"Homicide Bomber"

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

If you are implying I deny the truth please tell me where?

Not implying that you deny the truth. But I know many that do or simply do not see it. Many who have made up there mind regurdless of the facts. Our disagreement is about perspective which I can understand we all have different ones.

I am sure you have noticed we have plenty of people who simply can not ever admit that we have done any thing wrong. There is always an excuse or an explanation, which is fine, as long as we realize the other side also has excuses and explanations.


I think to state that it is done just because they are hungry to kill or monsters is just ignorant. They are fighters who are willing to sacrifice their lives for what they believe much like the kamikazes' of Japan.
It is viewed as honorable to die for your cause in many cultures; it is a gross over simplification to think there just Muslims and crazy. Many of the people we call Heroes die for what they believe.

I see your point but I think this needs to be considered too. the kamikazies died for a country, wearing a uniform of that country and had a specific military objective.

These nuts we discuss here, for the most part, are killing themselves (and others) in a country that is not thier own for a religious objective. That objective being, follow our God or we will kill you. They are not killing to "free" thier country. They are killing to keep a country from becoming a strong self reliant country that will maybe remove them from power in the whole region. They use that same mentality to use terror to keep the population in line.

I see BIG differences between Japans "heroes" and these islamo facist's. A BIG difference

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Many muslim leaders have said unequivocally that they would like to destroy the United States

Really Who? And I hope by Muslim leader you are speaking of a president or a king of a country and not some crazy religious psycho as religious psychos have plenty counterparts in other religions as well. Again FACT for you John. The president of this country called 3 countries, which had NOTHING to do with 9-11 or any attack EVER on US soil the Axis of evil, as he mentioned that we must start a Crusade.


If you want to claim Irans invovment please remeber we are the guys who armed OBL, and Sadam and god knows who else.

As for civilians getting killed which is horrible no matter who is doing it lets not forget that we win by a long shot when you compare numbers, and we have the most sophisticated army in the world. What’s are excuse?

When you compare that to people who have no other way to fight back I think it should be obvious to rational thinkers of who is guiltier. The one who starts a war that did not need to be started or the people trying to kick invaders out of their land?

We invade a country for no reason or false reasons, there fore every single civilian that has been killed by us in Iraq simply did not need to be killed, As the cause we gave for this war did not exist it was false.

It doesn’t get any simpler then that John and honestly I think you will never see the truth or even be able to accept the Facts.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Quote

These nuts we discuss here, for the most part, are killing themselves (and others) in a country that is not thier own for a religious objective. That objective being, follow our God or we will kill you. They are not killing to "free" thier country. They are killing to keep a country from becoming a strong self reliant country that will maybe remove them from power in the whole region. They use that same mentality to use terror to keep the population in line.

Again your statement can be applied to some Suicide bombers not all. I really hope your not claiming that every one who is fighting us in Iraq is imported and there are no Iraqis that want us out of there land.

Here is a question for you. What do you say when most Iraqis say they want us to get the fuck out? Do they not have a right to want that? I hope you do agree that the reasons given to start this war were false so what’s are excuse?

I understand collateral damage when people are fighting for a grater good, but how do you explain the tens of thousands of people we have killed when the original goal of the invasion has been proven to be false?

That’s a big deal.

I also love the uniform argument. We have a superior army if they were carrying a flag or waring uniform it would take less then a week for us to kill them all. That’s like wondering why an undercover cop doesn’t ware his badge to the big drug deal. Here is your answer not to get killed.

Why do they use suicide bombs because they don't have a trillion dollars. We the US founding fathers were the inventors of gorilla warfare which the English thought was savage and barbaric, but guess what we did it because that was the best option we had to fight the invaders. Were the people who fought for the independence of these country cowards? I don’t think so I think they were smart and they fought the best way they could for their land.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 23]

It doesn’t get any simpler then that John and honestly I think you will never see the truth or even be able to accept the Facts.

[Darius11 12]

Quote

It doesn’t get any simpler then that John and honestly I think you will never see the truth or even be able to accept the Facts.

