mnealtx 0 #26 April 9, 2008 Clicky. ETA: From a Fox interview with one of the survivors: Quote"He never took his eye off the grenade, his only movement was down toward it," said a 28-year-old lieutenant who sustained shrapnel wounds to both legs that day. "He undoubtedly saved mine and the other SEALs' lives, and we owe him."Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #27 April 9, 2008 QuoteQuote Generals and field marshalls probably should do that sort of thing They can't approve it. I just have a problem with elected officials stealing lime light at the expense of the fallen. there is nothing solemn when the party political circus shouts light camera action. elected officals are not the ones who have walked a mile in a soldiers shoes, by enlarge, Senior Ranking officers Have, and i feel they are better suited to the taskYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #28 April 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote Generals and field marshalls probably should do that sort of thing They can't approve it. I just have a problem with elected officials stealing lime light at the expense of the fallen. there is nothing solemn when the party political circus shouts light camera action. elected officals are not the ones who have walked a mile in a soldiers shoes, by enlarge, Senior Ranking officers Have, and i feel they are better suited to the task And yet you seem to have no qualms with the royal family handing out the VC - a bit of 'do as I say, not as I do', hmm?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #29 April 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote And yet you seem to have no qualms with the royal family handing out the VC - a bit of 'do as I say, not as I do', hmm? Get it right Mike, I'm an AUSSIE not a POM i do have a probelm with the royal familiy doing Anything relating to ozYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #30 April 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote And yet you seem to have no qualms with the royal family handing out the VC - a bit of 'do as I say, not as I do', hmm? Get it right Mike, I'm an AUSSIE not a POM i do have a probelm with the royal familiy doing Anything relating to oz Hmmm... below in regards to the Victoria Cross of Australia: QuoteAwards will be granted by the Governor-General with the approval of the Sovereign. So sorry - I guess YOUR equivalent of a President would be giving out your nation's highest honor as well, not your Queen - she just approves it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Misternatural 0 #31 April 9, 2008 Some people die with honors and accolades for their deeds, most just die. Some die fighting lung cancer, some die fighting an enemy. Facing death is the one thing we all have in common. But I see your point in that it is rare for an individual to sacrifice themselves for the lives of others.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #32 April 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote So sorry - I guess YOUR equivalent of a President would be giving out your nation's highest honor as well, not your Queen - she just approves it. No the GG is not an elected offical, he is appointed, and i don't have a big issue with him giving out medals, he is a Retired senior officer (although he doesnot have to be to be appointed). I have a problem with non military persons bestowing award on militaryYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #33 April 9, 2008 Both your statement and mine are true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #34 April 9, 2008 Quote Quote http://patdollard.com/2008/04/pay-tribute-navy-seal-monsoor-receives-moh-posthumously-with-video/ Greater Love Has No Man Than To Lay Down His Life For His Friends (John 15:13) How very true. Did you ask his mother? I am a mother. I'd prefer my kid to be safe and alive without all those shining medals on his coffin and an old man telling lies. Ask your glorious leader in a week. He'll have forgotten who Mr. Monsoor actually was That does not mean I'm debasing that poor dead guy. His name simply is used for progaganda. Reminds me on events 60+ years ago in a country/countries far away from yours.... Does it really matter if the president forgets this man's name? There will be many who will remember him for years to come. Same as those who died before him in past wars. I remember Ralph Campion Bisz. So do many others. http://www.google.com/search?q=ralph+bisz&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DKUS I recieved his POW/MIA bracelet back in 1969 and held on to it until 1997. After learning that he died in Vietnam, I contacted his family and gave them the bracelet. I didn't know Ralph, personally but, I knew him just the same and will always remember him. It doesn't matter what a politician remembers but, it does matter that the common person remembers those who died fighting in a just or unjust war not of their making. I salute PO Monsoor the same as I salute Ltjg Ralph Campion Bisz."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Misternatural 0 #35 April 9, 2008 Well thanks for the response but you do realize who you are talking to: "some dipshits think that cartoon characters are real, and that their liberal, hand wringing, limp wristed, lisping, delusional, bomb throwing, and protesting, is in fact some sort of badge of honor, in their representation of themselves." WS Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #36 April 9, 2008 QuoteI just have a problem with elected officials stealing lime light at the expense of the fallen. I can absolutely see your point. I can. However, there are a couple of issues. 1) The POTUS is a military leader. He is the Commander in Chief. The top dog. Political? Yes. Military? THat, too. We don't see Bill Clinton giving them out anymore because he's not C-in-C anymore. 