GQ_jumper 4 #27 February 19, 2008 My only problem with this is the need of the Administration to BLAST it across the world.... Spec ops are best kept secret rather than broacasting and chest thumping when there is a success. Black Ops should STAY in the BLACK Quote Very well said, but on the other hand there are times when you need to make a statement, if AQ leaders just start evaporating and no one is taking credit it doesn't send the message that they aren't safe from us and the only way for them to survive is to surrender. There is so much tribal infighting over there that not taking responsibility for these hits will only make it worse. Sometimes chest thumping is in orderHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #28 February 19, 2008 Quote>So why should we tolerate Pakistan doing the same thing? Because they have nuclear weapons. Think we would have invaded Iraq if they had the ability to launch nuclear weapons at Israel? So? If they fire them at the US they would splash down in the Atlantic. Our missiles would make it the whole way to Islamabad. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Butters 0 #29 February 19, 2008 QuoteWhat's more important, maintaining strong relations with a country that's playing both sides of the fence and therefore hurting us in the long run or acting to stop those that our "ally" is harboring Everyone is always screaming about how we need to stop all the wars so US soldiers son't have to die anymore, well guess what, Us soldiers are being killed by people residing in Pakistan who travel into Afghanistan to conduct attacks. It seems that if we want a way out Pakistan is the way to go. If Pakistan will not give authorization and our reasons justify engaging in military operations than we should declare a military conflict (or war) with Pakistan. To do otherwise treats the people of Pakistan like children."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,069 #30 February 19, 2008 >Our missiles would make it the whole way to Islamabad. Correct. That would be an excellent reason to not use them - unless they had no other choice and were about to be overrun anyway. If they're going to die, why not take 20,000 US troops with them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #31 February 19, 2008 If Pakistan will not give authorization and our reasons justify engaging in military operations than we should declare a military conflict (or war) with Pakistan. To do otherwise treats the people of Pakistan like children. Quote Doing so would open the door to engagements directly between us and Pakistan, we aren't trying to crush their military, just dig up a few weeds and if Pakistan doesn't want to play we need to do take the initiative and deal with the problem ourselves.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Butters 0 #32 February 19, 2008 QuoteIf Pakistan will not give authorization and our reasons justify engaging in military operations than we should declare a military conflict (or war) with Pakistan. To do otherwise treats the people of Pakistan like children. QuoteDoing so would open the door to engagements directly between us and Pakistan, we aren't trying to crush their military, just dig up a few weeds and if Pakistan doesn't want to play we need to do take the initiative and deal with the problem ourselves. Engaging in unauthorized military operations opens the door to engagements directly between us and Pakistan ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jm951 0 #33 February 19, 2008 One item that seems to have escaped this board's notice is that the strike took place in Wiziristan. While technically a province of Pakistan, by every report this is a lawless and ungovernable region by the legitimate Pakistani government. On paper it's part of Pakistan, in reality, it's a bandit's hideout where the Pakistani forces don't go or have control. So is it really "part" of Pakistan? If the Pakistani government can't enforce it's own laws there, nor exert any meaningful control, then any action we take there to strike AQ is justified. Don't hand me any crap about "if Mexico" or "if Canada" with regards to the US. The point is that in all of the aforementioned countries, there exists no parallel to the region of Pakistan where this strike occurred. Face it, there are parts of this planet where governments mean nothing and those with the guns make all the rules. In those places, I have absolutely no problem with a Hellfire candygram. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #34 February 19, 2008 Quote>Our missiles would make it the whole way to Islamabad. Correct. That would be an excellent reason to not use them - unless they had no other choice and were about to be overrun anyway. If they're going to die, why not take 20,000 US troops with them? We're not going in to fight the Pakistani military. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 34 #35 February 19, 2008 Exactly what my sentiments are."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #36 February 19, 2008 QuoteOne item that seems to have escaped this board's notice is that the strike took place in Wiziristan. While technically a province of Pakistan, by every report this is a lawless and ungovernable region by the legitimate Pakistani government. On paper it's part of Pakistan, in reality, it's a bandit's hideout where the Pakistani forces don't go or have control. So is it really "part" of Pakistan? If the Pakistani government can't enforce it's own laws there, nor exert any meaningful control, then any action we take there to strike AQ is justified. . Rather like most of the USA west of the Mississippi until the 1910s.