Fines for Illegal Hiring to Rise

[kallend 2,027]

From the Washington Post:

Fines for Illegal Hiring to Rise


The federal government will raise by 25 percent the fines it levies against employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, the first boost in nearly a decade, officials said.

The new maximum fine for multiple violations will increase to $16,000 per illegal hire, from $11,000 currently. The Justice Department also plans to add this year 50 new lawyers and 100 deputy U.S. marshals dedicated to border enforcement, Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey said.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

I wonder why they settled at 25%. I also wonder if this will be become a real deterrent. ...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I suspect it will be a useful stick to use against small businesses who support the wrong guy for (fill in appropriate elected office here).

[BIGUN 1,325]

Key phrase: who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[tkhayes 348]

I would like to know if any has actually paid a fine yet - I see typical govt crap - make a bunch of rules that has no budget to enforce, so the enforcement becomes uneven and spotty, screwing some people while others walk away with nothing.

Not much point is passign rules that cannot possibly be carried out - same as training a dog - don't call the dog to come if you can't 'make him come to you'

something about 'teaching a pig to sing' I think......

[masterrig 1]

It's my understanding that there is a minnimum and maximum fine that can be levied. The 25% increase brings it to the maximum. I heard on the news the other day that something like $30 mil. in fines have been handed out so far to employers due to raids on businesses throughout the country.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

I'm sure, businesses know who they are hiring. When the 'new hire' needs an interpreter and smells of sagebrush?


Chuck

[akarunway 1]

Quote

From the Washington Post:

Fines for Illegal Hiring to Rise


The federal government will raise by 25 percent the fines it levies against employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, the first boost in nearly a decade, officials said.

The new maximum fine for multiple violations will increase to $16,000 per illegal hire, from $11,000 currently. The Justice Department also plans to add this year 50 new lawyers and 100 deputy U.S. marshals dedicated to border enforcement, Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey said.

Would't jail time be more of a deterrent? Lock em up w/ all the potheads

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

It's my understanding that there is a minnimum and maximum fine that can be levied. The 25% increase brings it to the maximum. I heard on the news the other day that something like $30 mil. in fines have been handed out so far to employers due to raids on businesses throughout the country.


Chuck

What? since 1987?

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

It's my understanding that there is a minnimum and maximum fine that can be levied. The 25% increase brings it to the maximum. I heard on the news the other day that something like $30 mil. in fines have been handed out so far to employers due to raids on businesses throughout the country.


Chuck

What? since 1987?

About the last 6-months.


Chuck

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Oh, well that's a start.

[Frenchy68 0]

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I wonder why they settled at 25%. I also wonder if this will be become a real deterrent. ...

It will be if enforced and given the means to enforce it. If not enforced, they might as well raise it by 2000%.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[masterrig 1]

They gotta start somewhere and this seems like a good 'place'.


Chuck

[Channman 2]

Quote

From the Washington Post:

Fines for Illegal Hiring to Rise


The federal government will raise by 25 percent the fines it levies against employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, the first boost in nearly a decade, officials said.

Does this apply to myself if I hire someone to build a few cabinets? I mean I'm only trying to save a few bucks.

The new maximum fine for multiple violations will increase to $16,000 per illegal hire, from $11,000 currently. The Justice Department also plans to add this year 50 new lawyers and 100 deputy U.S. marshals dedicated to border enforcement, Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey said.

[Lindsey 0]

So when I hire people to cut the grass, work on the flower beds, and keep the pool, I'll just shy away from Mexicans. Black folks and drug addicts will work for less anyway around here....of course they won't stay out of my fridge, either for drugs or beer, but at least we speak the same language.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[SBS 0]

Of course they know who they are hiring, but other laws that prohibit discrimination protect them from prosecution. They bring in a fake SSN, and if they are wrongfully accused of being illegal, the employer can be prosecuted. As such, they just take down the SSN and put them on the payroll.

