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Nightingale

Montana prepares to secede from the Union...

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>What happened in the 1860s has very limited relevance to now.

True. Our federal government is far stronger than it was in 1860, and we have since established the precedent that no state will be allowed to secede from the US.



Surely their 2nd Amendment rights will protect the secessionist Montanans from a rogue Federal Government sending in the gunships and tanks.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>What happened in the 1860s has very limited relevance to now.

True. Our federal government is far stronger than it was in 1860, and we have since established the precedent that no state will be allowed to secede from the US.



Surely their 2nd Amendment rights will protect the secessionist Montanans from a rogue Federal Government sending in the gunships and tanks.



Seemed to work pretty well for the Viet Cong, didn't it?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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>What happened in the 1860s has very limited relevance to now.

True. Our federal government is far stronger than it was in 1860, and we have since established the precedent that no state will be allowed to secede from the US.



Surely their 2nd Amendment rights will protect the secessionist Montanans from a rogue Federal Government sending in the gunships and tanks.



Seemed to work pretty well for the Viet Cong, didn't it?



When did the Viet Cong secede from the union? You ARE confused.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>What happened in the 1860s has very limited relevance to now.

True. Our federal government is far stronger than it was in 1860, and we have since established the precedent that no state will be allowed to secede from the US.



Surely their 2nd Amendment rights will protect the secessionist Montanans from a rogue Federal Government sending in the gunships and tanks.



Seemed to work pretty well for the Viet Cong, didn't it?



When did the Viet Cong secede from the union? You ARE confused.



Your coy games don't impress, Doc... you tried to make your usual point of personal arms not being effective against gunships and tanks, and I rebutted it.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Your coy games don't impress, Doc... you tried to make your usual point of personal arms not being effective against gunships and tanks, and I rebutted it.



Yes you did, Kallend is being intentionally obtuse. However I don't think you really believe hand weapons in the hands of the VC really one that war. The US military declined to take the actions necessary to annihilate the NVA, which would have ended the VC threat.
Personally arresting and disarming every man woman and child in Montana could be done in a few months, there really aren't that many of them. The problem is they would have sympathizers in northern Idaho; then you'd be in trouble.;)

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Surely their 2nd Amendment rights will protect the secessionist Montanans from a rogue Federal Government sending in the gunships and tanks.



It may well do just that, if those rights are being actively exercised. I think and armed populace is a far better defense than a standing military. Considering:

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

and

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I believe the Founding Fathers felt the same way. Heck, I wouldn't have any problem at all with issuing guns to those who can't afford them, if such measures were combined with eliminating our standing Army. A Navy (downsized), the Marine Corps, the Coast Guard and an Air Force Reserves, combined with an armed population and strong anti-vigilante laws, would be quite sufficient in protecting our nation against the same threats our bloated military protects us from. It would also offer built in protections against rogue Commanders In Chief who might want to waste our national resources attacking foreign sovereigns that pose no threat to our national security.
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

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Heck, I wouldn't have any problem at all with issuing guns to those who can't afford them, if such measures were combined with eliminating our standing Army. A Navy (downsized), the Marine Corps, the Coast Guard and an Air Force Reserves, combined with an armed population and strong anti-vigilante laws, would be quite sufficient in protecting our nation against the same threats our bloated military protects us from. It would also offer built in protections against rogue Commanders In Chief who might want to waste our national resources attacking foreign sovereigns that pose no threat to our national security.



Would you expand on how you would propose implementing this recommendation? Thanks.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

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Heck, I wouldn't have any problem at all with issuing guns to those who can't afford them, if such measures were combined with eliminating our standing Army. A Navy (downsized), the Marine Corps, the Coast Guard and an Air Force Reserves, combined with an armed population and strong anti-vigilante laws, would be quite sufficient in protecting our nation against the same threats our bloated military protects us from. It would also offer built in protections against rogue Commanders In Chief who might want to waste our national resources attacking foreign sovereigns that pose no threat to our national security.



Would you expand on how you would propose implementing this recommendation? Thanks.

VR/Marg



I haven't come up with a specific plan of implementation. I'm confident that it could be implemented, but I don't have a specific path in mind to get us from point A to point B.
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

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Sorry, Bill, there is nothing nutty about expecting the government to abide by its compacts, and fighting them when they don't.



The US Government has a history of signing contracts (treaties) then deciding not to honor the terms of the contract.
The Feds have proven, especially during the current administration, that the Constitution, laws, and contracts are merely guidelines. All can be ignored when expedient.
And the sheeple don't seem to care.

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Interestingly enough, the main reason Jefferson Davis was nevr brought to trial for treason was that the government feared he could make a persuasive argument in court that secession was constitutional. So rather than press the matter, they let him go and he fled to England.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

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>Seemed to work pretty well for the Viet Cong, didn't it?

Right. And organized terrorism is going to go over really well in the US nowadays. Think Waco on a statewide scale.



VERY large difference between ATF/FBI agents firing on their countrymen and US Soldiers firing on their countrymen. I honestly believe that *most* soldiers would refuse the order.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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>I honestly believe that *most* soldiers would refuse the order.

Ten years ago, perhaps. But today, the separatists would be labeled terrorists, their ties to Islamic extremism would be postulated, and right wingers everywhere would ask "do you want another 9/11 pulled off by these Al Qaeda-backed killers RIGHT HERE IN OUR BACKYARD?"

And our troops would fire on them, believing that they were protecting the US from its domestic enemies as they have pledged to do.

US troops have, in the past, fired on unarmed, protesting students. I have zero doubt they would fire on terrorists who were shooting at them.

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I honestly believe that *most* soldiers would refuse the order.



That's not how it would go down though, is it?

The Army would not be sent to Montana with orders to attack without provocation, they'd go in to keep the peace/ ensure the security of the State or whatever. Then, if the good people of Montana decided fired upon them are you telling me most soldiers would not act in self defence?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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FYI, Key West seceded from the Union in 1982. Yes, everyone's tongue was planted firmly in their cheeks. :)
http://www.conchrepublic.com/history.htm

Not sure how to make it clicky. I know this is a serious topic, and I'm not trying to hijack the thread. Just thought you folks might find this amusing.

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>Our willingness to have our brothers killing our brothers was destroyed by the Civil War.

Kent State was _after_ the Civil War. And those were just rocks they were defending themselves against.



Even for SC, this is a sad thread, with triple hypotheticals and crappy comparisons left and right.

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FYI, Key West seceded from the Union in 1982. Yes, everyone's tongue was planted firmly in their cheeks. :)
http://www.conchrepublic.com/history.htm

Not sure how to make it clicky. I know this is a serious topic, and I'm not trying to hijack the thread. Just thought you folks might find this amusing.



Dammit!>:( You beat me to it.[:/]
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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On the other hand, maybe it's time we let Puerto Rico join the club. I think we can all agree we all like Puerto Rico more than Montana.



I'll trade you Montana for Puerto Rico and a state to be named later, plus a few billion $ so we can stay under the salary cap
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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Since the beautiful state of Montana does not appear wanted by some of you, I will trade you a 6th and a 9th round draft pick for the state of Montana (heck you can keep the eastern plains, we just want Montana's mountains). Albertans need more vacation property and we've pretty much already bought up most of eastern BC. :ph34r:



Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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