Fuck you American healthcare system

[rhys 0]

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I still argue your points.

Now call me a commie conspiracy theorist, but I just watched 'Sicko' the new Michael Moore film and it points out exactly the points I was trying to get at about this subject.

What are your thoughts on this film. Looked pretty black and white to me.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[kbordson 8]

I've seen that movie. Some points, but most of it a spectacular MOVIE and complete lack of journalistic integrity. Michael Moore has no respect from me. Quoting him gets you no brownie points or style credit.

Sense and nonsense from Sicko. By Ronald M. Davis, MD

The above link is an eloquent discussion of the faults of the film.

[kbordson 8]

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I still argue your points.

Now call me a commie conspiracy theorist, but I just watched 'Sicko' the new Michael Moore film and it points out exactly the points I was trying to get at about this subject.

What are your thoughts on this film. Looked pretty black and white to me.

besides... that movie doesn't counter the fact that if I get hurt in NZ, I do NOT get free care as you have been stating. The websites sponsored by your country are a bit more reliable as a source of reference than Michael Moore.

[rhys 0]

Go Back, look at your links and information,

Look under injuries...... find ACC. This page I found in 3 clicks from your link;

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/acc-media-centre/faqs/MDC_00087

so therefore....

Any person receiving medical assistance from the govornment system, due to an injury sutained in New Zealand, will not recieve a bill, they may have to pay a subsidised amount for pharmacueticals however, once they leave the hospital/medical centre.
Ambulance, aneathatist, seargons, drugs, physiotherapy are all covererd...no bills.
Why can't you beleive that. It is actually true in many countries.

Litigation or lack there of is another reason we don't have to pay so much. If you accept assistance from ACC you forfeit the right to sue.


Now back to the actual subject....

Don't you feel the corporations in The USA have a firm grip on what happens in the healthcare system there?

If the govornment deesn't provide healthcare, who will? and what would be the reason they would want to do so.

My answers to the last two questions are, for the most part, 'Business people' and 'to make money', respectively.

You can't brush off the Sicko move as

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Some points, but most of it a spectacular MOVIE and complete lack of journalistic integrity. Michael Moore has no respect from me. Quoting him gets you no brownie points or style credit.

This discussion is not about you it is about the US healthcare sytem and this movie points out some valid serious allegations. they were not acting, these 'ARE' worst case scenarios but this is happening.

your mate Ronald M. Davis, MD, can't seem to grasp the thought of 'Socialised healthcare' either. More likely though he is just wrapped up in a sweet little number right now.

This new proposal he talks of seems more like a credit system for those that can't afford it at the time... imagine the interest they could claim!!

You should only need private health insurance as a luxury IMHO.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mnealtx 0]

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IMHO

Exactly - in your OPINION. What the government provides, they can also ration - look at the UK and Canada for recent examples. If I need an MRI, I want it *NOW*, not 6 months from now when the gov't approves it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rhys 0]

The part you don't seem to grasp is that in these countries, if you want to have private healthcare you can also. Then you will be treated immediately.
In the Freedom nation of the USA you must have insurance or......?

A waiting list is better then a kick in the bumb.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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Exactly - in your OPINION. What the government provides, they can also ration - look at the UK and Canada for recent examples. If I need an MRI, I want it *NOW*, not 6 months from now when the gov't approves it.

So in canada you don't get a bill for this healthcare, in the UK you don't get a bill for healthcare, you may wait but if you are in critcal condition you will be operated on. No Bill!!

If you want private health insurance due to lack of faith in the govornment in these countries... then you have the freedom to do so at a less expensive price and you will recieve treatment immediately.

is that so hard to grasp?

It is not a perfect system but it is better than having people dying because they cannot afford/ are too fat/ too thin/too old/to get insurance, or because they simply got ripped off.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mnealtx 0]

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So in canada you don't get a bill for this healthcare, in the UK you don't get a bill for healthcare, you may wait but if you are in critcal condition you will be operated on. No Bill!!

