Why Pilots Should Not be Allowed Firearms on Planes

[labrys 0]

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It's still negligent. It's no different than making sure a weapon is cleared before it's handed off or inspected.

What that video does not explain is how the safety came out of the "safe" position and the hammer was cocked.

Let's look at some of the questions and accusations being made on this thread:

Q: Why was the weapon unstowed?
A: The weapon was supposed to be unstowed.

Q: Why was the weapon out of it's holster?
A: The weapon was not out of its holster.

Q: Why was the pilot's finger on the trigger?
A: The pilot's finger was not on the trigger.

Q: Why was the safety off?
A: We don't know the position of the safety as a fact.

I, for one, am willing to refrain from accusing the pilot of negligence in the absense of all the facts. A lot of mistakes and false accusations have already been made in this thread.

Owned by Remi #?

[warpedskydiver 0]

I can guarantee you that if the safety was on, the pistol will not fire.

Of course in order for people to believe this, they will need to actually learn how the pistol is designed, and how the safety works.

Sadly some people will always remain ignorant, and insist that modern firearms "just go off"

[labrys 0]

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I can guarantee you that if the safety was on, the pistol will not fire.

Yes, because it's an historical fact that a firearm's saftey has never, ever failed.

I'm not claiming that the safety was on. I'm not claiming that the safety was off. I'm not informed and neither are you.

Sadly, some people will always remain ignorant and insist on jumping to conclusions in the absense of evidence.

Tell ya what. I have a handgun right here. How would you feel about letting me load it, point it at your head, and depress the trigger?

I promise I'll have the safety on

Edit to add:

I started shooting when I was 6, was on a state champion rifle team when I was 12, and qualified as a sharpshooter with both th .45 and the M-16 in the military.

You can trust me to know if the safety is on or off. Really. I promise.

Just keep your chin up and close your eyes. You'll be fine.

Owned by Remi #?

[shropshire 0]

O.K, I'll ask my daft question again... How did the round accidentally get into the chamber?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[labrys 0]

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O.K, I'll ask my daft question again... How did the round accidentally get into the chamber?

It's not a daft question at all. My point is that it's an unanswered question.

If the pilot turns out to have been negligent, so be it. Let's wait until the facts are all on hand to throw his ass into the fire, shall we?

Owned by Remi #?

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Tell ya what. I have a handgun right here. How would you feel about letting me load it, point it at your head, and depress the trigger?

I promise I'll have the safety on

Edit to add:

I started shooting when I was 6, was on a state champion rifle team when I was 12, and qualified as a sharpshooter with both th .45 and the M-16 in the military.

You can trust me to know if the safety is on or off. Really. I promise.

Just keep your chin up and close your eyes. You'll be fine.

You seem to completely miss my point.

That pistol is a HK USP40 it cannot go off unless the saftey is off and the trigger is pressed.

Sig is another that has the same type of feature.

The firing pin cannot strike the primer unless the trigger is squeezed.

As for pointing the pistol at me?

FU, are you just plain stupid?

You also claim alot of experience at using firearms, and then you say you will point a gun at me????

[labrys 0]

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You also claim alot of experience at using firearms, and then you say you will point a gun at me????

Sure, why not? After all, the safety is engaged. According to your account, that renders the weapon useless and safe, right? After all...

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I can guarantee you that if the safety was on, the pistol will not fire.

You can't have it both ways.

In reality, I would never point a weapon at anyone without intent to kill regardless of the position of the safety. You're implying that a weapon with the safety engaged is harmless.

My point is that if you're willing to stand by your words, you should be okay with having that weapon against your head, huh?

Owned by Remi #?

[rushmc 23]

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I can guarantee you that if the safety was on, the pistol will not fire.

Of course in order for people to believe this, they will need to actually learn how the pistol is designed, and how the safety works.

Sadly some people will always remain ignorant, and insist that modern firearms "just go off"

What what do you mean? My gun has jumped off the table and tried to shoot somebody!! Well, maybe it didn't, but I know it can!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Tell ya what. I have a handgun right here. How would you feel about letting me load it, point it at your head, and depress the trigger?

