Ca. Laws

[akarunway 1]

This one is messed up.>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/MNJDVF0F1.DTL My kids are grown but if I had to do it over I'd damn sure home school em. The part that pisses me the most.>"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue. ____________________Not education. Fucking indoctrination. Fuck letting them think for themselves.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Gawain 0]

I heard about this too. The radio report said that this decision would be appealed. I hope that the homeschoolers can continue, on average, these kids turn out better educationally.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[funjumper101 15]

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This one is messed up.>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/MNJDVF0F1.DTL My kids are grown but if I had to do it over I'd damn sure home school em. The part that pisses me the most.>"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue. ____________________Not education. Fucking indoctrination. Fuck letting them think for themselves.

Parents who homeschool children frequently do so so that they (the parents) can indoctrinate them into the parents world views. Some of those world views are pretty scary. The Jonesboro Baptists are home schooled...

Having worked in a public school system and dealt with some of those parents, I support the ruling 100%.
Ignorant white folks who are "all messed up on the Lord" (great Cheech and Chong line) made up the majority of the parents who "home-schooled" their children. They usually did a really bad job and set back their kids intellectual and social development. Once the home school "attempt" was over and the kids came back to school, much effort was expended in remedial education to get them back up to speed with their peers.

In the story that you link to, it is clear to me that the parents, in this case, seem to be in the category of "ignorant white folks, all messed up on the lord". Using a "religious" school as a coverup for their feeble efforts is par for the course, in my experience. The story is also very clear that the judge applied the law, as clearly written, regarding the requirements for a "home-schooled" educational scenario. It appears that the "educational establishment" broke the law to accomodate parents. Be pissed off at the parents and the educational establishment for not following the law, not the judge for the ruling.

Once again, righteous froth is whipped up by those that are ignorant of the facts of the matter.
If you plan to teach children (any children, even your own) to a professional standard, IE, NCLB standards, school curriculum standards, etc, you should be required to have a professional credential. Why is that a bad thing?

[kallend 2,028]

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I heard about this too. The radio report said that this decision would be appealed. I hope that the homeschoolers can continue, on average, these kids turn out better educationally.

But how about a comparison with kids educated in public schools but who have caring, involved parents? Just comparing "on average" means you are comparing with kids from broken homes, kids with crack head, abusive parents, etc.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[akarunway 1]

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I heard about this too. The radio report said that this decision would be appealed. I hope that the homeschoolers can continue, on average, these kids turn out better educationally.

But how about a comparison with kids educated in public schools but who have caring, involved parents? Just comparing "on average" means you are comparing with kids from broken homes, kids with crack head, abusive parents, etc.

"But how about a comparison with kids educated in public schools but who have caring, involved parents." -----------------------------------------------------------------------How about throwing in kids educated at home who have caring, involved parents into the mix. I've learned more in 5 yrs. since I first bought a computer than I have in the previous 45 yrs. of my life including 12 yrs.of public education/indoctrination. That was then, this is now. Way different world. This is just more govt. control. They want to produce more sheep. And by what's happening in public schools today that is another subject of debate. I damn sure wouldn't put my kid in a public school if I didn't have the cash for a private one. Edit to add: Ca. is in a budget crisis. So. They are going to cut funding to public schools. Let's see. Less money/teachers and more students. You REALLY want to send your kids there? We won't even get into the gangbangers etc. aspect.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Gawain 0]

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I heard about this too. The radio report said that this decision would be appealed. I hope that the homeschoolers can continue, on average, these kids turn out better educationally.

But how about a comparison with kids educated in public schools but who have caring, involved parents? Just comparing "on average" means you are comparing with kids from broken homes, kids with crack head, abusive parents, etc.

You made my point, home schooled kids have involved loving parents.

You cannot selectively exclude the children of crackheads in school performance when comparing whole bodies of students.

Actually, I'd be curious if there was a direct measure you could take without adverse consequence: How many of the students on your roster were home schooled, and how does their performance compare to the rest of the students you teach?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[lawrocket 3]

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Parents who homeschool children frequently do so so that they (the parents) can indoctrinate them into the parents world views.

Ouch! Beware the dangers of letting parents raise their kids. It takes a village, right?

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The Jonesboro Baptists are home schooled...

I hate that group. But I have no problem with them home schooling.

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Ignorant white folks who are "all messed up on the Lord" (great Cheech and Chong line) made up the majority of the parents who "home-schooled" their children.

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Having worked in a public school system

Do you ever stop and think that attitudes like this are just as dangerous as the "home school" indoctrination? This is another reason why parents pull their kids out of schools. THIS is the type of intolerance among the self-anointed in public schools that I DESPISE. These attitudes are, fortunately, rare. But just one teacher in a public school who shows this type of prejudice and intolerance fucks up the kids for good at that school.

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righteous froth is whipped up by those that are ignorant of the facts of the matter

See this for righteous froth: "Ignorant white folks who are "all messed up on the Lord" (great Cheech and Chong line) made up the majority of the parents who "home-schooled" their children."

Pot, meet Kettle.

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The story is also very clear that the judge applied the law, as clearly written, regarding the requirements for a "home-schooled" educational scenario. It appears that the "educational establishment" broke the law to accomodate parents. Be pissed off at the parents and the educational establishment for not following the law, not the judge for the ruling.

I agree. But I am not pissed at the Justices nor the parents. It's the law that is what I'm upset with.

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you should be required to have a professional credential

I'll put it this way - attorneys would LOVE there to be a requirement that a person who represents himself or herself in court must have a bar license. Doctors would LOVE there to be a requirement that a person who treats any condition they have hold a license to practice medicine.

So, would you suggest that only doctors can administer medicine to a child? Or that only doctors treat a child's cut? What if the parent messes it up and the child gets a massive infection?

From the article:

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Union pleased with ruling
The ruling was applauded by a director for the state's largest teachers union.

"We're happy," said Lloyd Porter, who is on the California Teachers Association board of directors. "We always think students should be taught by credentialed teachers, no matter what the setting."

No kidding it is applauded by a union. That's 150k new kids to be put back into school. That means more teachers will be needed. More schools built. Etc.

Just yesterday I wrote this: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3146928#3146928

Things that force kids into public schools make Teachers Unions happy.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,028]

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I heard about this too. The radio report said that this decision would be appealed. I hope that the homeschoolers can continue, on average, these kids turn out better educationally.

But how about a comparison with kids educated in public schools but who have caring, involved parents? Just comparing "on average" means you are comparing with kids from broken homes, kids with crack head, abusive parents, etc.

You made my point, home schooled kids have involved loving parents.

You cannot selectively exclude the children of crackheads in school performance when comparing whole bodies of students.

Actually, I'd be curious if there was a direct measure you could take without adverse consequence: How many of the students on your roster were home schooled, and how does their performance compare to the rest of the students you teach?

I'm not sure that it's legal for me to ask such questions. I am not even allowed to know a student's grade in a course that is prerequisite to mine (supposedly it might influence my grading). And before you start on about liberals - it was signed into law by Richard M. Nixon.

However, the point I am making is that the success of homeschoolers may have a lot less (or nothing whatsoever) to do with the quality of instruction, and a lot (or everything) to do with the involvement of the parents which is CLEARLY greater than for the AVERAGE non homeschooler.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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I heard about this too. The radio report said that this decision would be appealed. I hope that the homeschoolers can continue, on average, these kids turn out better educationally.

But how about a comparison with kids educated in public schools but who have caring, involved parents? Just comparing "on average" means you are comparing with kids from broken homes, kids with crack head, abusive parents, etc.

You made my point, home schooled kids have involved loving parents.

You cannot selectively exclude the children of crackheads in school performance when comparing whole bodies of students.

Actually, I'd be curious if there was a direct measure you could take without adverse consequence: How many of the students on your roster were home schooled, and how does their performance compare to the rest of the students you teach?

I'm not sure that it's legal for me to ask such questions. I am not even allowed to know a student's grade in a course that is prerequisite to mine (supposedly it might influence my grading). And before you start on about liberals - it was signed into law by Richard M. Nixon.

I already figured there was one reason or another why you might not be able to inquire about that. Still, I bet you could work a mathematically blind study if curiosity got the best of you.

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However, the point I am making is that the success of homeschoolers may have a lot less (or nothing whatsoever) to do with the quality of instruction, and a lot (or everything) to do with the involvement of the parents which is CLEARLY greater than for the AVERAGE non homeschooler.

I don't dispute that, but I think it is too narrow of a comparison, and it flies in the face of the teacher's union movement of "You have to be responsible for your children, but only we know what's best for them" type-attitude.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!