Mrs. Jenkins, the cancer/coronary blockage/aneurism was just too far along for us to operate on by the time your husband was able to get the MRI so we could see what was going on - but don't worry, you're not going have to pay for that MRI, isn't that good news?

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If you want private health insurance due to lack of faith in the govornment in these countries... then you have the freedom to do so at a less expensive price and you will recieve treatment immediately.

We have that now, thanks - emergency rooms CANNOT refuse critical care.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[pirana 0]

In the Land of Freedom people are free to engage or not engage in risky behavior, free to lead healthy or unhealthy lifestyles, and free to obtain or not obtain health insurance.

Unfortunately, people are also free to whine pathetically about the consequences of their choices.

The solution is to protect people's right to choose, provide reasonably priced access for those that choose to be covered, and ensure the care that is delivered is effective and meets certain quality criteria.

This is only a difficult situation to resolve due to momentum and previously granted special privileges. There are perfectly equitable mechanisms that could be put into place. The biggest obstacles are the exceptions that have been put in place by all the parties that claim to need special treatment.

Throw out the old playbook & even the playing field and the rest is easy.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[lawrocket 3]

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It is not a perfect system but it is better than having people dying because they cannot afford/ are too fat/ too thin/too old/to get insurance, or because they simply got ripped off.

This is normative. People dying because they can't afford insurance. Or people dying because they can't get treatment,

Of course, the "can't afford insurance" folks exist. More often, however, they don't want to pay for insurance (why woulf they when there are beer to drink and Playstation games?)

And finally, how "fair" is this statement: "Somebody else should pay for it. Now I'm dying because I'm uninsured. (Drag on cigarette). IT's not right that I can't get insurance."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mnealtx 0]

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And finally, how "fair" is this statement: "Somebody else should pay for it. Now I'm dying because I'm uninsured. (Drag on cigarette). IT's not right that I can't get insurance."

It's the Dem's mantra... of course, they carefully DON'T mention how much extra you're going to get soaked to pay for it all...

If you thought medical care was bad when you were having to 'pay' for it...wait until it's "free".

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,030]

>Mrs. Jenkins, the cancer/coronary blockage/aneurism was just too far
>along for us to operate on by the time your husband was able to get
>the MRI so we could see what was going on - but don't worry, you're not
>going have to pay for that MRI, isn't that good news?

Mrs. Jenkins, the blockage is completely operable, but you can't afford the operation. On the plus side, he might live another 3 years before dying a pretty painful death. Isn't that good news?

There are no perfect solutions.

[Lindsey 0]

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>Mrs. Jenkins, the cancer/coronary blockage/aneurism was just too far
>along for us to operate on by the time your husband was able to get
>the MRI so we could see what was going on - but don't worry, you're not
>going have to pay for that MRI, isn't that good news?

Mrs. Jenkins, the blockage is completely operable, but you can't afford the operation. On the plus side, he might live another 3 years before dying a pretty painful death. Isn't that good news?

There are no perfect solutions.

For Mrs. Jenkins, an option might be a teaching hospital, where lots of people without a way to pay are operated on every day. Heck, I had ankle surgery at a teaching hospital when I was in graduate school without insurance. Paid that $10,000 off over a few years.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[lawrocket 3]

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There are no perfect solutions.

Exactly.

"I don't like my pickup truck. I'm nly getting 18 miles per gallon. I need a vehicle with at least 32 miles per gallon of gasoline."

"Wow! I've got myself a car that gets 35 miles per gallon. But this high mileage car doesn't hold my lawn service equipment and can't tow a trailer, nor can it handle much more of these dirt roads."

"What I need is a high-mileage, high speed, high carrying capacity off-road vehicle that is reliable. But I need it for under $20,000.00."

Hey, bud - there is no such vehicle.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

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"What I need is a ........."

See, there's your problem. Who are you to decide what you need? That's what the political leadership is for. Once one of the parties is completely in control, you'll see. It'll all be better.

It's good we straightened that out now before you go off and try to decide other things for yourself. Particularly where your personal gas usage is concerned.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

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>Mrs. Jenkins, the cancer/coronary blockage/aneurism was just too far
>along for us to operate on by the time your husband was able to get
>the MRI so we could see what was going on - but don't worry, you're not
>going have to pay for that MRI, isn't that good news?