It's funny that there would even be talk of "raiding" a company for illegals...they know exactly where to find them, and have for years. It's all for show...if they wanted them out they would be out.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[PLFXpert 0]

You'd be surprised how many don't even provide a fake social security card.

The federal ID # confuses some employers, though, as it looks exactly like a SSN. Bottom-line, however, is employers are supposed to see the actual card before hiring--if they actually did they would know the ID # is not a SSN. Either way in this scenario, the employer should be fined if caught.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[masterrig 1]

You're right! Everybody knows 'the game'. The public squeals about something long enough and loud enough, the govt. puts on their show. Like the war on drugs. The Border Patrol knows who hires illegals and who doesn't. Until they are told to make raids, their hands are tied.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

What's funny about the Federal ID cards is... this country doesn't issue them!


Chuck

[piper17 1]

Actually, the federal government does issue IDs...passports are one example.

Never having to get one I don't know what they look like but how about "green cards"?

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Actually, the federal government does issue IDs...passports are one example.

Never having to get one I don't know what they look like but how about "green cards"?

I'm aware that the U.S. government issues passports and that they are falsified. What I am referring to is, on Glenn Beck, the other night, they showed a national ID card that was a phoney. It was a laminated card with bold letters across the top of the card that stated: 'United States Of America Identification Card' followed by a number and a false signature. It was printed in red, white and blue. The ID number was in black. The U.S.A. does not issue such a card.


Chuck

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Actually, the federal government does issue IDs...passports are one example.

Never having to get one I don't know what they look like but how about "green cards"?

I've had photo ID cards issued by both the US DoE and the US Department of the Navy.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SBS 0]

Many do see the card, and the card is a fake. Employers KNOW that the card is a fake. They hide behind the discrimination laws to fight prosecution, but it's not like they have to fight that fight anyway, because the laws are so minimally enforced.

Let's say that potential employers in the agricultural industry do call out the fakes. What would you propose be the alternative for the agricultural industry to illegal labor?

I would venture to say that the reason that the laws are not enforced is because no reasonable alternative has been found.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[kelpdiver 2]

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Let's say that potential employers in the agricultural industry do call out the fakes. What would you propose be the alternative for the agricultural industry to illegal labor?

I would venture to say that the reason that the laws are not enforced is because no reasonable alternative has been found.

Reasonable is of course a loose term. But what we have now is a moving shell game where GOP governors talk about tight borders but also watch the migrant farm workers come over, sometimes even propose farm worker visa programs.

Will Americans do this work? Who knows - if the wages are below minimum few will offer. So if we mandate min wage and price produce accordingly, will we come up with a better equilibrium that we have now?

[SBS 0]

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Will Americans do this work? Who knows - if the wages are below minimum few will offer. So if we mandate min wage and price produce accordingly, will we come up with a better equilibrium that we have now?

The thing is that these people are treated as legal citizens in the eyes of the employers, at least in the cases of which I speak. Therefore, they are not paid less than minimum wage. If they were, that would be a)illegal, and b)a silent admission to the government that the company "knew" that they were illegal so they could be exploited.

The problem is that in order to find out if Americans would do the job, which I promise you they would not, it would involve giving up what they already have. It would be "experimental", and put companies out of business, either because the price of produce was too high, or that they just don't have it because they can't find the number of workers necessary to pick their volume.

Just as a speculation, I don't believe that there is any amount of money that one of us could be paid that would cause us to do their jobs, and certainly not nearly as well. The conditions that they work in, while not abusive, can be horrendous on the best of days. I'm sure they could find some that would do it, but for example, 400 acres of strawberries takes about 800 workers 7 days a week in the height of the season.

So in short answer to the question, I believe that raising the wages and enforcing laws about illegal workers in the industry would cause prices to go up because of hard costs, and then again for lack of supply. That is until enough companies just go out of business and it's not there at all.

Does that make sense?

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...