So, it is only the "truth" if you define and belive it?

there are facts before discussed, and in Johns post that you reject and I think/know are the truth.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

These nuts we discuss here, for the most part, are killing themselves (and others) in a country that is not thier own for a religious objective. That objective being, follow our God or we will kill you. They are not killing to "free" thier country. They are killing to keep a country from becoming a strong self reliant country that will maybe remove them from power in the whole region. They use that same mentality to use terror to keep the population in line.

Again your statement can be applied to some Suicide bombers not all. I really hope your not claiming that every one who is fighting us in Iraq is imported and there are no Iraqis that want us out of there land.Your "truth" not "the" so this is a non-question. It is documented that most of them (not all) are not Iraqis

Here is a question for you. What do you say when most Iraqis say they want us to get the fuck out? If they did we would have to talk about it Do they not have a right to want that?Yes they do but since they are not it is not an issue I hope you do agree that the reasons given to start this war were false so what’s are excuse?Most, including many on both sides of the aisle believe WMDs were and issue so describing it as false is your term. I do believe the reasons given to us were too narrow (for communications purposes) and were poorly communticated but I regect you implication using the word false

I understand collateral damage when people are fighting for a grater good, but how do you explain the tens of thousands of people we have killed when the original goal of the invasion has been proven to be false?

That’s a big deal. It is! but I believe your perspective is false and misleading

I also love the uniform argument. We have a superior army if they were carrying a flag or a uniform it would take less then a week for us it kills them all. That’s like wondering why an undercover cop doesn’t ware his badge to the big drug deal. Here is your answer not to get killed.Twist twist twist. It was used to help make a point and then you do this. come on You are the one that pulled in japan to this debate, not I

Why do they use suicide bombs because they don't have a trillion dollars. We the US founding fathers were the inventors of gorilla warfare which the English thought was savage and barbaric, but guess what we did it because that was the best option we had to fight the invaders. Were the people who fought for the independence of these country cowards? I don’t think so I think they were smart and they fought the best way they could for their land.

You are talking tactics now. Cant change mid-stream. We were talking reasons. Which do you want to talk about?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

It doesn’t get any simpler then that John and honestly I think you will never see the truth or even be able to accept the Facts.

So, it is only the "truth" if you define and belive it?

there are facts before discussed, and in Johns post that you reject and I think/know are the truth.

Like what?

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Here is a question for you. What do you say when most Iraqis say they want us to get the fuck out? If they did we would have to talk about it Do they not have a right to want that?Yes they do but since they are not it is not an issue

So if I bring up a poll that Iraqi took and the majority stated they want the US to leave would you change sides or would you criticize the poll?

Quote

I hope you do agree that the reasons given to start this war were false so what’s are excuse?Most, including many on both sides of the aisle believe WMDs were and issue so describing it as false is your term. I do believe the reasons given to us were too narrow (for communications purposes) and were poorly communticated but I regect you implication using the word false

Come on man do you want me to copy and paste Collin Powels Speech. WMD, possibly nuclear an imminent danger………..All of that was not true. Not true to me = False you can spin it all you want bro. But every reason they gave at the beginning of the war was completely false. Even the administration admitted that there was no WMD it was an intelligence brake down. I don’t know what else to call it but false.

Quote

I also love the uniform argument. We have a superior army if they were carrying a flag or a uniform it would take less then a week for us it kills them all. That’s like wondering why an undercover cop doesn’t ware his badge to the big drug deal. Here is your answer not to get killed.Twist twist twist. It was used to help make a point and then you do this. come on You are the one that pulled in japan to this debate, not I

Why do they use suicide bombs because they don't have a trillion dollars. We the US founding fathers were the inventors of gorilla warfare which the English thought was savage and barbaric, but guess what we did it because that was the best option we had to fight the invaders. Were the people who fought for the independence of these country cowards? I don’t think so I think they were smart and they fought the best way they could for their land.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are talking tactics now. Cant change mid-stream. We were talking reasons. Which do you want to talk about?

Maybe that’s the issue to understand it you have to be able to look at the whole picture you cannot just look at one angel. The capability usually is a good indictor of tactics used. I am sure of they had F-18 they would not be using them selves to carry bombs


As for bringing up the past: That is to give you perspective. Maybe if we can see we have done the same thing (Which is to use methods of warfare that at the time of use were considered barbaric and uncivilized, but we did it because it was the only way to fight a stronger foe) when faced with the same odds.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Quote

Many muslim leaders have said unequivocally that they would like to destroy the United States

Really Who? And I hope by Muslim leader you are speaking of a president or a king of a country and not some crazy religious psycho...

