(Often "making a point" is another way of saying "achieving their goal.")

True to a point but, in this discussion, of killing inocents, it is done mainly for a propoganda goal at best.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnRich 4]

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John Rich made a comment saying that suicide bombers kill innocent men women and children that have no relation to their enemy and that makes them monsters. Well American soldiers have killed innocent men women and children with no relation to their enemy so that must make American soldiers monsters also and I tend to disagree.

I don't really feel that your message is deserving of a response, but I'll help you out with your logic anyway.

Suicide bombers intentionally kill innocents, and that makes them monsters.

In the few rare instances where American soldiers have intentionally killed innocents, then they are monsters also.

However, American soldiers generally don't intentionally go out to kill innocents, like suicide bombers.

And just because a few have done it in rare instances, does not mean that you should paint all American soldiers with the same brush.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Maybe some of them are just reckless endangerment bombers.

[piper17 1]

I call them "terrorists". If they wore uniforms and were members of a country's military, I would call them soldiers. How about you?

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[Darius11 12]

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They have reasons so to speak but, life is not as important to them.

Agreed Life is less meaning full in societies where poverty is high and there is simply a lake of hope and less to live for.

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They kill just to make a point, not achive a stratigic goal.

I guess that depends on a case by case bases.

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Their point is to manipulate the media who maniputlates those that do not like the US and its actions

Again depends on the case some sucide bombers don't have the US in mind at all, but i belive you are ref to Iraq.

I think when criticizing the US one must always ask what would they (other countries) do if they had our power. At the same time I don’t believe patriotism means we should deny truth.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[mnskydiver688 0]

Then why did you respond? The bombers have been taught that their is no other way for their message to be expressed. They believe that killing themselves and taking as many people along with them is the only way to do it. Does this makes them monsters or grossly misguided. Do you put them in the same category as the most famous serial killers who kill for their own twisted pleasure, who torture their victims, and who kill for the sake of killing? Or do you view their actions in a different light? Their actions are just as wrong, but the reasons bringing them to those actions are much different. Will the suicide bombers ever stop? Not as long as they are taught it is the only way.

In regards to the name given I would prefer just bomber be used. They are going for the same outcome, but I guess there are those out there that feel if you change the name you somehow change the psychological effect of their action. I'm sorry but a murder is a murder, and a bomber is a bomber no matter how he/she chooses to do it.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[Douva 0]

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Seriously, Fox News, is this really necessary? Do the conservatives really need their own flavor of political correctness? Aren't most terrorist bombers attempting homicide? Isn't the real distinction that some of them are attempting it by blowing up themselves? Isn't that distinction the reason the term "suicide bomber" was coined in the first place?

Timothy McVeigh was a homicide bomber, but he wasn't a suicide bomber. I suppose it's also possible to be a suicide bomber without being a homicide bomber.

Words have meaning; quit clouding the issues with rhetoric.

Help me understand your position a bit better. What other terms or use of words by any media outlet (including FOX) do you think are out of line?

Why do I need other examples? This discussion isn't about other terms; it's about the terms "suicide bomber" and "homicide bomber."

Isn't it a little redundant to say, "Twenty-three people were killed by a homicide bomber?" Unless Fox News thinks we're going to assume the bomber killed twenty-three people on accident, what is the point of pointing out that the homicide was committed by a HOMICIDE bomber? Couldn't they just say, "Twenty-three people were killed by a bomber?"

When Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City federal building, I don't recall any of the reporters referring to him as "homicide bomber Timothy McVeigh;" though, the term would have been just as accurate in that case.

The adjective "suicide" is used to define the method by which the bombing took place. Calling suicide bombers "homicide bombers" is like calling kamikaze pilots "killer pilots." It doesn't MEAN the same thing.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[rushmc 23]

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They have reasons so to speak but, life is not as important to them.

Agreed Life is less meaning full in societies where poverty is high and there is simply a lake of hope and less to live for.It is more than that or they would not condone strap explosives to thier children it is central to the culture. In this case a religion

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They kill just to make a point, not achive a stratigic goal.

I guess that depends on a case by case bases.True but in general, based on what we see in the news my point is still valid

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Their point is to manipulate the media who maniputlates those that do not like the US and its actions

Again depends on the case some sucide bombers don't have the US in mind at all, but i belive you are ref to Iraq.Iraq, yes. I do feel the goal may be similar in the other contries but I am not as familiar with those places

I think when criticizing the US one must always ask what would they (other countries) do if they had our power. At the same time I don’t believe patriotism means we should deny truth.