2) The POTUS is a figurehead. Admiral Mullen may be good within the service (though insulting to a Soldier to get pinned by a fucking squid) but as a figurehead it wouldn't be much. A Medal of Honor recipient gets public recognition. A public figure helps give that. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #37 April 9, 2008 Quote and personally, I think the POTUS who sent him there SHOULD be the one doing it. He should face it. I agree 100%. http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/gallery.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Para_Frog 1 #38 April 9, 2008 Well...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers.- Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #39 April 9, 2008 QuoteWell...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers. Christel is not American. You're aren't fighting or serving in any way to preserve her freedoms or liberties. Take her opinion for what its worth - one voice of the collective world's opinion of the US. The more we trash it, the worse we appear. RIP Michael. Until we meet in Valhalla. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #40 April 9, 2008 I am glad I saw your post I was going to make a thread about the same story. It brought a tear to my eye just hearing what this young man did. I don’t care what you think about the war, and you all know how I feel about it. This man is a hero. He gave up his life for his buddies with out hesitation. Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people who scarifies every thing for people they care about. As for Bush using it for PR maybe but what do you expect the president to do? If he does nothing he is unpatriotic and you would find another way to criticize him. I felt his speech was sincere. You don’t have to be of hero caliber your self to appreciate people who are. I am no fan of Bush but I am a fan of reality and truth. Guys like M. Monsour are the real deal. I know I will remember him and will even take the time to pray for his family. It is the least I can do.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,008 #41 April 9, 2008 >Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people >who scarifies every thing for people they care about. Agreed. He deserves our respect for his sacrifice to protect others. Let's hope that in the future such people aren't put in situations where they need to make such sacrifices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #42 April 9, 2008 Quote>Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people >who scarifies every thing for people they care about. Agreed. He deserves our respect for his sacrifice to protect others. Let's hope that in the future such people aren't put in situations where they need to make such sacrifices. Because of the nature of human beings, I cannot forsee a world where such people and such sacrifices will cease to exist or be necessary. The true measure should not be that it happened, but that its value can not be questioned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #43 April 9, 2008 QuoteWell...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers. You have that about right. She is truly hateful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #44 April 10, 2008 >>Did you ask his mother? << I live in Coronado, CA. I have seen his mother in town on occassion. The last time was at a function here in town. She was constantly flanked by U.S. Navy SEALS and was treated like the hero that she is. She raised a selfless son who gave his life for his Team mates and his country. She is a proud woman and although shrouded in sorrow over the loss of her son, it is not my impression that she is disappointed one bit of the man that he was and his selfless sacrifice. But that is just my perception. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Misternatural 0 #45 April 10, 2008 >I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Your honor, duty and dedications to your fellow soldiers is no doubt great and respectable. You lay down your lives following orders. It is an awesome power and responsibility that your CO's and overseeing politicians have to make sure that your efforts are wisely put into practice. You protect us. But WE are supposed to protect you from being squandered on the front lines, since you as soldiers cannot protest the actions of politicians. We as activists failed. We Democrats failed,Clinton failed,Kerry failed. Blinded by the events of 911 and the subsequent testosterone rush to let the UN inspectors finish their job, To scrutinize and discredit the intelligence that Colin Powell reluctantly sold to the UN and the American public. To allow Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Wolfowitz to bully the American public into a patriotic frenzy- with Capitan Bush pounding on the drum. We could have nipped this in the bud but we didn't, now we see the result. it's a tough lesson. Water under the bridge, now we have what is essentially a desperate colony of the U.S.in the Middle east to support- on top of our own domestic problems. We now have no choice but to make it right. Hopefully our economy and infrastructure can deal with this mistake for the long haul. As i have always said this is going to be at least a 15 year effort.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piper17 1 #46 April 10, 2008 If your personal information is correct, I guess you are in a good position to be talking about glorious leaders, using people for propaganda, etc given what Germany brought forth to the world 60+ years ago. It's too bad the rest of the world didn't have the fortitude to take preemptive action against that "glorious leader"; it might have prevented the evils he and his "master race" perpetrated on much of the rest of the world. Instead, Europe was content to appease him time and again and the millions upon millions of dead in WWII was the result."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,008 #47 April 10, 2008 >Because of the nature of human beings, I cannot forsee a world >where such people and such sacrifices will cease to exist or be necessary. I agree. But we can get closer - and I applaud the people who make the effort. It is far better to honor a good man's life than mourn a good man's death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites downwardspiral 0 #48 April 12, 2008 The President of the United States has presented the Medal of Honor in the name of Congress since the United States code of Law for the Medal of Honor was formed in 1862. I find it amusing someone can perceive 146 years of ceremony as modern day propoganda. PO2 Monsoor is a hero to some and an inspiration to many. May he rest in peace.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #49 April 12, 2008 Quote .... I find it amusing someone can perceive 146 years of ceremony as modern day propoganda. .... Really? Then you should take some closer looks at history. Any kind of "ceremonies" (such as coming Olympic games including the torch running all over the world) have been used for every kind of propaganda - if it's a marching song, laurel wreaths, even AH's sprawled right arm - all is copied from the past and used for propaganda reasons. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites downwardspiral 0 #50 April 12, 2008 Well I don't completely disagree and nor am I idealistic but I just think your perception of how the world works is a bit cynical in this regard....don't ya think?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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mnealtx 0 #30 April 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote And yet you seem to have no qualms with the royal family handing out the VC - a bit of 'do as I say, not as I do', hmm? Get it right Mike, I'm an AUSSIE not a POM i do have a probelm with the royal familiy doing Anything relating to oz Hmmm... below in regards to the Victoria Cross of Australia: QuoteAwards will be granted by the Governor-General with the approval of the Sovereign. So sorry - I guess YOUR equivalent of a President would be giving out your nation's highest honor as well, not your Queen - she just approves it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Misternatural 0 #31 April 9, 2008 Some people die with honors and accolades for their deeds, most just die. Some die fighting lung cancer, some die fighting an enemy. Facing death is the one thing we all have in common. But I see your point in that it is rare for an individual to sacrifice themselves for the lives of others.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #32 April 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote So sorry - I guess YOUR equivalent of a President would be giving out your nation's highest honor as well, not your Queen - she just approves it. No the GG is not an elected offical, he is appointed, and i don't have a big issue with him giving out medals, he is a Retired senior officer (although he doesnot have to be to be appointed). I have a problem with non military persons bestowing award on militaryYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #33 April 9, 2008 Both your statement and mine are true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #34 April 9, 2008 Quote Quote http://patdollard.com/2008/04/pay-tribute-navy-seal-monsoor-receives-moh-posthumously-with-video/ Greater Love Has No Man Than To Lay Down His Life For His Friends (John 15:13) How very true. Did you ask his mother? I am a mother. I'd prefer my kid to be safe and alive without all those shining medals on his coffin and an old man telling lies. Ask your glorious leader in a week. He'll have forgotten who Mr. Monsoor actually was That does not mean I'm debasing that poor dead guy. His name simply is used for progaganda. Reminds me on events 60+ years ago in a country/countries far away from yours.... Does it really matter if the president forgets this man's name? There will be many who will remember him for years to come. Same as those who died before him in past wars. I remember Ralph Campion Bisz. So do many others. http://www.google.com/search?q=ralph+bisz&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DKUS I recieved his POW/MIA bracelet back in 1969 and held on to it until 1997. After learning that he died in Vietnam, I contacted his family and gave them the bracelet. I didn't know Ralph, personally but, I knew him just the same and will always remember him. It doesn't matter what a politician remembers but, it does matter that the common person remembers those who died fighting in a just or unjust war not of their making. I salute PO Monsoor the same as I salute Ltjg Ralph Campion Bisz."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Misternatural 0 #35 April 9, 2008 Well thanks for the response but you do realize who you are talking to: "some dipshits think that cartoon characters are real, and that their liberal, hand wringing, limp wristed, lisping, delusional, bomb throwing, and protesting, is in fact some sort of badge of honor, in their representation of themselves." WS Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #36 April 9, 2008 QuoteI just have a problem with elected officials stealing lime light at the expense of the fallen. I can absolutely see your point. I can. However, there are a couple of issues. 