An Atheist Speaks

[jakee 1,500]

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I have a parallel theory for making payments to the Church (God)..... Every Sunday I go out into the garden and throw loads of money up into the air.... Every penny God catches, he can keep

Meh, still too much effort. If he really wants it I'm sure he could just take my credit card number. Even Mastercard identity protection shouldn't be too much of a problem for the master of the universe.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,500]

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Either way, though, the individual experience is what it is. If you CAN explain what it is and where it comes from, then that's GREAT. To be able to explain human experience biologically doesn't make it more or less real.

I never even suggested that the human condition isn't real, or that we don't experience consciousness. What you've just said echoes a tactic that religious people often use, stating that explaining our world using science makes it less amazing, or that admitting that we really are just biological creatures makes us less special. It doesn't. Personally I think it's even more amazing, even more incredible to realise that all we are, all we think and feel comes fro a spongy grey blob on top of our shoulders.

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Personally, I don't think you can equate spirituality with emotion and consciousness because there's another piece or two in there.

That's what I've been saying to Speedracer, though he chooses not to understand.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Lindsey 0]

What you've just said echoes a tactic that religious people often use, stating that explaining our world using science makes it less amazing, or that admitting that we really are just biological creatures makes us less special.

What I said is that whether or not you can explain it doesn't change a person's experience. You, or maybe it was someone else, said that spirituality doesn't exist--that it's just emotion and consciousness. I think there's more to it that we can't necessarily explain by looking at the human brain. We certainly can't explain it with our current understanding. We can't even explain the whole of emotion and consciousness through biology and physiology right now, so certainly not spirituality. Maybe someday we WILL be able to. Wouldn't suggest that we couldn't. BUT whether it's explained or not doesn't make spirituality less real. If we come to explain our ability to have a spiritual connection through biology/physiology, then GREAT! Doesn't take anything away from people's experience, imho.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[tkhayes 348]

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It's not so much that I disagree with his basic concepts, but that he seems to take some sort of joy in taunting the Christians; which is just being an asshole if you ask me.

It would be OK to 'taunt' the Nazis, it would be OK to 'taunt' witchcraft and voodoo, it would be OK to 'taunt' many things that are readily NOT accepted in normal everyday life.

If my belief structure dictates that there is no God, then I have every right to taunt those who believe in it - it is a free country. Not to mention the evils that religion has perpetrated on the world over the centuries, which even further remove any shred of belief in it being 'good' for me.

He's not an asshole, just a guy with an opinion, you can choose to watch or ignore it. You can also choose to call him an asshole I guess......

[Vallerina 2]

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And when you listen to the music of say, Pink Floyd , you might get one feeling.

And when you listen to the music of Britney Spears you might get a very different feeling.

With enough knowledge of the brain you could map out the different neural pathways of those two different feelings. But having that data written out and actually, PERSONALLY EXPERIENCING those feelings are two different things. the one is quantifiable and scientifically provable. the other is not proven, it is simply lived.

Often times when I dream, I have very strong feelings whether it's fear from someone trying to stab me or happiness over winning a million dollars. A lot of times when I wake up, I'll still feel those things and it takes me a second or two to realize it was just a dream. The feelings are intense yet based on nothing but my brain dreaming. Feelings aren't exactly proof of something outside of ourselves.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[jakee 1,500]

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BUT whether it's explained or not doesn't make spirituality less real.

Real in the sense that a dream is real. Yes, you may actually experience something, but nothing has caused that experience except you.

Real in the sense that a religious person would mean, as in actually connecting with something, no. Not real.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,028]

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I have a parallel theory for making payments to the Church (God)..... Every Sunday I go out into the garden and throw loads of money up into the air.... Every penny God catches, he can keep

Meh, still too much effort. If he really wants it I'm sure he could just take my credit card number. Even Mastercard identity protection shouldn't be too much of a problem for the master of the universe.

Why would an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent invisible supernatural being want money anyway? Why would such a being care if anyone worshipped her? It all defies the most basic logic.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

£$
"Do you believe in God?
cos that's what I'm selling
and if you wanna go to heaven
I'll see you right"
$£

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[dannydan 5]

ahhhh But this is where ones FAITH comes in!

Prayer (that personel relationship/conversation) with the one you pray too.