If you are implying I deny the truth please tell me where? Speaking of the power of this country, well, Number 1 is always piled on for various reasons

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Then why did you respond? The bombers have been taught that their is no other way for their message to be expressed. They believe that killing themselves and taking as many people along with them is the only way to do it. Does this makes them monsters or grossly misguided. No, not the bombers (IMO) but those that "teach them this is the only war are the monsters, again IMO Do you put them in the same category as the most famous serial killers who kill for their own twisted pleasure, who torture their victims, and who kill for the sake of killing?And how is this related? Or do you view their actions in a different light? Their actions are just as wrong, but the reasons bringing them to those actions are much different. Will the suicide bombers ever stop? Not as long as they are taught it is the only way.

In regards to the name given I would prefer just bomber be used. They are going for the same outcome, but I guess there are those out there that feel if you change the name you somehow change the psychological effect of their action. I'm sorry but a murder is a murder, and a bomber is a bomber no matter how he/she chooses to do it.

Here we agree

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Seriously, Fox News, is this really necessary? Do the conservatives really need their own flavor of political correctness? Aren't most terrorist bombers attempting homicide? Isn't the real distinction that some of them are attempting it by blowing up themselves? Isn't that distinction the reason the term "suicide bomber" was coined in the first place?

Timothy McVeigh was a homicide bomber, but he wasn't a suicide bomber. I suppose it's also possible to be a suicide bomber without being a homicide bomber.

Words have meaning; quit clouding the issues with rhetoric.

Help me understand your position a bit better. What other terms or use of words by any media outlet (including FOX) do you think are out of line?

Why do I need other examples? This discussion isn't about other terms; it's about the terms "suicide bomber" and "homicide bomber."

Isn't it a little redundant to say, "Twenty-three people were killed by a homicide bomber?" Unless Fox News thinks we're going to assume the bomber killed twenty-three people on accident, what is the point of pointing out that the homicide was committed by a HOMICIDE bomber? Couldn't they just say, "Twenty-three people were killed by a bomber?"

When Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City federal building, I don't recall any of the reporters referring to him as "homicide bomber Timothy McVeigh;" though, the term would have been just as accurate in that case.

The adjective "suicide" is used to define the method by which the bombing took place. Calling suicide bombers "homicide bombers" is like calling kamikaze pilots "killer pilots." It doesn't MEAN the same thing.

The reason I ask is because you singled out FOX. If FOX is the only perp in you opinion it makes a big difference. Don't you think?

At least is does when motivation is considered

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Shotgun 1]

One of the Urban Dictionary definitions of "homicide bomber" is "A phrase used solely by the Fox News organization in an attempt at making themselves sound completely retarded."

I never watch or read Fox News. Maybe I'll try it sometime when I'm really bored. At least they seem to give people something to talk about it.

[rushmc 23]

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One of the Urban Dictionary definitions of "homicide bomber" is "A phrase used solely by the Fox News organization in an attempt at making themselves sound completely retarded."

I never watch or read Fox News. Maybe I'll try it sometime when I'm really bored. At least they seem to give people something to talk about it.

They do because it is the main challenge to the big 4 CBS, NBC, ABC and CNN. They dont like it and neither do the left of this country.

But I like you watch very little TV news. I get some on the radio including FOX, ABC and NPR.

I get most of my news from the internet. Drudge, AP, NewsMax, BBC and others. This way the series stories are easy to see and filter for the validity.

Sorry I rambled but you comment seemed to create an oportunity bring this up

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Douva 0]

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The reason I ask is because you singled out FOX. If FOX is the only perp in you opinion it makes a big difference. Don't you think?

I'm sorry--Was I supposed to single out CNN for a stupid decision made by the Fox network?

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[rushmc 23]

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The reason I ask is because you singled out FOX. If FOX is the only perp in you opinion it makes a big difference. Don't you think?

I'm sorry--Was I supposed to single out CNN for a stupid decision made by the Fox network?

No, you are misunderstanding my point. Sorry if I am not clear.

On another note, I do not see the big deal. Yes words are words but not all agree with what you, me or how anybody else sees proper use of some words.

Just me I guess

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Royd 0]

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Why do I need other examples? This discussion isn't about other terms; it's about the terms "suicide bomber" and "homicide bomber."

Quite simply, McVeigh had no intention of killing himself. He still be running around free today, if he had his way.

[skydyvr 0]

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And sorry to get off-topic of the thread; it just bugs me when people think that homophobia has to mean fear of homosexuals. "Phobia" does not always equate to "fear."

I lose the argument based on application of the "averse" portion of the definition of phobia. Didn't realize that was part of the definition until now.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Douva 0]

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The reason I ask is because you singled out FOX. If FOX is the only perp in you opinion it makes a big difference. Don't you think?

I'm sorry--Was I supposed to single out CNN for a stupid decision made by the Fox network?

