Fuck you American healthcare system

[sfc 1]

Quote

I live in a predominantly white suburban area about 10 minutes from NASA. I also have full medical coverage. Last night I drove down the street to get some food, and while in the parking lot, I suddenly felt really dizzy, the ground gave way, and I found myself collapsing unto the ground. I stumbled back to the car, waited a bit, and drove home. I then had my roommate take me to the emergency room to see what’s problem. There I was told it will take 6-8 hours to see a doctor.
I waited for 4 hours, but couldn’t handle sitting up any more, so I ended up just leaving, so I can go lie down in a bed. Needless to say I never got to see the doctor. So here is a big fuck you, privatized American healthcare system. Next time I have an emergency I am going back to Canada, where I never had to wait more than 2 hours to get FREE help.

Hey Mike,
You should come back to the Bay Area, I took my son to the emergency room a few months ago with a split lip and he was being stitched up within 20 mins of getting there, it was 9am on a tuesday, the waiting room was empty.
Have to say the UK (where I started out life) is good too, I have an older son there who I rushed in with meningitis, he had 10 doctors and more nurses than I can count in 15mins, and he survived.
Same child with meningitis had a fall on vacation in Portugal and again perfect zero wait time while he had stitches in his nose, good care with no cost (other than my taxes) and no paperwork.

I think it has more to do with what part of the country you live in than the country itself, although not having to deal with blood sucking money hungry hospital accountants who count the number of band aids you use when your child is sick is really nice and one thing I miss from back home in the UK.

In the UK I paid about 10% tax for "national insurance" which is supposed to cover health care and a state pension, and the employer payed the same, there was a maximum monthly limit as to how much you had to pay. No co-pays, and no deductibles.
In the US I pay 6.25%, plus 1.25ish% for medicaid, my employer pays 6.25%, there is also a yearly limit. Me and my employer also pay a huge amount (at least 6%) for my medical insurance, I also have to pay co-pays and deductibles for visits (several $1000 dollars last year and my family of 4 is very healthy). Medical care in the USA cost me and my employer more than it did in the UK and from my experience the level of care is very similar. I think I got better value for my money in the UK than I do in the USA, doesn't want me want to move back though, the same American dream I am chasing is what the insurance companies use to get wealthy off our health care.

The only thing that really annoys me about the USA health care is that people who don't pay do get care and the money to pay for them comes out of my insurance payments, if everyone was taxed for health care then fewer people would be taking health care for free.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

well that is where we disagree - I think the government's primary responsibilities should be to feed the people, educate the people and provide healthcare for the people.

Pretty much everything else is optional. the 'right to life' is in the constitution that you so stanchly uphold.....

Anyone can have an accident, very few can afford the consequences of it.....

TK

Since you're talking about the Constitution, maybe you can show me just WHERE it explicitly states that the government is responsible for "feeding the people, educating the people and providing healthcare for the people"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

The fact that I have heart issues and I still have insurance says a lot about hw much I have to pay for it. I expect first rate service. Many people in my position are not as lucky as I am. Most people in this country cannot have insurance if you have heart problems. Isn't it fucked up in itself?

Bull - that's what triage is for, to determine who gets treated first. Get your "I *pay* for my healthcare so I should go first" socialized medicine mindset straightened out first.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

How do they kill each other without guns? I thought banning guns would end that sort of thing.

Pay attention to what richards wrote, instead of making up your own version of Canadian laws.

Or your own version of guns causing murders, perhaps?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

What's the alternative? Most lawyers are theproblem, a few actually help. Layers are, as a rule, parasites.

Heck, he's well-educated and works hard for a good living. THAT person would not be a parasite, imho. The parasite is the one who does NOT prepare himself in life, does NOT have a job that pays the bills, and sits around whining about the ills of the "system" because those that DO fend for themselves don't want to pay everybody else's way too.

YAY, DOC LINZ!!!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

I don't envy lawyers, they're under a lot of pressure and eventually I think most have bouts of conscious for the lies they perpetuate. SOmethng happens and they have a paradigm shift.

I smell either a divorcee' who should've gotten himself a better attorney, someone who resented being held responsible for their actions, or someone who lets talk radio hosts do his thinking for him.

Your senses are all fucked up. I'm the plaintiff - I know, hard to believe that I could have been wronged, I'm a poor person, must be frivalous. No, some scumbags robbed me, been over 5 years now and still litigating.

I sense a typical fascist that would rather see homeless dying in the streets than taxes raised $20 a year to get them off the streets. Swell guy you are.......

[Lucky... 0]

And if you didn't have it due to temp being out of work, taking care of parents or kids, etc., then you would be destitute and perhaps homeless. Yea, and you believe in Christianity yet advocate Darwinism - you're confused.

I wouldn't consider myself angry, I was before I understood the system, now I'm just disgusted and want to leave as soon as practicable. I believe that many will.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

What's the alternative? Most lawyers are theproblem, a few actually help. Layers are, as a rule, parasites.

