What does it take to Get Demoted in Rank?!?!

[Unstable 9]

This is a serious question - I'll put it in SC in case the military issue raises some discussion.

What does it take for a soldier to get demoted in rank? A good friend of mine's Husband, an Intelligence clerk in Iraq, was just demoted 2 ranks and now he can never be alone, on duty, or off, until he returns home. Is this common at all in Iraq? Is there a significant difference from being demoted 1 rank or two?

I'm trying to get an idea for what kind of soldier he is. His wife, a good friend of mine, doesn't know about this yet, as he was really low on the totem pole to begin with (I'm thinking E4, he's been in for about 2 years, but he wasn't moving up at all.)

What are some things that would warrent a demotion? Does anybody know personally where a demotion was issued?

=========Shaun ==========

[lawrocket 3]

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he can never be alone, on duty, or off, until he returns home

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an Intelligence clerk in Iraq

My suspicions? Saying or writing a little too much in e-mails, etc.

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I had a soldier get in serious trouble for doing an idiotic thing. Out at Pendleton, he dumped some used oil by the beach instead of disposing of it properly.

He was E-5, demoted to E-1 and discharged. His Platoon Sergeant, I'm told, advised him to go to Mexico because about 7 governmental agencies (Federal, state and local) went after him.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

Getting busted a rank or two isn't that tough. Something as simple as participating in a bar brawl, shoving an officer (to keep him from killing himself and a dozen enlisted men), or simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time can do it. Busts can be doled out as nonjudicial punishment at the command level (i.e. not a criminal conviction). In such cases, the burden of proof is minimal, as is the opportunity to defend yourself, and the frequency with which they are handed out will vary dramatically between commands.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Unstable 9]

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My suspicions? Saying or writing a little too much in e-mails, etc.

That was my guess, but I just don't know enough bout the system to be sure...

=========Shaun ==========

[cjunken 0]

Had buddy lose one rank for looking at porn on duty in Kosovo.

[GQ_jumper 4]

Being an E4 it takes little to nothing to get knocked down a peg or two, your commander can sign off on it because promotions at that level are handled within the company and battalion. Simply showwing up late for work too many times can do it, a long string of seemingly minor discipline issues can be rolled into one if each of them was documented.

And the thing about not getting off work, he was most likely given a field grade article 15 and part of the punishment that typcally goes along with that is 45 days restriction to the barracks and duty area, and 45 days of extra duty, which basically means you get off work and go do menial tasks like rake leaves and take out trash until its time for you to crash. every good soldier IMO has at least one of these under their belt, the soldiers that are too good can't be trusted under fire, I'll take a team of guys with criminal records and tarnished records for knocking out know it all officers any day of the week.

Overal this is nothing to worry about in the long run, it's a kick in the balls now but you can recover. I had one when I was young and I still made E7 in 7 years.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Para_Frog 1]

Yeah, E-4 and below is done up or down at the Company level. I just busted a guy twice in two months for AWOL...he also happens to be a shitbag.

Empirically speaking - the soldier you speak of is either:

A. A complete shitbag.
AND/OR
B. Did something very very bad unrelated to work.

If he's on a constant accompanyment order - I doubt it's a release of intel. It's probably a little worse and involves violence to himself or others. The last time I saw it was a sexual assault.

My .02 - but I'm just a measly XO.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[Zipp0 1]

Things must have changed since Gulf War 1. When I was in the Navy it seemed pretty hard to get knocked down in Rank. If you were a good sailor overall they would overlook stupid small stuff, but if you were a fuck-up they would get sick of it and use that same kind of small BS to screw with you. I was a good sailor and my one encounter with XO mast resulted in a dismissal and no record of the incident. Had I been a screw-up it probably would have been a different outcome.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Para_Frog 1]

It's changed a LOT since GW1. Back then (I was a Marine CPL) - 99% of issues were handled through wall-to-wall counseling.

No more. The pussification of the services has been staggering. I get bitched at by 06s all the time for being too "hard"

Let's see...how long til I retire? I say that - but I have a very hard time leaving the kids who don't know shit.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[bozo 0]

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Getting busted a rank or two isn't that tough. Blues,
Dave

Two ranks.....during wartime...in a combat zone ?
I disagree , Dave.
He did a major fuckup....insubordination , sleeping on watch.....something non criminal for sure but still semi-major.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[Zipp0 1]

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It's changed a LOT since GW1. Back then (I was a Marine CPL) - 99% of issues were handled through wall-to-wall counseling.

No more. The pussification of the services has been staggering. I get bitched at by 06s all the time for being too "hard"

Let's see...how long til I retire? I say that - but I have a very hard time leaving the kids who don't know shit.

How is it pussification if counseling has been replaced by hard punishment, like reducing rank?

Maybe they have to be more harcore with busts since they are letting in people that would have been passed over a few years ago?

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Para_Frog 1]

That's what makes it pussification my friend.

Leaders are so afraid of their own shadows that they are afraid to handle things internally. Must involve the right forms afterall.

There's a spectacular article entitled A Failure in Generalship that addresses the breakdown of basic soldiering in the services and it's replacement with bureaucracy.