No, you are misunderstanding my point. Sorry if I am not clear.

On another note, I do not see the big deal. Yes words are words but not all agree with what you, me or how anybody else sees proper use of some words.

Just me I guess

If you have examples of other networks doing the same type of thing, point them out, and we'll discuss those as well. Otherwise, quit trying to turn this into something it's not.

This is not an objective issue. The words "homicide" and "suicide" have different meanings; therefore, it is not logical for Fox News to try to attribute the same meanings to "homicide bomber" and "suicide bomber."

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[skydyvr 0]

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. . . it is not logical for Fox News to try to attribute the same meanings to "homicide bomber" and "suicide bomber."

Well, I don't see it as Fox trying to give the same meaning to two phrases.

Instead, they are trying to re-label the bomber with a decidedly different name, all in some bizarre effort to shift the focus away from the bomber and onto the victims, or something like that.

. . =(_8^(1)

[JohnRich 4]

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I think when criticizing the US one must always ask what would they (other countries) do if they had our power.

Many muslim leaders have said unequivocally that they would like to destroy the United States. And Israel. And England. And, well, pretty much everyone else who isn't a muslim.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Those who aren't with us are against us.

Different words, same meaning. Specially when spoken by a regime who invade a country with very dubious reasoning and thought.

[Darius11 12]

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If you are implying I deny the truth please tell me where?

Not implying that you deny the truth. But I know many that do or simply do not see it. Many who have made up there mind regurdless of the facts. Our disagreement is about perspective which I can understand we all have different ones.

I am sure you have noticed we have plenty of people who simply can not ever admit that we have done any thing wrong. There is always an excuse or an explanation, which is fine, as long as we realize the other side also has excuses and explanations.


I think to state that it is done just because they are hungry to kill or monsters is just ignorant. They are fighters who are willing to sacrifice their lives for what they believe much like the kamikazes' of Japan.
It is viewed as honorable to die for your cause in many cultures; it is a gross over simplification to think there just Muslims and crazy. Many of the people we call Heroes die for what they believe.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[JohnRich 4]

"The bombers have been taught that their is no other way for their message to be expressed. They believe that killing themselves and taking as many people along with them is the only way to do it. Does this makes them monsters or grossly misguided."

Both. They should have enough brains to figure out on their own that killing innocent people is wrong. If my neighbor across my back fence is causing me a problem, I don't solve it by killing my innocent neighbor across the street.

"Do you put them in the same category as the most famous serial killers who kill for their own twisted pleasure, who torture their victims, and who kill for the sake of killing? Or do you view their actions in a different light?"

Yes. No. Murder is wrong. Period.

"Their actions are just as wrong, but the reasons bringing them to those actions are much different."

See above. Their motive is irrelevant.

"Will the suicide bombers ever stop? Not as long as they are taught it is the only way."

So, don't you think those muslim religious leaders should quit using the Koran to justify suicide bomb murders?

[JohnRich 4]

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Those who aren't with us are against us.

Different words, same meaning. Specially when spoken by a regime who invade a country with very dubious reasoning and thought.

Bush may have considered them "against us", but he didn't pledge to wipe them off the face of the earth because of it. Big difference.

[rushmc 23]

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The reason I ask is because you singled out FOX. If FOX is the only perp in you opinion it makes a big difference. Don't you think?

I'm sorry--Was I supposed to single out CNN for a stupid decision made by the Fox network?

No, you are misunderstanding my point. Sorry if I am not clear.

On another note, I do not see the big deal. Yes words are words but not all agree with what you, me or how anybody else sees proper use of some words.

Just me I guess

If you have examples of other networks doing the same type of thing, point them out, and we'll discuss those as well. Otherwise, quit trying to turn this into something it's not.

This is not an objective issue. The words "homicide" and "suicide" have different meanings; therefore, it is not logical for Fox News to try to attribute the same meanings to "homicide bomber" and "suicide bomber."

the examples are many but it would seem you have not seen them, oh well.

as for your examples, I think either word fits well. I think you are making something out of it that is not there

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnRich 4]

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I think to state that it is done just because they are hungry to kill or monsters is just ignorant. They are fighters who are willing to sacrifice their lives for what they believe much like the kamikazes' of Japan. It is viewed as honorable to die for your cause in many cultures; it is a gross over simplification to think there just Muslims and crazy. Many of the people we call Heroes die for what they believe.

That's not the issue. The issue is the way they go about fighting for their cause. Murdering innocent people is the wrong way to do it. And by going about it the wrong way, that makes them "crazy".

The kamikazes directly attacked the military warships which were threatening their own country - not innocent civilians minding their own business back in San Francisco. Thus, they were brave warriors, rather than just crazy monsters.