I promise I'll have the safety on

Edit to add:

I started shooting when I was 6, was on a state champion rifle team when I was 12, and qualified as a sharpshooter with both th .45 and the M-16 in the military.

You can trust me to know if the safety is on or off. Really. I promise.

Just keep your chin up and close your eyes. You'll be fine.

You seem to completely miss my point.

That pistol is a HK USP40 it cannot go off unless the saftey is off and the trigger is pressed.

Sig is another that has the same type of feature.

The firing pin cannot strike the primer unless the trigger is squeezed.

As for pointing the pistol at me?

FU, are you just plain stupid?

You also claim alot of experience at using firearms, and then you say you will point a gun at me????

Game, set, match


(one who claims extensive firearms experience says (even jokingly) he will point his firearm at you with the safety on!!??)

and that is a joke????

not

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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You also claim alot of experience at using firearms, and then you say you will point a gun at me????

Sure, why not? After all, the safety is engaged. According to your account, that renders the weapon useless and safe, right? After all...

Quote

I can guarantee you that if the safety was on, the pistol will not fire.

You can't have it both ways.

In reality, I would never point a weapon at anyone regardless of the position of the safety. You're implying that a weapon with the safety engaged is harmless.

My point is that if you're willing to stand by your words, you should be okay with having that weapon against your head, huh?

and if you really have the experience you claim you would not even ask this question

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[labrys 0]

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and if you really have the experience you claim you would not even ask this question

Negative. I'm asking because I have the experience. Feel free to explain why you think otherwise.

Owned by Remi #?

[rushmc 23]

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and if you really have the experience you claim you would not even ask this question

Negative. I'm asking because I have the experience. Feel free to explain why you think otherwise.

I think otherwise because of the question you posed.

Maybe YOU should find out about someone elses experience before you make statements as you did. (not mine)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[labrys 0]

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Maybe YOU should find out about someone elses experience before you make statements as you did. (not mine)

I didn't question anyone else's experience.

Your comment doesn't explain why anyone should challenge mine.

I'll take misdirection, smoke, and mirrors for $2000, Alex

Owned by Remi #?

[rushmc 23]

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Maybe YOU should find out about someone elses experience before you make statements as you did. (not mine)

I didn't question anyone else's experience.

Your comment doesn't explain why anyone should challenge mine.

I'll take misdirection, smoke, and mirrors for $2000, Alex

YOU asked somebody if they would allow YOU to point a gun at thier head with the safety on.

If YOU have the experience YOU claim, YOU would not even ask such a question.

Understand?

The question YOU asked is not acceptable to me under any circumstances. Even when trying to make a point

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[labrys 0]

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YOU asked somebody if they would allow YOU to point a gun at thier head with the safety on.

If YOU have the experience YOU claim, YOU would not even ask such a question.

Understand?

The question YOU asked is not acceptable to me under any circumstances. Even when trying to make a point

In other words.... when all else fails....

Forget that shit. I really don't care what's acceptable to you, Rush.

If warped wants to assert that a firearm with the safety engaged is "guaranteed" not to fire, he should have no problem having that firearm pointed at him.

I've made my point that the position of the safety is not an issue in any circumstance and IS NOT KNOWN in this one in particular.

If you want to keep backing up Warped in his position feel free. I've got plenty of rounds. But that's not an issue... cause my safety is on

Owned by Remi #?

[Gawain 0]

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and if you really have the experience you claim you would not even ask this question

Negative. I'm asking because I have the experience. Feel free to explain why you think otherwise.

You seem to have left out the experience that you should not point the weapon at someone unless you intend to use it.

On a tangent, I've noticed that a great number of the "pro-gun" folks are the ones that think this weapon was mishandled, negligence. Whereas the more liberal minded seem perfectly willing to accept this discharge as an accident.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[rushmc 23]

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YOU asked somebody if they would allow YOU to point a gun at thier head with the safety on.

If YOU have the experience YOU claim, YOU would not even ask such a question.

Understand?

The question YOU asked is not acceptable to me under any circumstances. Even when trying to make a point

In other words.... when all else fails....

Forget that shit. I really don't care what's acceptable to you, Rush.