1) The POTUS is a military leader. He is the Commander in Chief. The top dog. Political? Yes. Military? THat, too. We don't see Bill Clinton giving them out anymore because he's not C-in-C anymore. 2) The POTUS is a figurehead. Admiral Mullen may be good within the service (though insulting to a Soldier to get pinned by a fucking squid) but as a figurehead it wouldn't be much. A Medal of Honor recipient gets public recognition. A public figure helps give that. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #37 April 9, 2008 Quote and personally, I think the POTUS who sent him there SHOULD be the one doing it. He should face it. I agree 100%. http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/gallery.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Para_Frog 1 #38 April 9, 2008 Well...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers.- Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #39 April 9, 2008 QuoteWell...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers. Christel is not American. You're aren't fighting or serving in any way to preserve her freedoms or liberties. Take her opinion for what its worth - one voice of the collective world's opinion of the US. The more we trash it, the worse we appear. RIP Michael. Until we meet in Valhalla. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #40 April 9, 2008 I am glad I saw your post I was going to make a thread about the same story. It brought a tear to my eye just hearing what this young man did. I don’t care what you think about the war, and you all know how I feel about it. This man is a hero. He gave up his life for his buddies with out hesitation. Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people who scarifies every thing for people they care about. As for Bush using it for PR maybe but what do you expect the president to do? If he does nothing he is unpatriotic and you would find another way to criticize him. I felt his speech was sincere. You don’t have to be of hero caliber your self to appreciate people who are. I am no fan of Bush but I am a fan of reality and truth. Guys like M. Monsour are the real deal. I know I will remember him and will even take the time to pray for his family. It is the least I can do.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,008 #41 April 9, 2008 >Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people >who scarifies every thing for people they care about. Agreed. He deserves our respect for his sacrifice to protect others. Let's hope that in the future such people aren't put in situations where they need to make such sacrifices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #42 April 9, 2008 Quote>Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people >who scarifies every thing for people they care about. Agreed. He deserves our respect for his sacrifice to protect others. Let's hope that in the future such people aren't put in situations where they need to make such sacrifices. Because of the nature of human beings, I cannot forsee a world where such people and such sacrifices will cease to exist or be necessary. The true measure should not be that it happened, but that its value can not be questioned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #43 April 9, 2008 QuoteWell...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers. You have that about right. She is truly hateful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #44 April 10, 2008 >>Did you ask his mother? << I live in Coronado, CA. I have seen his mother in town on occassion. The last time was at a function here in town. She was constantly flanked by U.S. Navy SEALS and was treated like the hero that she is. She raised a selfless son who gave his life for his Team mates and his country. She is a proud woman and although shrouded in sorrow over the loss of her son, it is not my impression that she is disappointed one bit of the man that he was and his selfless sacrifice. But that is just my perception. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Misternatural 0 #45 April 10, 2008 >I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Your honor, duty and dedications to your fellow soldiers is no doubt great and respectable. You lay down your lives following orders. It is an awesome power and responsibility that your CO's and overseeing politicians have to make sure that your efforts are wisely put into practice. You protect us. But WE are supposed to protect you from being squandered on the front lines, since you as soldiers cannot protest the actions of politicians. We as activists failed. We Democrats failed,Clinton failed,Kerry failed. Blinded by the events of 911 and the subsequent testosterone rush to let the UN inspectors finish their job, To scrutinize and discredit the intelligence that Colin Powell reluctantly sold to the UN and the American public. To allow Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Wolfowitz to bully the American public into a patriotic frenzy- with Capitan Bush pounding on the drum. We could have nipped this in the bud but we didn't, now we see the result. it's a tough lesson. Water under the bridge, now we have what is essentially a desperate colony of the U.S.in the Middle east to support- on top of our own domestic problems. We now have no choice but to make it right. Hopefully our economy and infrastructure can deal with this mistake for the long haul. As i have always said this is going to be at least a 15 year effort.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piper17 1 #46 April 10, 2008 If your personal information is correct, I guess you are in a good position to be talking about glorious leaders, using people for propaganda, etc given what Germany brought forth to the world 60+ years ago. It's too bad the rest of the world didn't have the fortitude to take preemptive action against that "glorious leader"; it might have prevented the evils he and his "master race" perpetrated on much of the rest of the world. Instead, Europe was content to appease him time and again and the millions upon millions of dead in WWII was the result."