Another Tasering

[akarunway 1]

Jeesh. This shit is getting crazy>http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_8104993

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[GQ_jumper 4]

A man runs from the Police and the tools provided to the Police to apprehend people who want to resist arrest are used. How is that crazy, should the officer instead have thrown his baton at the ack of the guys head?

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Lindsey 0]

It's crazy because the use of tasers has very quickly gone from "only to be used as an alternative to deadly force" to something that is used in place of the old-fashioned whistle.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[mnealtx 0]

A threat is useless without the ability to back it up.... kinda like the bobbies... "Stop, or I'll shout 'stop' again!!"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[airtwardo 7]

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It's crazy because the use of tasers has very quickly gone from "only to be used as an alternative to deadly force" to something that is used in place of the old-fashioned whistle.

linz

After a half-block chase and several warnings from Smith that he would use the Taser, he did.





So I guess you believe he would had stopped for a whistle instead of the verbal commands?

This isn't rocket surgery...if you are running from the police, they have to think that you are doing so for a reason.

As a law abiding tax paying citizen, I kinda like the idea that if someone is running from the police they will be stopped.

Who knows, just maybe they are running because of the murder warrant out on them, or because of the pocket full of crack they're hoping to sell to a kid....or like this guy, for the use of false citizenship/government documents.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Lastchance 0]

I watched on one of the morning news shows this morn. about a lady that is throwing Taser parties like they were tupperware. Now every Joe Blow can start tasering everybody that offends them somehow. Tasering-- Not just for Policemen anymore. Hell they even come in pink. Gotta be fashion aware and color coordinated.

I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.

[ExAFO 0]

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A man runs from the Police and the tools provided to the Police to apprehend people who want to resist arrest are used. How is that crazy, should the officer instead have thrown his baton at the ack of the guys head?

Quoted for Truth/Emphasis/A seldom-seen-on-the-SC-bit-of-common-sense.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Lindsey 0]

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A man runs from the Police and the tools provided to the Police to apprehend people who want to resist arrest are used. How is that crazy, should the officer instead have thrown his baton at the ack of the guys head?

Quoted for Truth/Emphasis/A seldom-seen-on-the-SC-bit-of-common-sense.

In my opinion, there is NO EXCUSE for tasering someone because he is running from a police officer unless he is threatening to harm another person. It's just scary to me that there are people who think that is okay.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[nerdgirl 0]

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In my opinion, there is NO EXCUSE for tasering someone because he is running from a police officer unless he is threatening to harm another person. It's just scary to me that there are people who think that is okay.

Concur.

VR/Marg

[Bdog 0]

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It's crazy because the use of tasers has very quickly gone from "only to be used as an alternative to deadly force" to something that is used in place of the old-fashioned whistle.

linz

It is NOT an alternative to deadly force. on the use of force continuum it is equal to oc spray

_________________________________________

---Future Darwin Award recipient-

[Lindsey 0]

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It's crazy because the use of tasers has very quickly gone from "only to be used as an alternative to deadly force" to something that is used in place of the old-fashioned whistle.

linz

It is NOT an alternative to deadly force. on the use of force continuum it is equal to oc spray

Maybe so. But that's the line that was touted as the tasers were brought into use. It's how they calmed the masses when these weapons were added to the arsenal. THEN they used 'em differently once people were desensitized, with us believing that citizens would be safer with tasers in use. Wouldn't need to shoot so many people if they could just shock 'em into submission. They CONDITIONED people to accepting their commonplace use. Think of yourself as a laboratory rat.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[skydyvr 0]

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In my opinion, there is NO EXCUSE for tasering someone because he is running from a police officer unless he is threatening to harm another person. It's just scary to me that there are people who think that is okay.

Concur.

VR/Marg

Me three.

. . =(_8^(1)

[GQ_jumper 4]

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In my opinion, there is NO EXCUSE for tasering someone because he is running from a police officer unless he is threatening to harm another person. It's just scary to me that there are people who think that is okay.

Concur.

VR/Marg

Me three.

So I ask the three of you, in your opinon what is the best course of action? An officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect on foot, he can keep pace with the suspect but is falling short of being able to close the distance, at some point in this foot race one of the two is going to fall out, does the officer wait and see if his cardio is better than the suspect's or does he use one of those nifty tools on his belt to slow the suspect?

Lets look at all the tools on the belt shall we?

