Obama's Comments

[rushmc 23]

What do you all think?

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1116676020080412?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

and his defense...

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/11/obama-draws-fire-for-comments-on-small-town-america/


Edited to add:
Please, if someone has a better "his defense" post please put it up. There is not much out there (that I have had any luck finding) about him defending his remarks.
Thnx

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[airdvr 210]

Quote

What do you all think?

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1116676020080412?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

and his defense...

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/11/obama-draws-fire-for-comments-on-small-town-america/


Edited to add:
Please, if someone has a better "his defense" post please put it up. There is not much out there (that I have had any luck finding) about him defending his remarks.
Thnx

Hence the reason most politicians are liars. I think what he said was the truth, and he got crucified for it. edited to add: I'm not an Obama supporter.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

What do you all think?

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1116676020080412?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

and his defense...

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/11/obama-draws-fire-for-comments-on-small-town-america/


Edited to add:
Please, if someone has a better "his defense" post please put it up. There is not much out there (that I have had any luck finding) about him defending his remarks.
Thnx

Hence the reason most politicians are liars. I think what he said was the truth, and he got crucified for it. edited to add: I'm not an Obama supporter.

Really?
Care to explain?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[airdvr 210]

“You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not."

I don't know how old you are Rush but I'm old enough to remember a time when it was different in this country. Alot of people my age or older are pissed that we seem to have given it all away. And every candidate says he can change that. Here in the heartland we know its BS.

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

I'm not in the guns or religion segment but I am in the antipathy and anti-immigrant and anti-trade group. And it's not a blanket anger, I'm pissed that we gave away US history and culture so we could be politically correct. I'm pissed that we gave away our manufacturing advantage to foreign countries. I don't blame the government for this one as much as the labor unions who were so short sited and greedy they ignored the inevitable. I'm pissed that in NYC schools there are 120 languages spoken. I'm pissed that I have to tell the ATM, the recorded voice on the phone, and Haji the tech support guy in India, that I'd like to use english thank you very much. The guns and religion parts are also true to some extent. We're just not allowed to talk about it anymore. I could go on....

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[TankBuster 0]

CMon dude! He was talking to a bunch of wealthy folks at a fundraiser. Those silly, frustrated poor people weren't supposed to hear his remarks. Damn right wing media.

It's an obamanation.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[danornan 79]

Quote

“You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not."

I don't know how old you are Rush but I'm old enough to remember a time when it was different in this country. Alot of people my age or older are pissed that we seem to have given it all away. And every candidate says he can change that. Here in the heartland we know its BS.

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

I'm not in the guns or religion segment but I am in the antipathy and anti-immigrant and anti-trade group. And it's not a blanket anger, I'm pissed that we gave away US history and culture so we could be politically correct. I'm pissed that we gave away our manufacturing advantage to foreign countries. I don't blame the government for this one as much as the labor unions who were so short sited and greedy they ignored the inevitable. I'm pissed that in NYC schools there are 120 languages spoken. I'm pissed that I have to tell the ATM, the recorded voice on the phone, and Haji the tech support guy in India, that I'd like to use english thank you very much. The guns and religion parts are also true to some extent. We're just not allowed to talk about it anymore. I could go on....

One of the main problems is when the public votes for a politician who claims to be able to make it all right and solve all individual problems. The main focus of the government is to protect us, not coddle us from the cradle to the grave. When you vote for someone who says he will solve all of your personal problems, you are part of the problem.

Dano

[rushmc 23]

Quote

“You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not."

I don't know how old you are Rush but I'm old enough to remember a time when it was different in this country. Alot of people my age or older are pissed that we seem to have given it all away. And every candidate says he can change that. Here in the heartland we know its BS.