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,008 #47 April 10, 2008 >Because of the nature of human beings, I cannot forsee a world >where such people and such sacrifices will cease to exist or be necessary. I agree. But we can get closer - and I applaud the people who make the effort. It is far better to honor a good man's life than mourn a good man's death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites downwardspiral 0 #48 April 12, 2008 The President of the United States has presented the Medal of Honor in the name of Congress since the United States code of Law for the Medal of Honor was formed in 1862. I find it amusing someone can perceive 146 years of ceremony as modern day propoganda. PO2 Monsoor is a hero to some and an inspiration to many. May he rest in peace.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #49 April 12, 2008 Quote .... I find it amusing someone can perceive 146 years of ceremony as modern day propoganda. .... Really? Then you should take some closer looks at history. Any kind of "ceremonies" (such as coming Olympic games including the torch running all over the world) have been used for every kind of propaganda - if it's a marching song, laurel wreaths, even AH's sprawled right arm - all is copied from the past and used for propaganda reasons. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites downwardspiral 0 #50 April 12, 2008 Well I don't completely disagree and nor am I idealistic but I just think your perception of how the world works is a bit cynical in this regard....don't ya think?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Misternatural 0 #31 April 9, 2008 Some people die with honors and accolades for their deeds, most just die. Some die fighting lung cancer, some die fighting an enemy. Facing death is the one thing we all have in common. But I see your point in that it is rare for an individual to sacrifice themselves for the lives of others.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #32 April 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote So sorry - I guess YOUR equivalent of a President would be giving out your nation's highest honor as well, not your Queen - she just approves it. No the GG is not an elected offical, he is appointed, and i don't have a big issue with him giving out medals, he is a Retired senior officer (although he doesnot have to be to be appointed). I have a problem with non military persons bestowing award on militaryYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #33 April 9, 2008 Both your statement and mine are true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #34 April 9, 2008 Quote Quote http://patdollard.com/2008/04/pay-tribute-navy-seal-monsoor-receives-moh-posthumously-with-video/ Greater Love Has No Man Than To Lay Down His Life For His Friends (John 15:13) How very true. Did you ask his mother? I am a mother. I'd prefer my kid to be safe and alive without all those shining medals on his coffin and an old man telling lies. Ask your glorious leader in a week. He'll have forgotten who Mr. Monsoor actually was That does not mean I'm debasing that poor dead guy. His name simply is used for progaganda. Reminds me on events 60+ years ago in a country/countries far away from yours.... Does it really matter if the president forgets this man's name? There will be many who will remember him for years to come. Same as those who died before him in past wars. I remember Ralph Campion Bisz. So do many others. http://www.google.com/search?q=ralph+bisz&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DKUS I recieved his POW/MIA bracelet back in 1969 and held on to it until 1997. After learning that he died in Vietnam, I contacted his family and gave them the bracelet. I didn't know Ralph, personally but, I knew him just the same and will always remember him. It doesn't matter what a politician remembers but, it does matter that the common person remembers those who died fighting in a just or unjust war not of their making. I salute PO Monsoor the same as I salute Ltjg Ralph Campion Bisz."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Misternatural 0 #35 April 9, 2008 Well thanks for the response but you do realize who you are talking to: "some dipshits think that cartoon characters are real, and that their liberal, hand wringing, limp wristed, lisping, delusional, bomb throwing, and protesting, is in fact some sort of badge of honor, in their representation of themselves." WS Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #36 April 9, 2008 QuoteI just have a problem with elected officials stealing lime light at the expense of the fallen. I can absolutely see your point. I can. However, there are a couple of issues. 1) The POTUS is a military leader. He is the Commander in Chief. The top dog. Political? Yes. Military? THat, too. We don't see Bill Clinton giving them out anymore because he's not C-in-C anymore. 2) The POTUS is a figurehead. Admiral Mullen may be good within the service (though insulting to a Soldier to get pinned by a fucking squid) but as a figurehead it wouldn't be much. A Medal of Honor recipient gets public recognition. A public figure helps give that. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #37 April 9, 2008 Quote and personally, I think the POTUS who sent him there SHOULD be the one doing it. He should face it. I agree 100%. http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/gallery.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Para_Frog 1 #38 April 9, 2008 Well...