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vortexring 0 #37 February 19, 2008 QuoteAre we entirely insane as a nation? Do we REALLY want the entire world to hate us???? BAM! I'm thinking this will change with the new regime in place soon.... I'll happily be critical of numerous US op's - not simply through them generally fucking it up for themselves, or misplaced patriotism; but because they are rarely able to direct the main issues in their conflict. I'm sure you can therefore think of historical examples and even examples for today. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #38 February 20, 2008 Quote>Not in most cases, but this is Al Qaida we're dealing with. So if Mexico thought Al Qaeda was active in New Mexico - you'd support them running an unauthorized military operation in Los Alamos? A better comparison (hypothetical): Premise - Suppose the Minuteman Project was more than just a border monitor. Suppose their charter was to sneak across the open border into Mexico, harass Mexican police, army, civilians and sneak back to the US. Action - Mexico requests, and receives only tepid support, from the US government. Mexican intelligence finds actionable intelligence to get at one of the leaders of the Minuteman Project in Arizona. They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. Reaction - Americans find out about it and there is outrage, the government spouts a lot of rhetoric, everyone moans "how could this happen". Result - Does the US continue to support the Mexican government in their quest to eliminate the threat to their citizens? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't really matter because the border is porous, unsecure, and Mexico is looking out for "number 1", and they can repeat the aforementioned operation at will, with or without support. What ends up happening is a lot of people get pissed off and most of them don't really know why. Pakistan's government may be churning through a bunch of sh*t, but their military is on solid footing, President Musharraf saw to that. Even if he does not remain as President, the parties that have just been elected to power are not necessarily anti-US.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,069 #39 February 20, 2008 >They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. OK, let's go with your example. Would you support Mexico's action? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #40 February 20, 2008 Quote>They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. OK, let's go with your example. Would you support Mexico's action? If I were a Mexican, yes.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #41 February 20, 2008 Quote Quote >They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. OK, let's go with your example. Would you support Mexico's action? If I were a Mexican, yes. I started 4 different replies. I did not post any of them. I am glad because yours here was better than any I thought of. Nice"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,069 #42 February 20, 2008 >If I were a Mexican, yes. A fun and evasive answer. Now - would you support such action, given that you in fact are an american citizen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #43 February 20, 2008 Quote>If I were a Mexican, yes. A fun and evasive answer. Hardly evasive. More reflective based on context. QuoteNow - would you support such action, given that you in fact are an american citizen? As an American citizen, I wouldn't feel as good about it. As I noted, a lot of people would be in an uproar. Now, as an American, am I happy that we scored a good hit on a target in the tribal regions of Pakistan? YES. Am I happy that we had to change the model of how we involve notification of our ally, Pakistan? NO. Whose interests am I, as an American, going to place first? The US. Whose interests do you place first?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #44 February 20, 2008 Whose interests do you place first? Quote I've always felt that Mexico's needs should come first History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Channman 2 #45 February 20, 2008 > It will all be different now Musharraf has lost the election. So, does this mean we will finally see peace in our time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 34 #46 February 20, 2008 Quote > It will all be different now Musharraf has lost the election. So, does this mean we will finally see peace in our time? I dunno... depends on which party takes control. I think we might have a chance with Bhutto's successors, but the hard-line Islamics probably will have something to say or do in the mess. They most likely will do something. The rest of us won't like it."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites auburnguy 0 #47 February 20, 2008 One senior Al-Qaeda official killed, enough said. Personally I support covert teams making incursions into Pakistan to snatch terrorists, the Pakistanis aren't doing anything, we must act."If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Zipp0 1 #28 February 19, 2008 Quote>So why should we tolerate Pakistan doing the same thing? Because they have nuclear weapons. Think we would have invaded Iraq if they had the ability to launch nuclear weapons at Israel? So? If they fire them at the US they would splash down in the Atlantic. Our missiles would make it the whole way to Islamabad. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #29 February 19, 2008 QuoteWhat's more important, maintaining strong relations with a country that's playing both sides of the fence and therefore hurting us in the long run or acting to stop those that our "ally" is harboring Everyone is always screaming about how we need to stop all the wars so US soldiers son't have to die anymore, well guess what, Us soldiers are being killed by people residing in Pakistan who travel into Afghanistan to conduct attacks. It seems that if we want a way out Pakistan is the way to go. If Pakistan will not give authorization and our reasons justify engaging in military operations than we should declare a military conflict (or war) with Pakistan. To do otherwise treats the people of Pakistan like children."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,069 #30 February 19, 2008 >Our missiles would make it the whole way to Islamabad. Correct. That would be an excellent reason to not use them - unless they had no other choice and were about to be overrun anyway. If they're going to die, why not take 20,000 US troops with them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #31 February 19, 2008 If Pakistan will not give authorization and our reasons justify engaging in military operations than we should declare a military conflict (or war) with Pakistan. To do otherwise treats the people of Pakistan like children. Quote Doing so would open the door to engagements directly between us and Pakistan, we aren't trying to crush their military, just dig up a few weeds and if Pakistan doesn't want to play we need to do take the initiative and deal with the problem ourselves.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Butters 0 #32 February 19, 2008 QuoteIf Pakistan will not give authorization and our reasons justify engaging in military operations than we should declare a military conflict (or war) with Pakistan. To do otherwise treats the people of Pakistan like children. QuoteDoing so would open the door to engagements directly between us and Pakistan, we aren't trying to crush their military, just dig up a few weeds and if Pakistan doesn't want to play we need to do take the initiative and deal with the problem ourselves. Engaging in unauthorized military operations opens the door to engagements directly between us and Pakistan ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jm951 0 #33 February 19, 2008 One item that seems to have escaped this board's notice is that the strike took place in Wiziristan. While technically a province of Pakistan, by every report this is a lawless and ungovernable region by the legitimate Pakistani government. On paper it's part of Pakistan, in reality, it's a bandit's hideout where the Pakistani forces don't go or have control. So is it really "part" of Pakistan? If the Pakistani government can't enforce it's own laws there, nor exert any meaningful control, then any action we take there to strike AQ is justified. Don't hand me any crap about "if Mexico" or "if Canada" with regards to the US. The point is that in all of the aforementioned countries, there exists no parallel to the region of Pakistan where this strike occurred. Face it, there are parts of this planet where governments mean nothing and those with the guns make all the rules. In those places, I have absolutely no problem with a Hellfire candygram. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #34 February 19, 2008 Quote>Our missiles would make it the whole way to Islamabad. Correct. That would be an excellent reason to not use them - unless they had no other choice and were about to be overrun anyway. If they're going to die, why not take 20,000 US troops with them? We're not going in to fight the Pakistani military. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 34 #35 February 19, 2008 Exactly what my sentiments are."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #36 February 19, 2008 QuoteOne item that seems to have escaped this board's notice is that the strike took place in Wiziristan. While technically a province of Pakistan, by every report this is a lawless and ungovernable region by the legitimate Pakistani government. On paper it's part of Pakistan, in reality, it's a bandit's hideout where the Pakistani forces don't go or have control. So is it really "part" of Pakistan? If the Pakistani government can't enforce it's own laws there, nor exert any meaningful control, then any action we take there to strike AQ is justified. . Rather like most of the USA west of the Mississippi until the 1910s.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vortexring 0 #37 February 19, 2008 QuoteAre we entirely insane as a nation? Do we REALLY want the entire world to hate us???? BAM! I'm thinking this will change with the new regime in place soon.... I'll happily be critical of numerous US op's - not simply through them generally fucking it up for themselves, or misplaced patriotism; but because they are rarely able to direct the main issues in their conflict. I'm sure you can therefore think of historical examples and even examples for today. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #38 February 20, 2008 Quote>Not in most cases, but this is Al Qaida we're dealing with. So if Mexico thought Al Qaeda was active in New Mexico - you'd support them running an unauthorized military operation in Los Alamos? A better comparison (hypothetical): Premise - Suppose the Minuteman Project was more than just a border monitor. Suppose their charter was to sneak across the open border into Mexico, harass Mexican police, army, civilians and sneak back to the US. Action - Mexico requests, and receives only tepid support, from the US government. Mexican intelligence finds actionable intelligence to get at one of the leaders of the Minuteman Project in Arizona. They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. Reaction - Americans find out about it and there is outrage, the government spouts a lot of rhetoric, everyone moans "how could this happen". Result - Does the US continue to support the Mexican government in their quest to eliminate the threat to their citizens? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't really matter because the border is porous, unsecure, and Mexico is looking out for "number 1", and they can repeat the aforementioned operation at will, with or without support. What ends up happening is a lot of people get pissed off and most of them don't really know why. Pakistan's government may be churning through a bunch of sh*t, but their military is on solid footing, President Musharraf saw to that. Even if he does not remain as President, the parties that have just been elected to power are not necessarily anti-US.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,069 #39 February 20, 2008 >They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. OK, let's go with your example. Would you support Mexico's action? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #40 February 20, 2008 Quote>They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. OK, let's go with your example. Would you support Mexico's action? If I were a Mexican, yes.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #41 February 20, 2008 Quote Quote >They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. OK, let's go with your example. Would you support Mexico's action? If I were a Mexican, yes. I started 4 different replies. I did not post any of them. I am glad because yours here was better than any I thought of. Nice"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,069 #42 February 20, 2008 >If I were a Mexican, yes. A fun and evasive answer. Now - would you support such action, given that you in fact are an american citizen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #43 February 20, 2008 Quote>If I were a Mexican, yes. A fun and evasive answer. Hardly evasive. More reflective based on context. QuoteNow - would you support such action, given that you in fact are an american citizen? As an American citizen, I wouldn't feel as good about it. As I noted, a lot of people would be in an uproar. Now, as an American, am I happy that we scored a good hit on a target in the tribal regions of Pakistan? YES. Am I happy that we had to change the model of how we involve notification of our ally, Pakistan? NO. Whose interests am I, as an American, going to place first? The US. Whose interests do you place first?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #44 February 20, 2008 Whose interests do you place first? Quote I've always felt that Mexico's needs should come first History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Channman 2 #45 February 20, 2008 > It will all be different now Musharraf has lost the election. So, does this mean we will finally see peace in our time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 34 #46 February 20, 2008 Quote > It will all be different now Musharraf has lost the election. So, does this mean we will finally see peace in our time? I dunno... depends on which party takes control. I think we might have a chance with Bhutto's successors, but the hard-line Islamics probably will have something to say or do in the mess. They most likely will do something. The rest of us won't like it."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites auburnguy 0 #47 February 20, 2008 One senior Al-Qaeda official killed, enough said. Personally I support covert teams making incursions into Pakistan to snatch terrorists, the Pakistanis aren't doing anything, we must act."If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Butters 0 #32 February 19, 2008 QuoteIf Pakistan will not give authorization and our reasons justify engaging in military operations than we should declare a military conflict (or war) with Pakistan. To do otherwise treats the people of Pakistan like children. QuoteDoing so would open the door to engagements directly between us and Pakistan, we aren't trying to crush their military, just dig up a few weeds and if Pakistan doesn't want to play we need to do take the initiative and deal with the problem ourselves. Engaging in unauthorized military operations opens the door to engagements directly between us and Pakistan ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm951 0 #33 February 19, 2008 One item that seems to have escaped this board's notice is that the strike took place in Wiziristan. While technically a province of Pakistan, by every report this is a lawless and ungovernable region by the legitimate Pakistani government. On paper it's part of Pakistan, in reality, it's a bandit's hideout where the Pakistani forces don't go or have control. So is it really "part" of Pakistan? If the Pakistani government can't enforce it's own laws there, nor exert any meaningful control, then any action we take there to strike AQ is justified. Don't hand me any crap about "if Mexico" or "if Canada" with regards to the US. The point is that in all of the aforementioned countries, there exists no parallel to the region of Pakistan where this strike occurred. Face it, there are parts of this planet where governments mean nothing and those with the guns make all the rules. In those places, I have absolutely no problem with a Hellfire candygram. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #34 February 19, 2008 Quote>Our missiles would make it the whole way to Islamabad. Correct. That would be an excellent reason to not use them - unless they had no other choice and were about to be overrun anyway. If they're going to die, why not take 20,000 US troops with them? We're not going in to fight the Pakistani military. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #35 February 19, 2008 Exactly what my sentiments are."