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

I'm not in the guns or religion segment but I am in the antipathy and anti-immigrant and anti-trade group. And it's not a blanket anger, I'm pissed that we gave away US history and culture so we could be politically correct. I'm pissed that we gave away our manufacturing advantage to foreign countries. I don't blame the government for this one as much as the labor unions who were so short sited and greedy they ignored the inevitable. I'm pissed that in NYC schools there are 120 languages spoken. I'm pissed that I have to tell the ATM, the recorded voice on the phone, and Haji the tech support guy in India, that I'd like to use english thank you very much. The guns and religion parts are also true to some extent. We're just not allowed to talk about it anymore. I could go on....

First off, I have to be close to the same age you are looking at your profile.
Second, I am from Iowa and I have been here nearly all my life.

Your first post got me to thinking and before I forget, thanks for the reply.

I too have seen much of what you post but I have a different perspective on it except for the fact the politions are to blame AFTER all of us for putting them back in office over and over again.

Obama's comment were insulting to me. Gun and religion? He is out of touch with this country as all of those who spend too much time in DC are.

Yes, jobs have gone but, many news ones have sprung up. Small business are the heart and soul of "most" of the heart land and they have learned to use the Walmarts and Sams Clubs purchasing power to help them (small businesses) survive.

As for "regenerating" anything? Well IMO that can not and will not ever come from government. It was a different country. There are things I miss and things I for one am glad are gone.

I am not aint trade but I am anti gov regulated trade. I am not anti immigrant but I am it has to be done leagally and for christ sakes secure the border. Immigrants either become part of a countries culter or, that country will be destroyed.

In a nut shell, Obama is an eletist arrogant biggoted ass. And he proved it in that speach

Thanks again for your reply

Eddited to add: The PC crowd is as much a danger to this country as immigration, most likely more so

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

CMon dude! He was talking to a bunch of wealthy folks at a fundraiser. Those silly, frustrated poor people weren't supposed to hear his remarks. Damn right wing media.

It's an obamanation.

Or is the Huffington Post right wing?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

“You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not."

I don't know how old you are Rush but I'm old enough to remember a time when it was different in this country. Alot of people my age or older are pissed that we seem to have given it all away. And every candidate says he can change that. Here in the heartland we know its BS.

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

I'm not in the guns or religion segment but I am in the antipathy and anti-immigrant and anti-trade group. And it's not a blanket anger, I'm pissed that we gave away US history and culture so we could be politically correct. I'm pissed that we gave away our manufacturing advantage to foreign countries. I don't blame the government for this one as much as the labor unions who were so short sited and greedy they ignored the inevitable. I'm pissed that in NYC schools there are 120 languages spoken. I'm pissed that I have to tell the ATM, the recorded voice on the phone, and Haji the tech support guy in India, that I'd like to use english thank you very much. The guns and religion parts are also true to some extent. We're just not allowed to talk about it anymore. I could go on....

One of the main problems is when the public votes for a politician who claims to be able to make it all right and solve all individual problems. The main focus of the government is to protect us, not coddle us from the cradle to the grave. When you vote for someone who says he will solve all of your personal problems, you are part of the problem.

Well stated!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[airdvr 210]

Obama's comment were insulting to me. Gun and religion? He is out of touch with this country as all of those who spend too much time in DC are.

Ever been to Pennsylvania? ...or southern Ohio...West Virginia? I don't think he's far off the mark.

Yes, jobs have gone but, many news ones have sprung up. Small business are the heart and soul of "most" of the heart land and they have learned to use the Walmarts and Sams Clubs purchasing power to help them (small businesses) survive.

I'm also a small businessperson (is there anything else anymore?) But I don't make anything...I provide a service. What should I do when my clients can't afford the services I provide anymore?

There are things I miss and things I for one am glad are gone.

Details please

I am not aint trade but I am anti gov regulated trade. Is there any other kind? I am not anti immigrant but I am it has to be done leagally and for christ sakes secure the border. Immigrants either become part of a countries culter or, that country will be destroyed.

Welcome to Amerika, or should we say Los Estates Unis?