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers.- Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #39 April 9, 2008 QuoteWell...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers. Christel is not American. You're aren't fighting or serving in any way to preserve her freedoms or liberties. Take her opinion for what its worth - one voice of the collective world's opinion of the US. The more we trash it, the worse we appear. RIP Michael. Until we meet in Valhalla. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #40 April 9, 2008 I am glad I saw your post I was going to make a thread about the same story. It brought a tear to my eye just hearing what this young man did. I don’t care what you think about the war, and you all know how I feel about it. This man is a hero. He gave up his life for his buddies with out hesitation. Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people who scarifies every thing for people they care about. As for Bush using it for PR maybe but what do you expect the president to do? If he does nothing he is unpatriotic and you would find another way to criticize him. I felt his speech was sincere. You don’t have to be of hero caliber your self to appreciate people who are. I am no fan of Bush but I am a fan of reality and truth. Guys like M. Monsour are the real deal. I know I will remember him and will even take the time to pray for his family. It is the least I can do.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,008 #41 April 9, 2008 >Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people >who scarifies every thing for people they care about. Agreed. He deserves our respect for his sacrifice to protect others. Let's hope that in the future such people aren't put in situations where they need to make such sacrifices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #42 April 9, 2008 Quote>Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people >who scarifies every thing for people they care about. Agreed. He deserves our respect for his sacrifice to protect others. Let's hope that in the future such people aren't put in situations where they need to make such sacrifices. Because of the nature of human beings, I cannot forsee a world where such people and such sacrifices will cease to exist or be necessary. The true measure should not be that it happened, but that its value can not be questioned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #43 April 9, 2008 QuoteWell...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers. You have that about right. She is truly hateful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #44 April 10, 2008 >>Did you ask his mother? << I live in Coronado, CA. I have seen his mother in town on occassion. The last time was at a function here in town. She was constantly flanked by U.S. Navy SEALS and was treated like the hero that she is. She raised a selfless son who gave his life for his Team mates and his country. She is a proud woman and although shrouded in sorrow over the loss of her son, it is not my impression that she is disappointed one bit of the man that he was and his selfless sacrifice. But that is just my perception. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Misternatural 0 #45 April 10, 2008 >I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Your honor, duty and dedications to your fellow soldiers is no doubt great and respectable. You lay down your lives following orders. It is an awesome power and responsibility that your CO's and overseeing politicians have to make sure that your efforts are wisely put into practice. You protect us. But WE are supposed to protect you from being squandered on the front lines, since you as soldiers cannot protest the actions of politicians. We as activists failed. We Democrats failed,Clinton failed,Kerry failed. Blinded by the events of 911 and the subsequent testosterone rush to let the UN inspectors finish their job, To scrutinize and discredit the intelligence that Colin Powell reluctantly sold to the UN and the American public. To allow Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Wolfowitz to bully the American public into a patriotic frenzy- with Capitan Bush pounding on the drum. We could have nipped this in the bud but we didn't, now we see the result. it's a tough lesson. Water under the bridge, now we have what is essentially a desperate colony of the U.S.in the Middle east to support- on top of our own domestic problems. We now have no choice but to make it right. Hopefully our economy and infrastructure can deal with this mistake for the long haul. As i have always said this is going to be at least a 15 year effort.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piper17 1 #46 April 10, 2008 If your personal information is correct, I guess you are in a good position to be talking about glorious leaders, using people for propaganda, etc given what Germany brought forth to the world 60+ years ago. It's too bad the rest of the world didn't have the fortitude to take preemptive action against that "glorious leader"; it might have prevented the evils he and his "master race" perpetrated on much of the rest of the world. Instead, Europe was content to appease him time and again and the millions upon millions of dead in WWII was the result."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,008 #47 April 10, 2008 >Because of the nature of human beings, I cannot forsee a world >where such people and such sacrifices will cease to exist or be necessary. I agree. But we can get closer - and I applaud the people who make the effort. It is far better to honor a good man's life than mourn a good man's death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites downwardspiral 0 #48 April 12, 2008 The President of the United States has presented the Medal of Honor in the name of Congress since the United States code of Law for the Medal of Honor was formed in 1862. I find it amusing someone can perceive 146 years of ceremony as modern day propoganda. PO2 Monsoor is a hero to some and an inspiration to many. May he rest in peace.