Heck, he's well-educated and works hard for a good living. THAT person would not be a parasite, imho. The parasite is the one who does NOT prepare himself in life, does NOT have a job that pays the bills, and sits around whining about the ills of the "system" because those that DO fend for themselves don't want to pay everybody else's way too.

I'm not directing this at LR, as I wrote, "as a rule." As for hard-working, who cares? The Enron guys were probably hard working, scheming how to rip retirements from the workers they employ. Hard work doesn't mean a positive all thetime, it's the type of work you do that matters.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The parasite is the one who does NOT prepare himself in life, does NOT have a job that pays the bills, and sits around whining about the ills of the "system" because those that DO fend for themselves don't want to pay everybody else's way too.

So I guess disabled people w/o insurance are parasites. FUCKING BRILLIANT.

BTW, I realize that little brilliance was directed at me, I am a vet, have a degree and work 50-60 hrs a week, so I'm sorry to impeach your brilliance.

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>Since you're talking about the Constitution, maybe you can show me just WHERE it explicitly states that the government is responsible for "feeding the people, educating the people and providing healthcare for the people"


And where does it state we need to put up traffic lights, build roads and a myriad of other svs? In fact it doesn't make provisions for a standing army, does it?

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Since you're talking about the Constitution, maybe you can show me just WHERE it explicitly states that the government is responsible for "feeding the people, educating the people and providing healthcare for the people"

I'm obviously not [tkhayes] ...

Two places:

The Preamble:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

And

Article 1, Section 8.

“The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;”

Those same lines have been used to justify/rationalize missile defense {multiple times}, to support science & technology for defense applications, to criticize President Bill Clinton’s defense budgets, and to criticize President George Bush’s defense and foreign policy strategy.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

In fact it doesn't make provisions for a standing army, does it?

Continuing in Article 1, Section 8

"Powers of Congress

"To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

"To provide and maintain a Navy;

"To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

"To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

Quote

How do they kill each other without guns? I thought banning guns would end that sort of thing.

Pay attention to what richards wrote, instead of making up your own version of Canadian laws.

Or your own version of guns causing murders, perhaps?

Guns don't cause murders - gun users with guns cause gun murders. Careless gun owners allow criminals and madmen to cause gun murders. Selfish gun owners resist any changes that make it more difficult for criminals and madmen to get guns and cause gun murders.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

And if you didn't have it due to temp being out of work, taking care of parents or kids, etc., then you would be destitute and perhaps homeless. Yea, and you believe in Christianity yet advocate Darwinism - you're confused

No, I wouldn't. I've been taught how to take care of myself and if I was destitute; I've got family who would step in.

What the hell does me being a Christian have to do with this topic? Don't assume what I believe in regard to darwinism.

Here's a suggestion for you: Give up skydiving, sell your gear, disconnect your internet and perhaps you'll have enough money to buy your own insurance and not have to bitch about the 'system' not taking care of you.

_________________________________________
Chris

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Say what you want about the Canadian system, and sure, Canadians gripe about it too, but NO ONE in Canada would give it up for a privatized system......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Except those in Canada who come to the US for treatment.

I think you'll find that most of those would still not give up the current Canadian system, but would rather see a hybrid version.

A version where the current level of health care remains, but where private clinics and hospitals are allowed to excist. This would allow those with the means to afford it directly or through additial health insurance to seek care from a private facility and would reduce wait times in the national system.

Lawrocket, in response to a later post you made in this thread regarding health insurance and premiums. Is the deductible cumulative on an annual basis or is it per occurance? If it is per occurance, your math looks completely different if you factor in multiple hospital vists below the deductible limit.

[mnealtx 0]

You have deductibles and then you have max-out-of-pocket. You pay the deductible each visit up to the max out of pocket, then anything further is covered 100%

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Right, so if he goes with a $7,000 deductible, and has 5 hospital visists that each cost $6,500, his math would look significantly different.

(and 5 hospital vists with a small family would not be unheard of)

[wmw999 2,447]

There are co-pays and there are deductibles.

A deductible is an annual out-of-pocket sum that you have to pay before the insurance kicks in.

A co-pay is a fee that you pay for each visit, procedure, or prescription. It normally doesn't go towards your deductible. For a family unit, there are two figures associated with deductible -- the per-person, and the family. So if you have (for example) 4 people in a family, one of whom has serious health problems, you satisfy the per-person deductible for that person, and everyone else keeps paying on the family deductible. Then when the family deductible is reached (normally twice the per-person), then everyone is covered by the insurance. That way a family with 8 children won't have to pay 10 deductibles.

Each of them is designed to get the individual with insurance to think about the consequences of their health decisions and habits, and to share some of the financial burden. The insurance company loses money on each person who "gets a good deal" out of their insurance. It's the nature of the beast.