In a nut shell, Obama is an eletist arrogant biggoted ass. And he proved it in that speach

I'm not so sure about that. I'm not a supporter but I believe he spoke the truth and now he's getting hammered for it. Just like I would be if I said what I really wanted to say. I could be charge with a hate crime.

Thanks again for your reply YW

Eddited to add: The PC crowd is as much a danger to this country as immigration, most likely more so

Where do you think PC came from? Heaven forbid we insult anyone.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[peregrinerose 0]

Obama did tell the truth with his comments. It's not a pleasant truth, and one we'd all like to see be different, but that really is the reality. I spent most of my life in small town Pennsylvania in a blue collar family with blue collar friends, only the last few years I've been more upper middle class in income, but I still have the same friends and neighbors as I did before.

Latrobe, PA from 1982-1992, New Wilmington PA from 1992-1996, Phila from 1996-1999 (Ok, not small town, but I lived in a ghetto, and the sentiments were the same, just the people that held them were a different color), Elizabethtown from 1999-2007, Newport for the last month. So I've been in small towns in PA for 26 years all over the state. He's dead on the mark with his comments.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[BIGUN 1,326]

How is what he said any different than when McCain told the truth in Michigan - "The jobs aren't coming back" to those who wanted to hear something else. As one who lives in a piece of the "heartland," Obama told the truth, but he should have elaborated on anti-"illegal" immigrants, rather than just anti-immigrants cause that part just isn't true. Hillary subsequently states, "They need a president who stands up for them, who fights for them, who works hard for your futures, your jobs, your families." IMO, empty rhetoric and rainbow promises. What's her plan?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[kallend 2,030]

Quote

What do you all think?

TRUTH hurts.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Yet another case of a closely-watched candidate slipping up & speaking like a human instead of like a politician. & then his opponents jump on him for being un-PC.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

How is what he said any different than when McCain told the truth in Michigan - "The jobs aren't coming back" to those who wanted to hear something else.

To an extent, they are lucky that some of the jobs remain.

95% of the he textile industry in the Carolinas went overseas.

The tv, stereo, and radio industries went to Japan.

Medical learning is under-funded. We need more doctors, but will not train Americans because it is cheaper to import someone who is already a doctor.

Hillary is co-chair of the Senate Indian Caucus and accepts millions of dollars in campaign contributions. "I can certainly run for the Senate seat in Punjab and win easily..." (Just so you know which country she favors). So, there goes the entry level jobs.

If they removed the H1-B visa cap, the software industry would be gone.

If they removed the import quota on cars, there would be no cars built in the US. The jobs aren't coming back, they are barely here.

Quote

Hillary subsequently states, "They need a president who stands up for them, who fights for them, who works hard for your futures, your jobs, your families." IMO, empty rhetoric and rainbow promises. What's her plan?

Bill has an interest in an Indian billing processing company. Her plan is to sell what remains of her soul.

The American ideal is that if you get an education, live an honest life, and work hard - you will succeed.
Yet, our politicians are the ones cutting our throats.
They will not fund higher education for Americans.
They are trying to sell our jobs overseas.

That is certainly a reason to be bitter.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

Quote

CMon dude! He was talking to a bunch of wealthy folks at a fundraiser. Those silly, frustrated poor people weren't supposed to hear his remarks. Damn right wing media.

It's an obamanation.

Or is the Huffington Post right wing?

Well the Huffingtons are Republicans aren't they?

[billvon 3,008]

I think that at this point if he said that it was dark out at night, the Clinton/McCain campaigns would be all over him about his racial comments about what sort of people are out at night.

He's saying what he thinks. He took a lot of shit for condemning (but not disowning) a preacher at his church, and now he's going to take a lot of heat for pointing out the bitterness a lot of people have towards the changing economy in America. It would be a lot easier to just get a speechwriter to vet all his stuff to never offend anyone, but then we'd get exactly the same meaningless feel-good, offend no one, PC crap that we've been getting for the past nine months. (Past 20 years, actually.)