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #49 April 12, 2008 Quote .... I find it amusing someone can perceive 146 years of ceremony as modern day propoganda. .... Really? Then you should take some closer looks at history. Any kind of "ceremonies" (such as coming Olympic games including the torch running all over the world) have been used for every kind of propaganda - if it's a marching song, laurel wreaths, even AH's sprawled right arm - all is copied from the past and used for propaganda reasons. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites downwardspiral 0 #50 April 12, 2008 Well I don't completely disagree and nor am I idealistic but I just think your perception of how the world works is a bit cynical in this regard....don't ya think?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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warpedskydiver 0 #33 April 9, 2008 Both your statement and mine are true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #34 April 9, 2008 Quote Quote http://patdollard.com/2008/04/pay-tribute-navy-seal-monsoor-receives-moh-posthumously-with-video/ Greater Love Has No Man Than To Lay Down His Life For His Friends (John 15:13) How very true. Did you ask his mother? I am a mother. I'd prefer my kid to be safe and alive without all those shining medals on his coffin and an old man telling lies. Ask your glorious leader in a week. He'll have forgotten who Mr. Monsoor actually was That does not mean I'm debasing that poor dead guy. His name simply is used for progaganda. Reminds me on events 60+ years ago in a country/countries far away from yours.... Does it really matter if the president forgets this man's name? There will be many who will remember him for years to come. Same as those who died before him in past wars. I remember Ralph Campion Bisz. So do many others. http://www.google.com/search?q=ralph+bisz&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DKUS I recieved his POW/MIA bracelet back in 1969 and held on to it until 1997. After learning that he died in Vietnam, I contacted his family and gave them the bracelet. I didn't know Ralph, personally but, I knew him just the same and will always remember him. It doesn't matter what a politician remembers but, it does matter that the common person remembers those who died fighting in a just or unjust war not of their making. I salute PO Monsoor the same as I salute Ltjg Ralph Campion Bisz."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #35 April 9, 2008 Well thanks for the response but you do realize who you are talking to: "some dipshits think that cartoon characters are real, and that their liberal, hand wringing, limp wristed, lisping, delusional, bomb throwing, and protesting, is in fact some sort of badge of honor, in their representation of themselves." WS Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #36 April 9, 2008 QuoteI just have a problem with elected officials stealing lime light at the expense of the fallen. I can absolutely see your point. I can. However, there are a couple of issues. 1) The POTUS is a military leader. He is the Commander in Chief. The top dog. Political? Yes. Military? THat, too. We don't see Bill Clinton giving them out anymore because he's not C-in-C anymore. 2) The POTUS is a figurehead. Admiral Mullen may be good within the service (though insulting to a Soldier to get pinned by a fucking squid) but as a figurehead it wouldn't be much. A Medal of Honor recipient gets public recognition. A public figure helps give that. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #37 April 9, 2008 Quote and personally, I think the POTUS who sent him there SHOULD be the one doing it. He should face it. I agree 100%. http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/gallery.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para_Frog 1 #38 April 9, 2008 Well...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers.- Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #39 April 9, 2008 QuoteWell...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers. Christel is not American. You're aren't fighting or serving in any way to preserve her freedoms or liberties. Take her opinion for what its worth - one voice of the collective world's opinion of the US. The more we trash it, the worse we appear. RIP Michael. Until we meet in Valhalla. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #40 April 9, 2008 I am glad I saw your post I was going to make a thread about the same story. It brought a tear to my eye just hearing what this young man did. I don’t care what you think about the war, and you all know how I feel about it. This man is a hero. He gave up his life for his buddies with out hesitation. Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people who scarifies every thing for people they care about. As for Bush using it for PR maybe but what do you expect the president to do? If he does nothing he is unpatriotic and you would find another way to criticize him. I felt his speech was sincere. You don’t have to be of hero caliber your self to appreciate people who are. I am no fan of Bush but I am a fan of reality and truth. Guys like M. Monsour are the real deal. I know I will remember him and will even take the time to pray for his family. It is the least I can do.