Many muslims give absolute faith and allegiance to anything their psycho religious leaders tell them. They're causing the deaths of many innocents. Maybe you should do something about that instead of just dismissing them as "psycho" and ignoring them.

Quote

If you want to claim Irans invovment please remeber we are the guys who armed OBL, and Sadam

Let's see, we helped muslim nations repel foreign invaders, and now you consider that a terrible thing, even while at the same time cursing America as a foreign invader of a muslim nation. Yeah, that's great logic there. If you were making sense, you would be thanking America for helping Afghanistan and Sadam back then.

Have you seen the movie "Charlie Wilson's War"?

Quote

As for civilians getting killed which is horrible no matter who is doing it lets not forget that we win by a long shot when you compare numbers

I see you still haven't learned to differentiate between intentional acts of mass homicide, and accidents. That's the kind of thinking that comes from crazy muslim suicide bombers.

When America accidentally kills innocents, we prosecute those responsible. When muslim suicide bombers intentionally kill innocents, they are celebrated.

Quote

When you compare that to people who have no other way to fight back... trying to kick invaders out of their land?

So killing innocent people is the only way to repel foreign invaders? Um, just off the top of my head, I can think of another way: killing the foreign invaders. Gee, that was easy. And the answer was right there in your previous mention of OBL in Afghanistan. Did Afghani's kill their own citizens to spite Russia? Nope, they just killed the Russians. That "only way" argument sure makes a lousy excuse for killing innocents.

Quote

It doesn’t get any simpler then that John and honestly I think you will never see the truth or even be able to accept the Facts.

The "truth" and "facts" which you see are screwed up.

[Darius11 12]

You said John had mentioned facts that i ignored i asked like what?

i am still waiting.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Here is a question for you. What do you say when most Iraqis say they want us to get the fuck out? If they did we would have to talk about it Do they not have a right to want that?Yes they do but since they are not it is not an issue

So if I bring up a poll that Iraqi took and the majority stated they want the US to leave would you change sides or would you criticize the poll?
We can both bring up polls supporting our side. In the end, it depends on how the poll questions are put forth

Quote

I hope you do agree that the reasons given to start this war were false so what’s are excuse?Most, including many on both sides of the aisle believe WMDs were and issue so describing it as false is your term. I do believe the reasons given to us were too narrow (for communications purposes) and were poorly communticated but I regect you implication using the word false

Come on man do you want me to copy and paste Collin Powels Speech. WMD, possibly nuclear an imminent danger………..All of that was not true. Not true to me = False you can spin it all you want bro. But every reason they gave at the beginning of the war was completely false. Even the administration admitted that there was no WMD it was an intelligence brake down. I don’t know what else to call it but false.YOUR truth. I understand you point but I do not agree with it. There is and was more to it but this is what your side zeros in on.

Quote

I also love the uniform argument. We have a superior army if they were carrying a flag or a uniform it would take less then a week for us it kills them all. That’s like wondering why an undercover cop doesn’t ware his badge to the big drug deal. Here is your answer not to get killed.Twist twist twist. It was used to help make a point and then you do this. come on You are the one that pulled in japan to this debate, not I

Why do they use suicide bombs because they don't have a trillion dollars. We the US founding fathers were the inventors of gorilla warfare which the English thought was savage and barbaric, but guess what we did it because that was the best option we had to fight the invaders. Were the people who fought for the independence of these country cowards? I don’t think so I think they were smart and they fought the best way they could for their land.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are talking tactics now. Cant change mid-stream. We were talking reasons. Which do you want to talk about?

Maybe that’s the issue to understand it you have to be able to look at the whole picture you cannot just look at one angel. The capability usually is a good indictor of tactics used. I am sure of they had F-18 they would not be using them selves to carry bombs


As for bringing up the past: That is to give you perspective. Maybe if we can see we have done the same thing (Which is to use methods of warfare that at the time of use were considered barbaric and uncivilized, but we did it because it was the only way to fight a stronger foe) when faced with the same odds.