Mrs. Jenkins, the blockage is completely operable, but you can't afford the operation. On the plus side, he might live another 3 years before dying a pretty painful death. Isn't that good news?

There are no perfect solutions.

And, point 2 is:

The issue is how the health care is going to be rationed. In the US it is rationed by price. In socialist systems it is rationed by availability (which is the same as rationing it by price on the supply-side).

All systems ration in one way or another.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,030]

>In the US it is rationed by price. In socialist systems it is rationed
>by availability.

Well, not really. No hospital will turn you away because of inability to pay - so we have both systems. I'd propose to just formalize that into a two-tier healthcare system.

Have no money? Then you get basic care, and wait hours for it.

Want to get an MRI RIGHT NOW? Then just give us your credit card.

[DanG 1]

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"I don't like my pickup truck. I'm nly getting 18 miles per gallon. I need a vehicle with at least 32 miles per gallon of gasoline."

"Wow! I've got myself a car that gets 35 miles per gallon. But this high mileage car doesn't hold my lawn service equipment and can't tow a trailer, nor can it handle much more of these dirt roads."

"What I need is a high-mileage, high speed, high carrying capacity off-road vehicle that is reliable. But I need it for under $20,000.00."

Hey, bud - there is no such vehicle.

Toyota Hilux Diesel.

They are awesome, but not for sale in the US. Why? Americans don't like stinky diesels and they aren't big enough to compensate for a small penis.

- Dan G

[kbordson 8]

Another point is PATIENT AUTONOMY.

Right now, I am waiting on labor and delivery and allowing a patient to do something that I, in my professional opinion, don't agree with. I have counselled her on her options. Told her what I think is most medically safe for her and her baby. She is CHOOSING to act opposite of my wishes.

Legal implications? HUGE! Either way. I do the procedure and something happens - "I didn't want it." I allow her to act against medical judgment - "I didn't know."

So... here is a perfect example of the ATTITUDE that is the problem. She is on medicaid (FREE healthcare to her) making demands that compormise the physicians future.

[kallend 2,063]

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Another point is PATIENT AUTONOMY.

Right now, I am waiting on labor and delivery and allowing a patient to do something that I, in my professional opinion, don't agree with. I have counselled her on her options. Told her what I think is most medically safe for her and her baby. She is CHOOSING to act opposite of my wishes.

Legal implications? HUGE! Either way. I do the procedure and something happens - "I didn't want it." I allow her to act against medical judgment - "I didn't know."

So... here is a perfect example of the ATTITUDE that is the problem. She is on medicaid (FREE healthcare to her) making demands that compormise the physicians future.

Ummm - this sounds like perfect example of the "physician as God" attitude.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kbordson 8]

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Eligibility for Publicly Funded Health and Disability Services
Visitors to New Zealand

Visitors to New Zealand are not eligible for publicly funded health and disability services unless they are from Australia or the United Kingdom.

If you can't afford travel insurance you can't afford to travel.

This is per YOUR GOVERNMENTS website.
source

[kbordson 8]

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Ummm - this sounds like perfect example of the "physician as God" attitude.

Yeah... cuz I have a "God complex"

She comes to the hospital for care. Recieves recommendations. Refuses to follow those recommendations. But yet still has the ability to sue regardless of the outcome. And I have the attitude?!

Try again.

[azdiver 0]

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The part you don't seem to grasp is that in these countries, if you want to have private healthcare you can also. Then you will be treated immediately.
In the Freedom nation of the USA you must have insurance or.....

pay the bill afterward if you dont qualify for assistance and that is based off a percentage of your income versus the totals of the bills

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[skymedic 0]

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Next time call for an ambulance. There is no wait then - you go right on in.

I take people straight to the waiting room more times than i take them to an actual room. If you call an ambulance for bullshit we will still put you where the bullshit goes.

Chairs

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[rhys 0]

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Toyota Hilux Diesel.

Damd straight, the best workhorse in the world! hands down.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix