DSE 5 #51 March 14, 2008 QuoteFrom the prespective that she gave me though, the language was being stressed. (which I thought was a good thing) Absolutely, it is! It's a good thing. And it's being stressed as much as budgets allow for. But...the local radio station in Pine Ridge for example, no longer broadcasts exclusively in Lakota, it's now about half/half or less...kids just aren't retaining it. It's not on MTV, VH1, etc. But it *is* being taught, it is a priority. But without daily use, and there are fewer and fewer people speaking it, so much becomes lost forever. Even today, translators struggle with parts of Densmore's recordings, and they're barely 100 years old. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #52 March 14, 2008 QuoteEnglish is also a tricky language to learn. Lots of arcane structure and inconsistent 'rules'. . You can thank the "Black Death" in the 14th Century for that.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #53 March 14, 2008 QuoteQuoteEnglish is also a tricky language to learn. Lots of arcane structure and inconsistent 'rules'. . You can thank the "Black Death" in the 14th Century for that. And the Viking raiders too! “From Heofonum to Heavens,” Science, 27 February 2004, Vol. 303. no. 5662, pp. 1326 - 1328 In the 10th century, to consider a classic example, English had an object-verb grammar like that used today in Modern German, requiring sentence constructions such as "Hans must the horse tame." By 1400 C.E., the English were using the familiar verb-object grammar of "Hans must tame the horse." French underwent a similar change before the 16th century, whereas German retained its basic grammar. To find out why such changes happen, researchers explore the historical circumstances surrounding them. In the past few years, based on a comparative analysis of religious texts from northern and southern England, Kroch and his colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania have suggested that northern English was transformed during the 11th and 12th century as Viking conquerors married native Anglo-Saxon women, who spoke Old English. The resulting bilingual households became crucibles for linguistic change. For example, whereas Old English had distinct verb endings to mark differences in person, number, and tense, the speakers of what is now called Early Middle English began using simpler verbs--perhaps because the Scandinavians had difficulties keeping track of all the verb forms--and settled on a simplified system closer to what we use today. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #54 March 14, 2008 Quote Quote English is also a tricky language to learn. Lots of arcane structure and inconsistent 'rules'. . You can thank the "Black Death" in the 14th Century for that. Aye, and people pissing off to foriegn parts, fucking up updating our beautiful tongue. i.e Gotten or write me W,T.F is that all about (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #55 March 14, 2008 Quote Alright, I had that one coming. I lived in England for 2 1/2 yrs so I became quite accustomed (sp) to the Queens English. I Lived in Finchingfield and Haverhill. I worked with a bloke who had been born and raised in that same area. But he seemed to roll the Cockney, Birmingham, Liverpool. and every other English accent all into one. Most of the time I could barely understand him. I'm alright. You alright? Sounds like Forrest Whitaker in the Crying gameWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #56 March 14, 2008 QuoteQuote>Then in his second post he doesn't know how to spell an english word? ?? That's pretty common, I've discovered. Most immigrants I know speak and write english far better than people who were born here. Why is that? I believe part of the problem is how high academic achievement is not typically an accomplishment that merits admiration from one's peers in school. Many first generation immigrants view school as an opportunity to be exploited for maximum benefit, studying hard for the best grades they can get. Also, many first generation immigrants recognize that, as a second language, they have to put more effort into learning English than native English speakers. One other reason (I'm sure there are many more) is that first generation immigrants are exposed to less improperly spoken English, so they don't suffer the problems stemming from proper English sounding incorrect. (For example, Rush are a Canadian rock trio. does not sound correct but is, since Rush is a plural noun.)Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #57 March 15, 2008 Quote Why is that? Is it because the immigrants who speak and write englis better than us, go to classes and learn our language properly? No. It is because when you learn a new language, and got a new word, you'll ger it spelled first. Then you'll be told how it's pronounced, and then - what it means. Then there is no way for you to write "buy" instead of "bye". But when you learn the language natively, you learn the words by their pronounce, and at this time you have no idea how they're spelled. You learn spelling later, and if you're not using it often, you'll forget it as any other unused skill.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #58 March 15, 2008 Quote Quote Alright, I had that one coming. I lived in England for 2 1/2 yrs so I became quite accustomed (sp) to the Queens English. I Lived in Finchingfield and Haverhill. I worked with a bloke who had been born and raised in that same area. But he seemed to roll the Cockney, Birmingham, Liverpool. and every other English accent all into one. Most of the time I could barely understand him. I'm alright. You alright? Sounds like Forrest Whitaker in the Crying game Or like he had a gob full of shite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #59 March 15, 2008 QuoteQuote Why is that? Is it because the immigrants who speak and write englis better than us, go to classes and learn our language properly? No. It is because when you learn a new language, and got a new word, you'll ger it spelled first. Then you'll be told how it's pronounced, and then - what it means. Then there is no way for you to write "buy" instead of "bye". But when you learn the language natively, you learn the words by their pronounce, and at this time you have no idea how they're spelled. You learn spelling later, and if you're not using it often, you'll forget it as any other unused skill. That's a very good point. As I recall, growing-up, my mom worked with me on speaking and spelling before I went to kindergarten. It helped me a great deal, once I started school. I think too, in this rapidly growing 'techno-society' we live in, things like text messaging and other influences really mess with people's minds in regard to our language. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #60 March 18, 2008 ahem"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #61 March 18, 2008 That's what I'm talkin' about!Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brittentay 0 #62 March 18, 2008 you did catch the irony of the sign, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #63 March 18, 2008 Quote you did catch the irony of the sign, right? Oh, I think it's more plastic-y and aluminum-y than irony, myself I also agree that text messaging and constant email are reducing the perceived need for eloquence. Pity, that. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #64 March 18, 2008 Quote you did catch the irony of the sign, right? Give 'em a break -- they DID get the Mayor's name right (I assume ). . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #65 March 18, 2008 Quote you did catch the irony of the sign, right? Wendy beat me to it. Thanks, Wendy!Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brittentay 0 #66 March 18, 2008 Quote Quote you did catch the irony of the sign, right? Oh, I think it's more plastic-y and aluminum-y than irony, myself I also agree that text messaging and constant email are reducing the perceived need for eloquence. Pity, that. Wendy W. very true, but in this case i really think the misspelling of the word 'exceptions' is more annoying than the lack of eloquence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