If this was the reason, ok but it is only part of it and a small part to boot. How do you explain the train station and cafe attacks? Lots of overwhelming force there huh

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

the US founding fathers were the inventors of gorilla warfare which the English thought was savage and barbaric, but guess what we did it because that was the best option we had to fight the invaders. Were the people who fought for the independence of these country cowards? I don’t think so I think they were smart and they fought the best way they could for their land.

Revolutionary War fighters didn't go around killing innocent citizens in masses, even those loyal to England. They fought the British soldiers directly who enforced the unjust policies at the point of a bayonet.

Once again, Darius the terrorist excuse-maker, fails to see a distinction between killing innocent civilians, and the actual enemy oppressors.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

You said John had mentioned facts that i ignored i asked like what?

i am still waiting.

As am i still waiting..............

And I think I said John posted things you did not think were true and I did . The point being, you think only you have the truth. I do not think you do nor do I. We have our perspectives. What makes yours absolute?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Many muslims give absolute faith and allegiance to anything their psycho religious leaders tell them. They're causing the deaths of many innocents. Maybe you should do something about that instead of just dismissing them as "psycho" and ignoring them.

So your answer to the leaders you claimed is "many muslims"?

Quote

Yeah, we helped muslim nations repel foreign invaders, and now you consider that a terrible thing, even while at the same time cursing America as a foreign invader of a muslim nation. Yeah, that's great logic there. If you were making sense, you would be thanking America for helping Afghanistan and Sadam. Have you seen the movie "Charlie Wilson's War"?

Well considering that Iraq was indicated as the instigator of the Iran and Iraq war when they invaded Iran without declaring war. Also the use of Chemical weapons on inocent people by the Iraqis I really think maybe we need to apologies for supporting a dictator such as sadam.


Also considering that the core beliefs of the Talabon has not changed Which means they treated woman the same and still had the same ideas when they were fighting the Russians. Maybe we should have not supported them either.
Especially considering when you usually do your lumping of all Muslims you should be only be referring to them.

Quote

Have you seen the movie "Charlie Wilson's War"?

No and if i did i would not base my judgment on a movie.

Quote

The "truth" and "facts" which you see are screwed up.

Considerring you'r using a hollywood movie as your fact base i'll stick to mine thank you.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

And I think I said John posted things you did not think were true and I did . The point being, you think only you have the truth. I do not think you do nor do I. We have our perspectives. What makes yours absolute?

Darius is a muslim from Iran, therefore his "truth" overrides ours.

Now bow down and pray to mecca for your soul.

[Darius11 12]

Really like what its funny you claim John has posted some truth that i am denying yet you can't seem to find an exsample.

Thats all i am asking for. To see John or you post something that is a fact that i have denyed.

Yet your the one who says the reasons for starting this war were not false!? really ?????? and i am the one denying facts.

Is it impossible for you to admit your wrong? both of you? Your own adminstartion said they were wrong yet you cannot see it or admit it? I don't know what else to say

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Quote

the US founding fathers were the inventors of gorilla warfare which the English thought was savage and barbaric, but guess what we did it because that was the best option we had to fight the invaders. Were the people who fought for the independence of these country cowards? I don’t think so I think they were smart and they fought the best way they could for their land.

Revolutionary War fighters didn't go around killing innocent citizens in masses, even those loyal to England. They fought the British soldiers directly who enforced the unjust policies at the point of a bayonet.

Once again, Darius the terrorist excuse-maker, fails to see a distinction between killing innocent civilians, and the actual enemy oppressors.

This was in the post but i guess you missed it.

Quote

(Which is to use methods of warfare that at the time of use were considered barbaric and uncivilized, but we did it because it was the only way to fight a stronger foe)

Let me know if you need it simplified.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

So your answer to the leaders you claimed is "many muslims"?

Are you disappointed or something that I didn't accuse all muslims of being terrorists? Yeah, I said "many". That's the correct characterization of the number of muslims that are terrorists. So what exactly is your beef with that word?

Quote

Well considering that Iraq was indicated as the instigator of the Iran and Iraq war when they invaded Iran without declaring war. Also the use of Chemical weapons on inocent people by the Iraqis I really think maybe we need to apologies for supporting a dictator such as sadam.