It's been backfiring on hia bit s opponents, though. The attacks on him for the Rev. Wright issue led him to write a speech that's been hailed as one of the most important speeches on race in america in a long time. And I hope that this latest round of attacks will lead to a similar discussion on the frustration in the US as americans see their jobs go overseas and their homes lost to the latest mortgage crisis.

But I fear that this instead will degenerate into yet another "why, oh why does Obama hate hardworking americans, the troops and children?" The formula is tried and true, and Hillary especially is a master at it. We'll see if people buy it yet again.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Yet another case of a closely-watched candidate slipping up & speaking like a human instead of like a politician. & then his opponents jump on him for being un-PC.

At the end of Animal House, when the bleachers are wrecked, tear gas fills the streets, rioter running everywhere...

Chip says, "Remain calm. All is well."

People like that. It gives them a sense of security.

It is very frightening for small children when their parents have problems that cannot be overcome.
Children depend on their parents to provide a safe environment.

Adults are uneasy when their politicians tell them that their jobs, and all that they have worked for, have gone away. Truth is painful. It is political suicide to say that.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

“You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not."

I don't know how old you are Rush but I'm old enough to remember a time when it was different in this country. Alot of people my age or older are pissed that we seem to have given it all away. And every candidate says he can change that. Here in the heartland we know its BS.

This point is spot-on in its context. I won't subscribe that we "gave it all away" per se, but our losses are now outweighing the short term gains we realized when we gave China favored-nation status, or NAFTA ratification, etc. However, in the process, we as Americans did not take to task to adapt to the changing market. Too many counted on their employer, or union, or were too complacent to face the new challenges.

Quote

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

I'm not in the guns or religion segment but I am in the antipathy and anti-immigrant and anti-trade group. And it's not a blanket anger, I'm pissed that we gave away US history and culture so we could be politically correct. I'm pissed that we gave away our manufacturing advantage to foreign countries. I don't blame the government for this one as much as the labor unions who were so short sited and greedy they ignored the inevitable. I'm pissed that in NYC schools there are 120 languages spoken. I'm pissed that I have to tell the ATM, the recorded voice on the phone, and Haji the tech support guy in India, that I'd like to use english thank you very much. The guns and religion parts are also true to some extent. We're just not allowed to talk about it anymore. I could go on....

Indeed. What's worse, is that those that come here, and choose not to assimilate are missing out on a really cool culture: positive, driven, a hand-up, and the American dream (not the "American-hand-out").

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[likearock 2]

The biggest problem as I see it is in conjunction with the Wright mess. How can Obama talk about white frustration leading them to "cling to guns and religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them", while at the same time not seeing that you can say much the same thing (except for the guns part) about the congregation at the Wright church? It's a double standard that I'm surprised the media hasn't picked up on.

This was a bad gaffe by Obama and it will continue to hurt him until he addresses it directly, probably with an apology.

[peregrinerose 0]

Quote

The biggest problem as I see it is in conjunction with the Wright mess. How can Obama talk about white frustration leading them to "cling to guns and religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them", while at the same time not seeing that you can say much the same thing (except for the guns part) about the congregation at the Wright church? It's a double standard that I'm surprised the media hasn't picked up on.

This was a bad gaffe by Obama and it will continue to hurt him until he addresses it directly, probably with an apology.

I agree that the same sentiments are as strong in black culture as white, I don't agree that Obama needs to apologize for a lecture given by someone else. I don't understand this pathology of crucifying a candidate for something that a friend, advisor, collegue, etc of theirs says. People are allowed to be different, disagree, and have friends that are different from them. They should be encouraged to have friends and advisors of all sorts of opinions, to keep them informed and balanced regarding the reality (good and bad) of what's out there in the world.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[likearock 2]

Quote

Quote

The biggest problem as I see it is in conjunction with the Wright mess. How can Obama talk about white frustration leading them to "cling to guns and religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them", while at the same time not seeing that you can say much the same thing (except for the guns part) about the congregation at the Wright church? It's a double standard that I'm surprised the media hasn't picked up on.