Baton....yeah, there's a great one in a chase
Pistol....OK, and when the first round misses and goes into someone's house and kills a kid then what?
Pepper spray....Genius, let's spray it ahead of us as we are running and see who ends up in the cloud of it first
Handcuffs....Maybe we can throw 'em like a boomerang and just like in some crazy ninja movie they'll snap onto his ankles perfectly and trip him up
Police badge....They make great ninja starts in a clinch
Tazer....OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD, LOOK AT THIS, the officer was issued this wonderful tool, it can be used to literally stop this guy in his tracks and 99.9% of the time causes no injury to the suspect.
Voice....Yes, that's it, the officer should talk to the suspect, because obviously the first time he approached the suspect the silly man got confused and thought Mr. Policeman wanted to play freeze tag, and haha, he's it, let's run away......"Hey stop, no seriously, stop, I'm not joking I'm a cop, come on man for real, stop running, pppllleeeaaassseee, ok can you at least slow down I'm running out of breath from yelling, ok, you go ahead I'm going to catch my breath, take a left at the light, i'll meet you at the 7-11, oh damn he turned right, maybe he's going to the loaf and jug instead, I'm sure he'll wait for me"


All of those options but one are completely retarded, and I'll let you three guess which ones they are.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Lindsey 0]

In my opinion, it matters less that people running from the police sometimes get away than it does that the police use whatever is at their disposal to stop any citizen whom they choose to apprehend. I have to err on the side of the citizen. While I trust most police officers, it's obvious that there's too much potential for abuse here.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[skydyvr 0]

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All of those options but one are completely retarded, and I'll let you three guess which ones they are.

The best option was to either catch the guy or call for assistance. "Heading towards a house" is a marginally lame excuse to taser someone. So is "the guy didn't hit the ground fast enough for me" or any of the other low threat excuses cops use to taser people these days.

As was said earlier -- it started as an alternative to using deadly force, but is increasingly being used as a front-line compliance tool.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Para_Frog 1]

Comply or zap.

I know the rule - so I comply.

I consider it an intelligence test. Stupidity hurts - as it should.

I never understood that when I was a cop.

Dude, put the knife down.
fuck you po-po.
bang.

Stupidity hurts.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[Para_Frog 1]

Deary, If someone is threatening harm to another person, they get ventilated - justifiably.

Anything shy of that, say, a TASER, is called restraint.

Go on a ride along in East Austin sometime. You'll get over your little hangup in about 30 minutes.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[airtwardo 7]

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A man runs from the Police and the tools provided to the Police to apprehend people who want to resist arrest are used. How is that crazy, should the officer instead have thrown his baton at the ack of the guys head?

Quoted for Truth/Emphasis/A seldom-seen-on-the-SC-bit-of-common-sense.

In my opinion, there is NO EXCUSE for tasering someone because he is running from a police officer unless he is threatening to harm another person. It's just scary to me that there are people who think that is okay.

What's really scary is that you thinks it's okay to run from the cops...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[shropshire 0]

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A man runs from the Police and the tools provided to the Police to apprehend people who want to resist arrest are used. How is that crazy, should the officer instead have thrown his baton at the ack of the guys head?

Quoted for Truth/Emphasis/A seldom-seen-on-the-SC-bit-of-common-sense.

In my opinion, there is NO EXCUSE for tasering someone because he is running from a police officer unless he is threatening to harm another person. It's just scary to me that there are people who think that is okay.

100% agree ...... but you know that there are some cops out there that can't run past a doughnut shop

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jdthomas 0]

"We consider the Taser as being at the same level of force as other weapons, including pepper spray and batons," James said.

This quote from the police officer is a bit concerning, is he considering all of his tools equal or on the same level. I am reading it as so per his remarks.. same force as other weapons the force uses, he does not include firearms but he does not exclude them either.
I am all for alot of tools and less leathal is great and I firmly believe that some people are true threats to life and can understand and advocate the actually shooting of a true threat with a firearm.
However we we lump these tools as equal then we get numbed to the power and may use lack of clear judgement and misuse will arise as it all ready has seem to have been doing across the country.
With the onset of this offers mental thoughts on all is the same it won't be long before he shoots someone and justifys it because in his own mind for some minor reason.. oh there was a school bus two blocks down the road and the guy took off running, I feard for the children that where possibly in the bus so I shot this person.
I hope that we are not all numbing ourselves to the next level of accpetance. Question authority is not just a rebel statement, it's a checks and balance system for the good of us all.

www.greenboxphotography.com

[nerdgirl 0]

While each state, local, county, and tribal jurisdiction has the right and responsibility to determine specific practices and procedures ...

According to the Director of the DOJ's National Institute of Justice (NIJ):
"Less-than-lethal weapons were developed to provide law enforcement, corrections, and military personnel with an alternative to lethal force [emphasis nerdgirl]. They are designed to temporarily incapacitate, confuse, delay, or restrain an adversary in a variety of situations. They have been used primarily in on-the-street confrontations and suicide interventions, but have also been applied in riots, prison disturbances, and hostage rescues. Less-than-lethal weapons are most often used when: (1) lethal force is not appropriate, (2) lethal force is justified but lesser force may subdue the aggressor, and (3) lethal force is justified but its use could cause collateral effects, such as injury to bystanders or unacceptable damage to property and environment."

