kallend 2,106 #351 February 7, 2008 Quote Quote These two sides will NEVER see eye to eye. But instead of the constant bickering, I have to ask ... is there any way to make healthcare more affordable? Or is everything in life "for profit". The current US Healthcare model wouldn't be so bad if more people could afford it. But it is too expensive for millions of people. I'm not that smart, but maybe a solution lies in looking beyond "healthcare is a for profit" business. The bureaucrats of the private insurance companies and the bureaucrats of government are not all that different. Neither one gives a rats ass about the people who need healthcare. I think you've got a good point, but the first thing that comes to mind is this: Teaching is an admirable profession, and helpful to many people, yet an awful lot of otherwise talented people avoid it because it isn't particularly lucrative. Well, I'd say that depends on the level at which you teach. To become a university professor with tenure (meaning you actually made it into the profession) takes just as long as it does to finish med school + residency. And the pay isn't at all bad if you're in the right field, like engineering or law (but sucks if you teach history)... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #352 February 8, 2008 That's sad, but that what you get with the "me, me, me" mentality. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And that "me, me, me" mentality is EXACTLY what you've been displaying all through this thread, Mike!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- H Quote Have I been displaying that? I play by the rules. I complain about people who dont, but get same level of service that I have to pay for.Where do you think Hillary wants to take the healthcare system? She sees people who do nothing to contribute to society as a huge voting block to be pandered to. Once all of the do nothings realize that they only have to go sit in a room and get whatever they ask for...... Well! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #353 February 8, 2008 Quote Have we? All I see is people who've accepted one form of government handout claiming that it's not a handout when they got it, but it is a handout if someone less fortunate than themselves gets it.Since most money for education is collected on the local level, the only children who have received a handout are those whose parents are not paying property tax, unless they are paying the dummie's tax; aka state lottery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,075 #354 February 8, 2008 > You already said broken arm should. Broken neck? Emergent care - yes. Long term care - no. >Bypass? No. >Spine damage and following three weeks in intensive care unit? Emergent care - yes. Long term care - no. >Brain surgery? No. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,075 #355 February 8, 2008 >She sees people who do nothing to contribute to society as a huge >voting block to be pandered to. Exactly. Next thing you know, she'll be mailing them checks. Only a completely loony liberal would mail people checks of their own money! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #356 February 8, 2008 Quote Quote I'm a born American. I would have sworn English is not your first language. Why would you claim that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #357 February 8, 2008 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>No, a non-self-centered person wouldn't "want" anything! "Want" is a selfish thing. A selfish person would fight for that. Wrong. It's ok to want, but to want way more for yourself and act as if you have special priv is greedy. Non-self-centered people want a fair distribution for all. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>At a minimum, "selflessness" is doing with yours and not with that of others. So, again, how many families are you paying health care for? Yes, including your own. Selfishness is telling others to do what you won't do yourself. Selfishness is also self-anointing. We've been a debtor nation for at least 170 years, no one is paying for anyone, we havebeen in the cards for almost 2 centuries. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You are selfishness defined. And, it's no insult. There's nothing wrong with that. The only thing wrong is insisting that you are not. To want kids to have coverage for starters establishes I'm not selfish, as I don't have kids. o want all to have coverage isn't selfish either, but to want med ins to be exclusive, for those who have it, is selfish comming from those who do have it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #358 February 8, 2008 Quote Quote Quote To all: Where does it stop? We pay enough tax as it is. I have no problem sustaining the existing (albeit too heavy) tax burden, but... When does all this socialist bullshit stop? Healthcare would dwarf most any other social program. Take care of your own fucking needs. Enough is enough. We pay less tax than most other countries. Uh, BTW, universal care would be HEAVILY DWARFED by your president's military. Since the war we've spent about 700B per year counting normal spending and war appropriations. Uni care would be what, 1/2 that? Try again...... 700B....enough is too much. No, it would be added into all the OTHER welfare spending that is the largest part of the budget... Our tax rate and rate of welfare spending is way lower than most, if not all other developed countries, Our military spending is greater than teh rest of the world counting the war hobby spending. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #359 February 8, 2008 Quote Emergent care - yes. Long term care - no. Some people are just going to be piss poor even if they are working. What if they need insulin? What if there is an injury that requires therapy? Schizophrenia medicine? Are there not societal benefits to be derived from providing long term care? Again, the problem up here in Canada doesn't seem to be the long term care so much as the abuse (needless visits) and expectations of the kinds of things to be covered (neccessities vs niceties) My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #360 February 8, 2008 Quote Exactly. Next thing you know, she'll be mailing them checks. Only a completely loony liberal would mail people checks of their own money! Heinlein once wrote that the critical Flaw in a Democracy was that sooner or Later the politicians figure out they can buy your votes with your own money!So true, So very true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #361 February 8, 2008 Quote Emergent care - yes. Long term care - no. Basically the current system has the following problems: - People cannot afford healthcare (but do not qualify for Medicare either), or do not want to pay for it. They now abuse ERs. On this basic care system they will abuse basic care rooms to get stuff they cannot get from ERs, and will continue to abuse ERs for everything else. - People with pre-existing conditions cannot get insurance, and go bankrupt and do not pay hospitals after serious illness like bypass or brain surgery. This is not going to change either, since basic care is not paying for this. Basically, long-term care and chronical illness seems to be the thing which draws the costs out of system, and makes people go bancrupt. I do not see how basic care system would change it.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #362 February 8, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Healthcare is a govornments' responsability. Not a corporations'. In your opinion, obviously. I personally think that healthcare is an INDIVIDUAL's responsibility. I'm even for a limited government role...though I don't think it's the government's *responsibility*. I think that the government can take on the role of providing a health "safety net" if the citizens decide that's what they'd like to do. It's altruism....not responsibility, imho. linz I bet you treat your paying patients like your non-payers. Hey Linz, let's shoot for Bush's liability cap so you can get rich and stay that way easier. Oh well, as long as you're practicing your, uh, love, that's all that matters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #363 February 8, 2008 Quote Quote In your opinion, obviously. yes obviously, if you want to consider your country great. eg. I understand the Tanzanian govornment can't go and pay for every citizen to go to the doctor. But the USA should be able to, if it want to be considerd the great country it makes itself out to be. Break your arm in my country and it will cost you absolutely nothing for the treatment, even if you are a tourist! no insrance nessescary. I was operated on within 8 hours of breaking my arm and that included a hour ride in a helecopter. The money is there for all this, but it could be doing the right thing or sitting an some fat cats bank account! And they get pissed when I call the US fascist POS. Can't wait to be the fuck outta here. Hillarious tho, the greedy cocksuckers here get theirs, they ae so foolish the garbage they elect ensures their cash is confederate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #364 February 8, 2008 Quote Quote The money is there for all this, but it could be doing the right thing or sitting an some fat cats bank account! I disagree with mnealtx's assessment of your statement. I think you've proven instead that you think very little of the concept of private property. Some fat cat's bank account? You wish you were that fat cat, don't you? Honestly, where do you envious and spiteful types get the nerve to lay claim to someone else's money? I'm glad I'm not that pathetic sounding. Yo president has been stealing the cash from everyone's kids, grandkids, etc...... so apparently you agree with stealing cash. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,075 #365 February 8, 2008 >What if they need insulin? What if there is an injury that requires therapy? >Schizophrenia medicine? Then they use one of the many methods available for people nowadays to get such care. >Are there not societal benefits to be derived from providing long >term care? Yep, just as there are societal benefits for getting people to exercise, to stop smoking, to not eat red meat and to save money. But I don't think we as a society should pay for (or mandate) those things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #366 February 8, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Would you feel better if I mailed you a check? Um, no, but next time you'rin chrch taling about loving your fellow man, pls stand up and say that there are limits, we can only love them until it comes to collectively caring for each other. If someone is going to die or is is disabled, etc and they don't have insurance, well, fuck em. Don;t worry, this will