This was a bad gaffe by Obama and it will continue to hurt him until he addresses it directly, probably with an apology.

I agree that the same sentiments are as strong in black culture as white, I don't agree that Obama needs to apologize for a lecture given by someone else.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was talking about Obama apologizing for his own remarks, not Wright's. However, if he wants to talk about frustration leading to an anti-social mindset, he should be even-handed in who he singles out.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

I don't blame the government for this one as much as the labor unions who were so short sited and greedy they ignored the inevitable.

Why is it far easier for some to put the blame on the unions? Unions have constantly cut back over the years. Not sure if you ever worked on a factory floor but, it is hard back breaking repetitive work that deserves a living wage and some level of healthcare.
Not all union jobs pay above $20.00 per hour. The second largest employer (The VA is the largest) in Mount Vernon, Mo., Reyco Granning (http://transport.tuthill.com/About/about_History.cfm) is gearing up to move all of it's work to China. They have been in this area since 1973. They are a union plant. Teamsters. Top pay in the factory is around $11.00 per hour and very little for benefits. A friend of mine is an engineer in the factory. He stopped by yesterday and complained of how the company puts all of the blame on the union workers for all of the loss over the last few years but, he tells me, the blame lies soley on the company itself. The company has refused to replace worn equipment. Material loss is high due to faulty machines that are jury rigged to run. He tells me that it is obvious that the company wants failure in the facility so that it can justify closing and sending the entire operation overseas. Once it closes, what is to come of the people who have given a good number of years of their life to the company? It is not like there are jobs all over this part of the state. Fact is, most jobs in the Ozarks are extremely low paying with little or no benefits. These jobs force people to become dependant on assistance from the state to make ends meet (food stamps, healthcare, housing...).
It is sad to blame those on the bottom for the wrongs of those at the top. When I worked at Hussmann Refrigeration, we took a lot of cuts that were to ensure us that we would have jobs. In the end Ingersol - Rand (whom owns Hussmann) went ahead and layed off the majority of us anyway and sent the jobs to Mexico. Talk about disappointment. Nothing sucks like being handed a pink slip after being told that your job is safe.
What to do? Hmmm, after bouncing around and not getting anywhere with old skills, I am going back to school. Vocational Rehab. I have decided on autobody at the Ozark Techincal College. I was looking at graphics design but, that is a job that can be easily sent overseas. Can't send dented fenders to India for repair. I recommend that everyone who has lost their job to jump on the benefit wagon and use YOUR tax dollars to retrain. Better that the state spends my taxes on retraining me than to continue paying out to support me on disability. At 48 years old, what else can I do?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[kelpdiver 2]

Open question to all:

Did this remark really bother anything that didn't already have zero intention of voting for him? I wonder how many people fall outside the two camps:

1) voting McCain all the way, see these remarks as proof this guy is a loon

2) voting Obama over the retreads, couldn't give a shit about the remark.

---
The funniest part is the reaction from the Clinton camp that this is proof that she will better represent America. Even before her husband made 80M on the retirement circuit, she was hardly the working class rep, dating back to the cookies remark in 1992.

I don't see any votes changing as a result.

[likearock 2]

Quote

Open question to all:

Did this remark really bother anything that didn't already have zero intention of voting for him? I wonder how many people fall outside the two camps:

1) voting McCain all the way, see these remarks as proof this guy is a loon

2) voting Obama over the retreads, couldn't give a shit about the remark.

---
The funniest part is the reaction from the Clinton camp that this is proof that she will better represent America. Even before her husband made 80M on the retirement circuit, she was hardly the working class rep, dating back to the cookies remark in 1992.

I don't see any votes changing as a result.

Yes, it bothers me and up to now he's been my first choice. I definitely would not see myself in either of your two groups. Do you?