Based on the available information to us, the use of the taser fails under (2) & (3). Per the article on which our discussion is based, the civilian was eventually detained on "suspicion of resisting arrest, riding a bicycle without proper lighting, riding under the influence of alcohol and use of false citizenship/government." While I would argue there certainly appears to justifiable grounds for police intervention and detention, the available description does not suggest that the civilian was aggressive nor an immediate threat to himself or others (moreso once he got off of the bike).

Questions remain: Does this incident, in aggregate with all of the others discussed here & others, suggest an escalation to use of less-lethal force or lowering the proverbial bar to use of force when previously control of the situation was dependent on the professionalism of the officer? Perhaps.

Are new technologies being used as a substitute or short-cut – that’s a little too pejorative of a characterization but hopefully the idea is conveyed – for good training and for maintaining professionalism in LEO? I don't think there's evidence to suggest that's the intent ... but it may be an unintended consequence.

Instead of valuing professionalism and judgment that comes from training and experience, is there a trend to short cut with technology? I hope not.

As you are most likely well-aware, non-lethal weapons [the most common military term]/less lethal [the NIJ term]/"weapons which do not cross the death barrier" span a range of technologies.

Regardless, less-than-lethals are an "alternative to lethal" not an alternative to good, professional law enforcement.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Zipp0 1]

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I watched on one of the morning news shows this morn. about a lady that is throwing Taser parties like they were tupperware. Now every Joe Blow can start tasering everybody that offends them somehow. Tasering-- Not just for Policemen anymore. Hell they even come in pink. Gotta be fashion aware and color coordinated.

Yes, but "civilian" tasers shoot a shorter distance than police tasers. I suppose that this is so that in a cop/civilian taser 'showdown at the o.k. corral" the police have the upper hand.

I think it's like making civilian bullets less effective than cop bullets, which we don't do, other than the bullshit 'cop killer' steel core bullet (that you can still get for rifles).

Soon tasers will be used to rob banks and gas stations. You can incapacitate everyone easily with enough tasers, and the dude will open the vault if you just apply enough voltage. Then, if you are caught, you didn't even use a deadly weapon in the crime.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[mnealtx 0]

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I watched on one of the morning news shows this morn. about a lady that is throwing Taser parties like they were tupperware. Now every Joe Blow can start tasering everybody that offends them somehow. Tasering-- Not just for Policemen anymore. Hell they even come in pink. Gotta be fashion aware and color coordinated.

Yes, but "civilian" tasers shoot a shorter distance than police tasers. I suppose that this is so that in a cop/civilian taser 'showdown at the o.k. corral" the police have the upper hand.

I think it's like making civilian bullets less effective than cop bullets, which we don't do, other than the bullshit 'cop killer' steel core bullet (that you can still get for rifles).

Soon tasers will be used to rob banks and gas stations. You can incapacitate everyone easily with enough tasers, and the dude will open the vault if you just apply enough voltage. Then, if you are caught, you didn't even use a deadly weapon in the crime.

Actually, your point about civilian ammo is untrue. There's still plenty of stuff out there that is "LEO only".

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Zipp0 1]

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I watched on one of the morning news shows this morn. about a lady that is throwing Taser parties like they were tupperware. Now every Joe Blow can start tasering everybody that offends them somehow. Tasering-- Not just for Policemen anymore. Hell they even come in pink. Gotta be fashion aware and color coordinated.

Yes, but "civilian" tasers shoot a shorter distance than police tasers. I suppose that this is so that in a cop/civilian taser 'showdown at the o.k. corral" the police have the upper hand.

I think it's like making civilian bullets less effective than cop bullets, which we don't do, other than the bullshit 'cop killer' steel core bullet (that you can still get for rifles).

Soon tasers will be used to rob banks and gas stations. You can incapacitate everyone easily with enough tasers, and the dude will open the vault if you just apply enough voltage. Then, if you are caught, you didn't even use a deadly weapon in the crime.

Actually, your point about civilian ammo is untrue. There's still plenty of stuff out there that is "LEO only".

Like what? I have steel core, tracer, and HE Incendiary rounds in the ammo can, among others. My understanding is that LEO only ammo is marketing hype, not law.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[airtwardo 7]

I think it's like making civilian bullets less effective than cop bullets, which we don't do, other than the bullshit 'cop killer' steel core bullet (that you can still get for rifles).

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Actually...'cop killer' bullets are Teflon jacketed, they zip through Kevlar vests, thus the name.

http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel200403010926.asp

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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