Yeah, Iran was completely innocent.

So if you understand you correctly, then you would have preferred that Iraq not be able to defend itself adequately against Iran, and that Iran should have been allowed to annihilate Iraq. Oops, there's that goofy logic of yours again. First you want Iraq to be free of American invaders, while at the same time complaining about how they were able to repel Iranian invaders. I wish you could make up your mind!

The chemical warfare weapons Sadam used on civilians did not come from America. He made those on his own. You lose still another argument.

Quote

Also considering that the core beliefs of the Talabon has not changed Which means they treated woman the same and still had the same ideas when they were fighting the Russians. Maybe we should have not supported them either.

Make up your mind! Did you want Iraq to be run by the Russians, or the Taliban? Did you want America to overthrow the Taliban, or to leave them alone. Gosh, you're just making zero sense...

Quote

Have you seen the movie "Charlie Wilson's War"?

Quote

No and if i did i would not base my judgment on a movie.

The movie is based upon fact. Research the facts. Afghanistan asked for America's help in fighting the Russians. Would you have preferred that we said "No", so that the Russians could have killed more muslims and continued to occupy muslim land? Make up your mind!

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Quote

And I think I said John posted things you did not think were true and I did . The point being, you think only you have the truth. I do not think you do nor do I. We have our perspectives. What makes yours absolute?

Darius is a muslim from Iran, therefore his "truth" overrides ours.

Now bow down and pray to mecca for your soul.

No Darius is someone who has seen both sides and does not relay on Hollywood movies for his facts John.

As usual you have nothing to offer and you avoid all questions directed at you. Even when your questions have been answered over and over again. Not to mention you attack me every chance you get even in Bone fire when the post is not even related to any thing political. Unfortunately class can not be thought. You Avoid question because you are afraid it will shake your rather fragile foundation you base your opinions on. Good forbid you have to admit a fact and realize that everything you base your opinions on is false or movie.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

the reasons for starting this war were not false!? really ??????

Even if you accept, for the sake of argument, that this is true, it does not justify the terrorist killings of innocent civilians by suicide bombers.

Do you accept that? Yes or no?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Really like what its funny you claim John has posted some truth that i am denying yet you can't seem to find an exsample.

Thats all i am asking for. To see John or you post something that is a fact that i have denyed.

Yet your the one who says the reasons for starting this war were not false!? really ?????? and i am the one denying facts.

Is it impossible for you to admit your wrong? both of you? Your own adminstartion said they were wrong yet you cannot see it or admit it? I don't know what else to say

Look, we will not agree. What you "see" as facts are not. They are points that you have a perspective of. Your narrow focus will not allow you to even look at things objectivly. so be it. We disagree. I do not think I am wrong and you do not think you are. The main issue is I can acept that, you cant

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

I see you still haven't learned to differentiate between intentional acts of mass homicide, and accidents. That's the kind of thinking that comes from crazy muslim suicide bombers.

Why pick on Muslims when the majority of suicide bombers are Hindus?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Are you disappointed or something that I didn't accuse all muslims of being terrorists? Yeah, I said "many". That's the correct characterization of the number of muslims that are terrorists. So what exactly is your beef with that word?

So let me get this right you said

Quote

Many muslim leaders have said unequivocally that they would like to destroy the United States

But can't name one president or king who said that.

What the heck do you base your information on?


John i have said this 100 times but really i am just done with you. you have no integrity in your posts you just spew false information that you can’t even back up your self.

Just not worth my time

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

The movie is based upon fact.

So was Braveheart

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

No Darius is someone who has seen both sides

Like I said; you think you know more than everyone else.

But you don't.

Your errors in facts and logic are obvious and stunning to all who read your posts. Have you noticed that ow one has jumped in to agree with you? Oh yeah, I guess everyone else on this forum is ignorant of the facts too. Yes, only Darius knows the real truth. Uh-huh. And one of those real truths is that killing innocents with suicide bombers is okay. In fact, it's an honorable tactic that more people should do!

The most striking example of your goofy logic is this: When American soldiers accidentally kill muslim civilians, the soldiers are war criminals. But when muslim suicide bombers kill muslim civilians, then the killers are courageous freedom fighters.

And that's what you call "truth". Hrumpf!