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #36 February 19, 2008 QuoteOne item that seems to have escaped this board's notice is that the strike took place in Wiziristan. While technically a province of Pakistan, by every report this is a lawless and ungovernable region by the legitimate Pakistani government. On paper it's part of Pakistan, in reality, it's a bandit's hideout where the Pakistani forces don't go or have control. So is it really "part" of Pakistan? If the Pakistani government can't enforce it's own laws there, nor exert any meaningful control, then any action we take there to strike AQ is justified. . Rather like most of the USA west of the Mississippi until the 1910s.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #37 February 19, 2008 QuoteAre we entirely insane as a nation? Do we REALLY want the entire world to hate us???? BAM! I'm thinking this will change with the new regime in place soon.... I'll happily be critical of numerous US op's - not simply through them generally fucking it up for themselves, or misplaced patriotism; but because they are rarely able to direct the main issues in their conflict. I'm sure you can therefore think of historical examples and even examples for today. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #38 February 20, 2008 Quote>Not in most cases, but this is Al Qaida we're dealing with. So if Mexico thought Al Qaeda was active in New Mexico - you'd support them running an unauthorized military operation in Los Alamos? A better comparison (hypothetical): Premise - Suppose the Minuteman Project was more than just a border monitor. Suppose their charter was to sneak across the open border into Mexico, harass Mexican police, army, civilians and sneak back to the US. Action - Mexico requests, and receives only tepid support, from the US government. Mexican intelligence finds actionable intelligence to get at one of the leaders of the Minuteman Project in Arizona. They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. Reaction - Americans find out about it and there is outrage, the government spouts a lot of rhetoric, everyone moans "how could this happen". Result - Does the US continue to support the Mexican government in their quest to eliminate the threat to their citizens? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't really matter because the border is porous, unsecure, and Mexico is looking out for "number 1", and they can repeat the aforementioned operation at will, with or without support. What ends up happening is a lot of people get pissed off and most of them don't really know why. Pakistan's government may be churning through a bunch of sh*t, but their military is on solid footing, President Musharraf saw to that. Even if he does not remain as President, the parties that have just been elected to power are not necessarily anti-US.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,069 #39 February 20, 2008 >They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. OK, let's go with your example. Would you support Mexico's action? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #40 February 20, 2008 Quote>They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. OK, let's go with your example. Would you support Mexico's action? If I were a Mexican, yes.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #41 February 20, 2008 Quote Quote >They send a 4 man team across the border, and their threat is eliminated. OK, let's go with your example. Would you support Mexico's action? If I were a Mexican, yes. I started 4 different replies. I did not post any of them. I am glad because yours here was better than any I thought of. Nice"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,069 #42 February 20, 2008 >If I were a Mexican, yes. A fun and evasive answer. Now - would you support such action, given that you in fact are an american citizen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #43 February 20, 2008 Quote>If I were a Mexican, yes. A fun and evasive answer. Hardly evasive. More reflective based on context. QuoteNow - would you support such action, given that you in fact are an american citizen? As an American citizen, I wouldn't feel as good about it. As I noted, a lot of people would be in an uproar. Now, as an American, am I happy that we scored a good hit on a target in the tribal regions of Pakistan? YES. Am I happy that we had to change the model of how we involve notification of our ally, Pakistan? NO. Whose interests am I, as an American, going to place first? The US. Whose interests do you place first?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #44 February 20, 2008 Whose interests do you place first? Quote I've always felt that Mexico's needs should come first History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #45 February 20, 2008 > It will all be different now Musharraf has lost the election. So, does this mean we will finally see peace in our time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #46 February 20, 2008 Quote > It will all be different now Musharraf has lost the election. So, does this mean we will finally see peace in our time? I dunno... depends on which party takes control. I think we might have a chance with Bhutto's successors, but the hard-line Islamics probably will have something to say or do in the mess. They most likely will do something. The rest of us won't like it."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
auburnguy 0 #47 February 20, 2008 One senior Al-Qaeda official killed, enough said. Personally I support covert teams making incursions into Pakistan to snatch terrorists, the Pakistanis aren't doing anything, we must act."If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