I call it pussification - AKA a failure of leadership.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[vortexring 0]

This is a bit of a long Brit story, but here we go:

My mate originated in the HCR - a bit of a gayer non-ferocious British regiment, but there you go.
He told me a story which took place in North Carolina in '96 if I remember right. I was there too - but not involved.

Ok - two important points:
the band KLF had a popular song at the time called; 'Doctor Who.' If you've never heard of the song, or of Doctor Who, you've never lived mate.
There were a lot of the small plastic portable toilets provided. Coloured blue. I'm sure you know the type. Literally bursting at the seams with piss, poo, bacteria, used toilet roll and blue anti poo dye.

Anyway, this victim decides to go and vist the said device for a poo. Unfortunately, his so called mates tie a rope around the door trapping him inside. Pushing the 'Tardis', or what's now known as the 'Turdis' on its side, they proceed to push along the toilet box on its side, with the poor victim stuck inside; singing 'Doctor Who - oo!!'

Poor lad eventually bursts out covered in piss, poo, used bog roll and blue poo ink. Nasty!

Reduced two ranks; promoted a few months later!

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[TrophyHusband 0]

things must vary from command to command. i was in the navy from 92-98. it seemed to be rare that someone made it to e-5 without going to mast. my division liked to handle things internally, plus i was good at not getting caught doing anything wrong, but i watched many chiefs take their own people to captain's mast. i always felt that this showed weak leadership on the part of the chiefs. i had a chief who would fight tooth and nail to keep his own people away from captain's mast, but would make life hell for the sailor for a while.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[TrophyHusband 0]

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every good soldier IMO has at least one of these under their belt, the soldiers that are too good can't be trusted under fire,

there's a difference between being goodie-goodie and being good enough not to get caught.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[vortexring 0]

The crimes always being caught. Don't be caught!

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[ExAFO 0]

I got a SrA demoted to Amn for beating up his pregnant girlfriend. 1 hard bust, one suspended for 12mos. He did it again within six weeks. I then vacated the second stripe. I then got him a "Big Chicken Dinner."*








*Bad Conduct Discharge.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[GQ_jumper 4]

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every good soldier IMO has at least one of these under their belt, the soldiers that are too good can't be trusted under fire,

there's a difference between being goodie-goodie and being good enough not to get caught.

No I'll respect a guy that's good enough not to get caught, props to them for being good at what they do, I've had people that were so honest I couldn't trust em. I want a guy with a sketchy past next to me when things go bad, they've always proved their worth.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[misaltas 0]

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shoving an officer (to keep him from killing himself and a dozen enlisted men)

Why does it seem there's more to that story than you're letting on?

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Busts can be doled out as nonjudicial punishment at the command level (i.e. not a criminal conviction). In such cases, the burden of proof is minimal, as is the opportunity to defend yourself

a. Didn't do anything wrong? Turn down the NJP. It works.
b. Did something wrong? Then thank your lucky stars that the UCMJ provides NJP as a quicker and less costly way to pay for your misconduct.

Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts

[warpedskydiver 0]

Constant accompanyment, as in a NCO with a rifle, and not removing his headgear?

[kschilk 0]

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every good soldier IMO has at least one of these under their belt, the soldiers that are too good can't be trusted under fire,

there's a difference between being goodie-goodie and being good enough not to get caught.

...and also, in having the initiative and purpose, not to care if you get caught or not....just complete the mission.

"T'was ever thus."

[warpedskydiver 0]

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every good soldier IMO has at least one of these under their belt, the soldiers that are too good can't be trusted under fire,

there's a difference between being goodie-goodie and being good enough not to get caught.

No I'll respect a guy that's good enough not to get caught, props to them for being good at what they do, I've had people that were so honest I couldn't trust em. I want a guy with a sketchy past next to me when things go bad, they've always proved their worth.

[Zipp0 1]

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That's what makes it pussification my friend.

Leaders are so afraid of their own shadows that they are afraid to handle things internally. Must involve the right forms afterall.

There's a spectacular article entitled A Failure in Generalship that addresses the breakdown of basic soldiering in the services and it's replacement with bureaucracy.

I call it pussification - AKA a failure of leadership.

Ah, I get it. Back in 88-92 it seemed that every E-7 and above liked to handle their own issues. Any above that level acted like kings in their own little kingdoms and didn't worry about "the right way" and just did whatever the hell they wanted. It actually worked fairly well.

In my division they tended to protect their people, except if you were a TOTAL ass. I went to mast when I was doing my time in the galley, working outside my own division. When home on leave I had a terrible toothache and my mom gave me 2 of her tylenol 3's. Piss test the day I got back to the ship. I told them about it at the time but it didn't matter.

A visit to the ship's dentist with verification of a tooth that needed pulled and no prior BS confirmed that I wasn't a codeine addict.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[jheadley 0]

What does an officer need to do to get demoted?

[GQ_jumper 4]

What does an officer need to do to get demoted?

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A LOT, an officer's comission comes from the Pres. so it takes a lot to knock em down.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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