draw great applause, as most of your church-going contemporaries feel the same way. You never did say how much of your take-home pay you're sending in extra to support all those folks, being the great collectivist that you are - care to give us a number? I'm sending my tax dollars to your president so he can further the hate from the world to us and kill our young heros, etc... I'd love to have my taxes pay for the poor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #367 February 8, 2008 Quote I bet you treat your paying patients like your non-payers. Hey Linz, let's shoot for Bush's liability cap so you can get rich and stay that way easier. Oh well, as long as you're practicing your, uh, love, that's all that matters Ya know what, Lucky, I DO treat the paying like my non-paying. Someone gave my sister care when she was pregnant and had nothing, and I give that back.... but I, personally, don't need to work for every dollar to pay back my loans and my group is very tolerant of me not bringing in all the high dollar insurance customers. BUT.... my treatment of patients on a personal level has very little to do with what I want the government to mandate. Similar to the fact that I enjoy doing medical missions but would resent it if Peru said "America, you NEED to send doctors here to take care of us." Where do the DEMANDS end? Giving is one thing. Having it taken is another. I will gladly give. But the coercion is NOT acceptable. And caps on liability . . . . that's a whole different debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #368 February 8, 2008 Quote greedy cocksuckers Oxymoron alert! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #369 February 8, 2008 Quote Quote >What if they need insulin? What if there is an injury that requires therapy? >Schizophrenia medicine? Then they use one of the many methods available for people nowadays to get such care. Are there resources for the extremely poor to get those? Not trying to sound like a bleeding heart lib (can't stand entitlement culture) but it just seems like it could limit some people to always being ill. Am I missing something here? Not that familiar with your system. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,075 #370 February 8, 2008 >Are there resources for the extremely poor to get those? Medicaid provides assistance to low-income parents, children, seniors, and people with disabilities. It's a state-run system, with some requirements imposed by the feds. Medicare is a federal system that helps older people with medical problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #371 February 8, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong Bill, but isn't Medicare part of the Social Security system? If so, then it is not an entitlement program. I also believe SS recipients do pay a monthly premium for Medicare. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #372 February 8, 2008 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>BUT.... my treatment of patients on a personal level has very little to do with what I want the government to mandate. Hmmm, not nothing, I think you answered my question. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Similar to the fact that I enjoy doing medical missions but would resent it if Peru said "America, you NEED to send doctors here to take care of us." Caring for our own and caring for other people of other countries are quite different to most normal people. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Giving is one thing. Having it taken is another. It isn't mine, yours or anyone's, we have been a debtor nation for 170 years, uni care won't affect you a bit, but perhaps shave your elitist salary. Great to have docs care so much for humanity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>And caps on liability . . . . that's a whole different debate. Of course we want that to keeop the classes seperated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #373 February 8, 2008 Quote perhaps shave your elitist salary. Great to have docs care so much for humanity Dude... you have no idea what my salary is. Your self-rightous assumptions are getting old And WTH about the comment on my caring for humanity. You have no clue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,075 #374 February 8, 2008 > but isn't Medicare part of the Social Security system? If so, then it is > not an entitlement program. It is part of the SS system. It's paid for by a separate tax on employees/employers. I don't know what you mean by "entitlement program." >I also believe SS recipients do pay a monthly premium for Medicare. Many parts of Medicare cover all or part of hospitalization/outpatient treatment without any additional payments into the program, although they often do not cover 100% of the cost. Part C ('medicare advantage') allows you to participate in basically a subsidized medical insurance program - that's the part where you have to pay a monthly premium. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #375 February 8, 2008 Quote Quote perhaps shave your elitist salary. Great to have docs care so much for humanity Dude... you have no idea what my salary is. Your self-rightous assumptions are getting old And WTH about the comment on my caring for humanity. You have no clue. You want medical care to be exlusive...... draw your own conclusions Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