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #41 April 9, 2008 >Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people >who scarifies every thing for people they care about. Agreed. He deserves our respect for his sacrifice to protect others. Let's hope that in the future such people aren't put in situations where they need to make such sacrifices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #42 April 9, 2008 Quote>Call it what you want to me there are no greater heroes then people >who scarifies every thing for people they care about. Agreed. He deserves our respect for his sacrifice to protect others. Let's hope that in the future such people aren't put in situations where they need to make such sacrifices. Because of the nature of human beings, I cannot forsee a world where such people and such sacrifices will cease to exist or be necessary. The true measure should not be that it happened, but that its value can not be questioned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #43 April 9, 2008 QuoteWell...I'm glad you're in the vast minority. I could spew about well, we fight for your right to... blah blah. The appropriate soldierly response. Truth is, I shit on you and everyone like you. I don't fight for you. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or shredded by a suicide bomber...I could give two shits. I do nothing for you or your rights by personal choice. I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Cheers. You have that about right. She is truly hateful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #44 April 10, 2008 >>Did you ask his mother? << I live in Coronado, CA. I have seen his mother in town on occassion. The last time was at a function here in town. She was constantly flanked by U.S. Navy SEALS and was treated like the hero that she is. She raised a selfless son who gave his life for his Team mates and his country. She is a proud woman and although shrouded in sorrow over the loss of her son, it is not my impression that she is disappointed one bit of the man that he was and his selfless sacrifice. But that is just my perception. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #45 April 10, 2008 >I mostly fight for the guy standing, or ducking, next to me. Like this fine individual did. He was honored appropriately for it. Your honor, duty and dedications to your fellow soldiers is no doubt great and respectable. You lay down your lives following orders. It is an awesome power and responsibility that your CO's and overseeing politicians have to make sure that your efforts are wisely put into practice. You protect us. But WE are supposed to protect you from being squandered on the front lines, since you as soldiers cannot protest the actions of politicians. We as activists failed. We Democrats failed,Clinton failed,Kerry failed. Blinded by the events of 911 and the subsequent testosterone rush to let the UN inspectors finish their job, To scrutinize and discredit the intelligence that Colin Powell reluctantly sold to the UN and the American public. To allow Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Wolfowitz to bully the American public into a patriotic frenzy- with Capitan Bush pounding on the drum. We could have nipped this in the bud but we didn't, now we see the result. it's a tough lesson. Water under the bridge, now we have what is essentially a desperate colony of the U.S.in the Middle east to support- on top of our own domestic problems. We now have no choice but to make it right. Hopefully our economy and infrastructure can deal with this mistake for the long haul. As i have always said this is going to be at least a 15 year effort.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #46 April 10, 2008 If your personal information is correct, I guess you are in a good position to be talking about glorious leaders, using people for propaganda, etc given what Germany brought forth to the world 60+ years ago. It's too bad the rest of the world didn't have the fortitude to take preemptive action against that "glorious leader"; it might have prevented the evils he and his "master race" perpetrated on much of the rest of the world. Instead, Europe was content to appease him time and again and the millions upon millions of dead in WWII was the result."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #47 April 10, 2008 >Because of the nature of human beings, I cannot forsee a world >where such people and such sacrifices will cease to exist or be necessary. I agree. But we can get closer - and I applaud the people who make the effort. It is far better to honor a good man's life than mourn a good man's death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #48 April 12, 2008 The President of the United States has presented the Medal of Honor in the name of Congress since the United States code of Law for the Medal of Honor was formed in 1862. I find it amusing someone can perceive 146 years of ceremony as modern day propoganda. PO2 Monsoor is a hero to some and an inspiration to many. May he rest in peace.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #49 April 12, 2008 Quote .... I find it amusing someone can perceive 146 years of ceremony as modern day propoganda. .... Really? Then you should take some closer looks at history. Any kind of "ceremonies" (such as coming Olympic games including the torch running all over the world) have been used for every kind of propaganda - if it's a marching song, laurel wreaths, even AH's sprawled right arm - all is copied from the past and used for propaganda reasons. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #50 April 12, 2008 Well I don't completely disagree and nor am I idealistic but I just think your perception of how the world works is a bit cynical in this regard....don't ya think?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