If warped wants to assert that a firearm with the safety engaged is "guaranteed" not to fire, he should have no problem having that firearm pointed at him.

I've made my point that the position of the safety is not an issue in any circumstance and IS NOT KNOWN in this one in particular.

If you want to keep backing up Warped in his position feel free. I've got plenty of rounds. But that's not an issue... cause my safety is on

Thats cool. I will just make a mental note to NOT let you teach gun safety to my children. Not with your attitude toward safety

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Quote

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and if you really have the experience you claim you would not even ask this question

Negative. I'm asking because I have the experience. Feel free to explain why you think otherwise.

You seem to have left out the experience that you should not point the weapon at someone unless you intend to use it.

On a tangent, I've noticed that a great number of the "pro-gun" folks are the ones that think this weapon was mishandled, negligence. Whereas the more liberal minded seem perfectly willing to accept this discharge as an accident.

You make a good point. As to this situation I do not yet have an opinion. As has been seen on this site many many times, many like to jump the gun to get an opinion out there. It would seem there is much yet to come out. Me for one, will wait and see

Editted to add. Some kind of mistake must have been made. Many possibilities but I will not easily accept this as an "accident"

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,991]

Your one warning.

[labrys 0]

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You seem to have left out the experience that you should not point the weapon at someone unless you intend to use it.

On a tangent, I've noticed that a great number of the "pro-gun" folks are the ones that think this weapon was mishandled, negligence. Whereas the more liberal minded seem perfectly willing to accept this discharge as an accident.

Gawain,

I am 100% willing to accept that this weapon was mishandled and that the pilot is responsible for the discharge.

I am also 100% willing to wait for all the facts to come out before condeming hin.

Owned by Remi #?

[labrys 0]

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Thats cool. I will just make a mental note to NOT let you teach gun safety to my children. Not with your attitude toward safety

So by that standard it's okay to teach a kid that a weapon is guaranteed not to discharge if the safety is engaged?

Go ahead dude... teach your kids that a safety never fails.

I'll go with teaching mine that nothing is certain.

Let's get the kids together for a little russian roulette. i'll buy the beer.

Owned by Remi #?

[rushmc 23]

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Thats cool. I will just make a mental note to NOT let you teach gun safety to my children. Not with your attitude toward safety

So by that standard it's okay to teach a kid that a weapon is guaranteed not to discharge if the safety is engaged?

Go ahead dude... teach your kids that a safety never fails.Now here is a dam stretch. Crazy dam conclusion on your part

I'll go with teaching mine that nothing is certain. Well, you seem to think it is ok to aim a gun at someones head even if you do not want to shoot them

Let's get the kids together for a little russian roulette. i'll buy the beer.

As I stated, mental note to self, do not let this one teach my kids about gun safety.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[labrys 0]

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I'll go with teaching mine that nothing is certain. Well, you seem to think it is ok to aim a gun at someones head even if you do not want to shoot them

You sound really cool and in control until you stop taking my posts out of context.

This is exactly what I said:

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In reality, I would never point a weapon at anyone without intent to kill regardless of the position of the safety. You're implying that a weapon with the safety engaged is harmless.

What part of that quote is unacceptable, Rush?

Owned by Remi #?

[rushmc 23]

Here is your original post pal

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Tell ya what. I have a handgun right here. How would you feel about letting me load it, point it at your head, and depress the trigger?

I promise I'll have the safety on

You added the other later, in another post, to cover your ass maybe?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Here is the whole post.

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Yes, because it's an historical fact that a firearm's saftey has never, ever failed.

I'm not claiming that the safety was on. I'm not claiming that the safety was off. I'm not informed and neither are you.

Sadly, some people will always remain ignorant and insist on jumping to conclusions in the absense of evidence.

Tell ya what. I have a handgun right here. How would you feel about letting me load it, point it at your head, and depress the trigger?

I promise I'll have the safety on

Edit to add:

I started shooting when I was 6, was on a state champion rifle team when I was 12, and qualified as a sharpshooter with both th .45 and the M-16 in the military.

You can trust me to know if the safety is on or off. Really. I promise.

Just keep your chin up and close your eyes. You'll be fine.

Did I get the context right?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln