Protesters Plan to Put Military Recruiters In Cages!

[warpedskydiver 0]

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>You have a very loose interpretation of what a hero is.

And you have an even looser interpretation of who deserves to be assaulted.

An attempt to harm or kidnap any person should be dealt with with all the force that one can summon.

To kidnap a soldier is an act that will result in physical resistance by those personnel, and any other force the military can produce.

I never said that the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, or Marines would harm someone without due cause.

They are governed by the UCMJ, and will act in accordance.

The protesters will not.

[jakee 1,564]

Do you see any kind of difference between a) thinking what someone is doing is, like, totally great and b) thinking it would be a PR blunder to beat the living shit out of someone for trying to do it? The same, or different?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,564]

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An attempt to harm or kidnap any person should be dealt with with all the force that one can summon.

Or maybe all the force that is neccesary would be a better idea?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,564]

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But the minute they move towards recruiters to try to put them in said cage...deadly force becomes acceptable.

Do you honestly think that someone being shot dead in a recruiting office for the crime of walking towards a recruiter with a birdcage would not be a PR disaster for the military?

Since it simply wouldn't happen it's obviously a moot point, but still - really?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[warpedskydiver 0]

The attempted kidnap of a servicemember is an action that allows the use of deadly force, it does not require that the force be in proportion to the perceived threat.

In other words "do it and you will be killed in all likelyhood."

Unless you feel you need to rewrite the rules for U.S. Military Force Protection.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Now you have resorted to making crap up the prove your point.

Birdcage?

[jakee 1,564]

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Birdcage?

How sturdy a cage could it possibly be if they're going to carry it in by hand?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,078]

>But the minute they move towards recruiters to try to put them in
>said cage...deadly force becomes acceptable.

Riiight. And if they wear a funny hat, you can shoot them dead on sight. After all, they might be enemy soldiers, or even (gasp) TERRORISTS!

Like I said, if you want to hand these people a victory, overreact. If you want to see them vanish into obscurity, ignore them.

[jakee 1,564]

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The attempted kidnap of a servicemember is an action that allows the use of deadly force, it does not require that the force be in proportion to the perceived threat.

So what? I'd be pretty fucking amazed if it 'required' the use of deadly force either. It comes down to what is a more appropriate reaction. Do you think shooting a hippy carrying out a publicity stunt would be the most appropriate course of action?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[warpedskydiver 0]

Do you truly believe what you post?

I don't think that you are that dense.

[auburnguy 0]

Power to the recruiters, deadly force is probably a bit much but a few broken bones seems appropriate. There is a difference between practicing free speech and being a provocative dick, these people are being dicks. I hope the recruiters capture the cage and put the protesters in it, that would be the best resolution to this situation.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=163653&title=marines-in-berkley

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

[billvon 3,078]

>deadly force is probably a bit much but a few broken bones
>seems appropriate.

And if that happens, as I've said, you hand them their victory over the military.

>There is a difference between practicing free speech and being a provocative dick.

Of course. A provocative dick is saying something you don't want to hear. But the right to free speech, fortunately, does not depend on who is a "dick" and who is a hero. Everyone gets free time.

Of course, the instance someone gets hurt (say, a broken bone) then the right to free speech goes out the window, and the assaulter goes to jail - no matter what uniform or flag he hides behind.

[jakee 1,564]

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There is a difference between practicing free speech and being a provocative dick, these people are being dicks.

No there isn't. There are other laws they might break though.

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Power to the recruiters, deadly force is probably a bit much but a few broken bones seems appropriate... I hope the recruiters capture the cage and put the protesters in it, that would be the best resolution to this situation.

I hope they react in a professional manner and handle the situation with the minimum fallout. That would probably be a good advert for the military.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,564]

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Do you truly believe what you post?

Lets see - I'm saying that beating the shit out of, or killing, a bunch of dumbass protestors isn't a sensible first resort.

Are you so fucking deluded that you think I'm wrong in that? I can't even believe this conversation is happening.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[auburnguy 0]

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>deadly force is probably a bit much but a few broken bones
>seems appropriate.

And if that happens, as I've said, you hand them their victory over the military.

>There is a difference between practicing free speech and being a provocative dick.

Of course. A provocative dick is saying something you don't want to hear. But the right to free speech, fortunately, does not depend on who is a "dick" and who is a hero. Everyone gets free time.

Of course, the instance someone gets hurt (say, a broken bone) then the right to free speech goes out the window, and the assaulter goes to jail - no matter what uniform or flag he hides behind.

You sound like a moral relativist which would explain all of your comments. "what flag they hide behind", you definitely sound like a berkeley hippie who hates America.

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

[DZJ 0]

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Is announcing plans to capture, kidnap, and imprison US Military personnel all fun and games to you, or is it a real crime with real consequences.?
--
Or show up fully intending on kidnap and imprisonment of US Military personnel...
--
An attempt to harm or kidnap any person should be dealt with with all the force that one can summon.

To kidnap a soldier is an act that will result in physical resistance by those personnel, and any other force the military can produce.
--
The attempted kidnap of a servicemember is an action that allows the use of deadly force, it does not require that the force be in proportion to the perceived threat.

Forgive me but as far as I can see, when I contrast your remarks above with your own earlier post (no.3 in this thread), it appears that you have fallen hook line and sinker for these protestors’ bait.

(And regarding ‘does not require that the force be in proportion’, would you be ok with the gunning down of ‘kidnappers’ armed with feather dusters, or water pistols?)

[billvon 3,078]

>You sound like a moral relativist . . .

I am indeed.

When a man kills someone in self defense, that is often permissible. When he kills someone during a robbery attempt, then he goes to jail (at least.)

Why? They are the SAME action with the SAME result! But circumstances matter. That's why most laws take into account the circumstances surrounding a crime and not just the action itself. Moral relativism in action.

>which would explain all of your comments. "what flag they hide behind",
>you definitely sound like a berkeley hippie who hates America.

Sorry, I mistook you for someone with whom one could hold a rational discussion.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Quote

Is announcing plans to capture, kidnap, and imprison US Military personnel all fun and games to you, or is it a real crime with real consequences.?
--
Or show up fully intending on kidnap and imprisonment of US Military personnel...
--
An attempt to harm or kidnap any person should be dealt with with all the force that one can summon.

To kidnap a soldier is an act that will result in physical resistance by those personnel, and any other force the military can produce.
--
The attempted kidnap of a servicemember is an action that allows the use of deadly force, it does not require that the force be in proportion to the perceived threat.

Forgive me but as far as I can see, when I contrast your remarks above with your own earlier post (no.3 in this thread), it appears that you have fallen hook line and sinker for these protestors’ bait.

(And regarding ‘does not require that the force be in proportion’, would you be ok with the gunning down of ‘kidnappers’ armed with feather dusters, or water pistols?)

If a kidnapper was taking your daughter out of her bedroom, would you ask him if he is armed, and if not would you then only act in proportion to the threat?

Stop!, or I will yell STOP! again!

[billvon 3,078]

>If a kidnapper was taking your daughter out of her bedroom, would
>you ask him if he is armed, and if not would you then only act in
>proportion to the threat?

If someone came up to you in an office building with a birdcage, and threatened to put you in it, and you shot them "in self defense" - you would go to jail for a long, long time. If you claimed you "feared serious injury or death" the jury would have a good laugh - and still find you guilty. No matter what uniform you were wearing.

[rushmc 23]

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>where one walks into a police station or gun range/store and waves a gun.

If one were to walk into a police station or gun range and wave a cage, and someone shot them, they would (rightfully) go to jail for a long time.

But the minute they move towards recruiters to try to put them in said cage...deadly force becomes acceptable.

...and, unfortuantly, the haters of the US will get the propoganda to forward thier anti US bull shit

Some of them are showing their true "colors" here

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

You love playing where you have no business dont you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Do you truly believe what you post?

I don't think that you are that dense.

trolling posts are flying here. See them, ignore them

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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But the minute they move towards recruiters to try to put them in said cage...deadly force becomes acceptable.

Do you honestly think that someone being shot dead in a recruiting office for the crime of walking towards a recruiter with a birdcage would not be a PR disaster for the military?

Since it simply wouldn't happen it's obviously a moot point, but still - really?

Let me inject reality into all of this.

In the 90s, a homeless advocate type in Berkeley broke into the Chancellor's home at night. Police were called. When she was found, she went at the cops with a large knife and was shot repeatedly until she fell.

A few of the dumbasses that populate the city cried fowl and wrote graffitti on the sidewalks like "Remember Rosebud." The rest of us concluded - 'bitch got what she deserved' and gave it not a second thought.

Tomorrow there will be some violent acts from the more frustrated of the peaceniks, probably in the form of property vandalism. But there's no guarantee that some will go further, and people will be prepared for more serious threats. If some nuts really try to assault soldiers in a recruiting station and get hurt badly in the process (and yes, trying to stuff them into cage qualifies), more than 90% of America will conclude that they got what they asked for. Few will assert that the soldiers should allow themselves to be caged and paraded as an expression of the 1st Amendment.

So yeah, the soldiers are covered from both a moral and a publicity perspective. This is quite a step above pie throwing or picketing.

[billvon 3,078]

>When she was found, she went at the cops with a large knife and was
> shot repeatedly until she fell.

Good for them. Now the $64,000 question -

Was she shot because she was a protester talking shit, or was she shot because she was threatening someone's life with a knife?

Bonus question:

If she had a birdcage instead of a knife, and was making dumbass statements about putting people in it, would the shooting have been justified?

[GQ_jumper 4]

Of course. A provocative dick is saying something you don't want to hear. But the right to free speech, fortunately, does not depend on who is a "dick" and who is a hero. Everyone gets free time.