So I have a feeling that lawrocket's $7000 deductible is a per-family one, with the $3500 being the per-person (or whatever it was). And $7000 is the max out-of-pocket that his family has to pay in a given year. Which means that the occasional cold and stitches will be paid for by lawrocket, but the broken leg will be covered mostly by insurance.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.

[Richards 0]

Quote

People expect doctors to be ALL KNOWING, ALWAY AVAILABLE, PERFECT AND PRECISE. But then also expect them to do this for what kind of pay and sacrifice?

True and it amazes me how quickly people will condemn a doctor for being merely human. Had a tendon cut on a job and the emergency room doctor made a mistake that cuased some pain and discomfort almost a year later which resulted in a second surgury (where the next doctor confirmed that the first doctor had in fact fucked up). I had some pain, didn't miss work because I did graveyard shifts so I went for surgury in the morning. I could not beleive how many people were insisting that I sue this poor guy becuase he made a mistake that merely cost me some minor pain, inconvenience and some time in a bandage and stitches. It never crossed my mind. If he had been drunk on duty or consciously did something that he knew was wrong and caused me real losses then yes but I could not fathom that everyone felt I should sue the guy over this.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[pop 0]

Quote

Quote

well that is where we disagree - I think the government's primary responsibilities should be to feed the people, educate the people and provide healthcare for the people.

Pretty much everything else is optional. the 'right to life' is in the constitution that you so stanchly uphold.....

Anyone can have an accident, very few can afford the consequences of it.....

TK

Since you're talking about the Constitution, maybe you can show me just WHERE it explicitly states that the government is responsible for "feeding the people, educating the people and providing healthcare for the people"

t doesnt. But i do believe that every government shuold better its inhabitants by educating then and keeping them healthy. It's better to have a smart healthy country, then to have a country full of sick dumb people.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[pop 0]

Quote

Quote

The fact that I have heart issues and I still have insurance says a lot about hw much I have to pay for it. I expect first rate service. Many people in my position are not as lucky as I am. Most people in this country cannot have insurance if you have heart problems. Isn't it fucked up in itself?

Bull - that's what triage is for, to determine who gets treated first. Get your "I *pay* for my healthcare so I should go first" socialized medicine mindset straightened out first.

If I live in a system where we have to pay for insurance, I expect to be seen before the guy who doesnt pay.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

The fact that I have heart issues and I still have insurance says a lot about hw much I have to pay for it. I expect first rate service. Many people in my position are not as lucky as I am. Most people in this country cannot have insurance if you have heart problems. Isn't it fucked up in itself?

Bull - that's what triage is for, to determine who gets treated first. Get your "I *pay* for my healthcare so I should go first" socialized medicine mindset straightened out first.

If I live in a system where we have to pay for insurance, I expect to be seen before the guy who doesnt pay.

Sorry - as explained a couple times already, it doesn't work that way. The person in the worst shape gets dibs.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[livendive 8]

Quote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Say what you want about the Canadian system, and sure, Canadians gripe about it too, but NO ONE in Canada would give it up for a privatized system......


And if people tried it here it would be here to stay, that's what worries the NAzis

Have you ever been to the DMV? I have, and I've seen how well the government takes care of the governed. I have zero interest in seeing my healthcare decline to that level of service. I've worked hard all my life, and have earned my good job, decent insurance, and some level of freedom in making my healthcare decisions. Why do you think the quality of my healthcare should decline? Why do you think I should be responsible for paying for the healthcare of people who haven't worked as hard as I have?

I'm not opposed to the idea of basic healthcare being available and affordable to everyone, provided it has substantial controls in place to prevent abuse, but I'm quite opposed to any sort of mandatory system, or being required to pay for stupid shit. A gal I know who works in the ER routinely sees women come in for pregnancy tests. On the nights she's working triage, she points out the door at the Rite-Aid across the street and suggests they pick up a pregnancy test there for 10 or 15 bucks instead of burning through several hundred in the ER. The answer is always some variant of the same thing..."Yeah, but the state won't pay for that and they will pay for this."

I don't want to support that kind of selfish fucktardedness.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

A gal I know who works in the ER routinely sees women come in for pregnancy tests. On the nights she's working triage, she points out the door at the Rite-Aid across the street and suggests they pick up a pregnancy test there for 10 or 15 bucks instead of burning through several hundred in the ER. The answer is always some variant of the same thing..."Yeah, but the state won't pay for that and they will pay for this."

She should tell them about Planned Parenthood, if there is one in the area. They provide free pregnancy tests for people who can't afford to pay, and the wait would probably be a lot shorter than in the ER.

[ExAFO 0]

Quote

A gal I know who works in the ER routinely sees women come in for pregnancy tests. On the nights she's working triage, she points out the door at the Rite-Aid across the street and suggests they pick up a pregnancy test there for 10 or 15 bucks instead of burning through several hundred in the ER. The answer is always some variant of the same thing..."Yeah, but the state won't pay for that and they will pay for this."

This is a prime example of why I should not have my pocket picked for others' healthcare.

Shit heads.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.