IF.... if in FACT there is a CREATOR, the ALL KNOWING, the ALMIGHTY, then the creator knows ALL and everything right, including the number of hairs on ones head, our name before we were BORN? Then the creator KNOWS what is in our HEART, mind and soul....

There will no wrong choice except for those whom CHOOSE to look the other direction....

[jakee 1,500]

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ahhhh But this is where ones FAITH comes in!

You mean guessing, and then hoping you've got the right answer?

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IF.... if in FACT there is a CREATOR, the ALL KNOWING, the ALMIGHTY,

Ok, if there is, why does he give a fuck if I think he's there or not?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[dannydan 5]

I dont equate faith and guessing ANYMORE!

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Ok, if there is, why does he give a fuck if I think he's there or not?

As far as I can tell, i am being given TWO choices for my so called afterlife....

Heaven or Hell!

From what I read in scripture about each place, I choose Heaven! Because he gives a "fuck" about me as one of His children in that He already knows what each place is like....

Sorta like being at home on our fine leather couches watching a 135" bigscreen with tequila/beer and our favorite Doritos or........

......... being in JAIL!

[jakee 1,500]

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Because he gives a "fuck" about me as one of His children...

Then why wouldn't he be nice to you regardless of whether or not you are convinced by his book?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,028]

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I dont equate faith and guessing ANYMORE!

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Ok, if there is, why does he give a fuck if I think he's there or not?

As far as I can tell, i am being given TWO choices for my so called afterlife....

Heaven or Hell!

From what I read in scripture about each place, I choose Heaven! Because he gives a "fuck" about me as one of His children in that He already knows what each place is like....

Sorta like being at home on our fine leather couches watching a 135" bigscreen with tequila/beer and our favorite Doritos or........

......... being in JAIL!

But what if a million Hindus got it right, and the Christians didn't? You bet on the wrong horse god.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tkhayes 348]

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We don't have to prove negatives. Your beliefs are totally devoid of all objective, testable evidence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As are yours, when it comes to the issues that really matter.

As are yours, when it comes to the issues that really matter.....to you.

The matters you speak of have no meaning to us 'atheists'. We believe in provable scientific processes; a repeatable and objective look at life and the universe.

Not 'magic'.

[dannydan 5]

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Then why wouldn't he be nice to you regardless of whether or not you are convinced by his book?

If I continue to keep bailing one of my children out of jail for breaking laws, then WHAT is it that I am teaching that child?

If we continue to act, speak out that He does not EXSIST, then how is He suppose to be a Father to us, as a teacher, a guide in our lives.

How can HE be "nice" to me if I or others do not or will not believe in He?

[dannydan 5]

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But what if a million Hindus got it right, and the Christians didn't? You bet on the wrong horse god.

For one it is not about me betting wether or not HE (God) exsists Kal... Like I previously said, IF God is real, which i believe He IS, then He already knows that I am a child seaking His own heart! He already knows that in my heart mind and soul that I believe in Him and that He is real...

You want to keep gambling with your ETERNAL life, I can't stop ya!

About like the tatoo thread, we all have our OPINIONS about them, which one are we going to do or not even consider it...

[kallend 2,028]

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But what if a million Hindus got it right, and the Christians didn't? You bet on the wrong horse god.

For one it is not about me betting wether or not HE (God) exsists Kal... Like I previously said, IF God is real, which i believe He IS, then He already knows that I am a child seaking His own heart! He already knows that in my heart mind and soul that I believe in Him and that He is real...

You want to keep gambling with your ETERNAL life, I can't stop ya!

=...

You are gambling just as much as I, since the god you chose may not be the correct one. Maybe you've really pissed off Shiva, Vishnu, or Freya.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,500]

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If I continue to keep bailing one of my children out of jail for breaking laws, then WHAT is it that I am teaching that child?

How can HE be "nice" to me if I or others do not or will not believe in He?

If God was real, I'd find out after I died. Why would he care at all if I think he exists while I'm alive? Am I hurting him in some way?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SpeedRacer 1]

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And when you listen to the music of say, Pink Floyd , you might get one feeling.

And when you listen to the music of Britney Spears you might get a very different feeling.

With enough knowledge of the brain you could map out the different neural pathways of those two different feelings. But having that data written out and actually, PERSONALLY EXPERIENCING those feelings are two different things. the one is quantifiable and scientifically provable. the other is not proven, it is simply lived.

Often times when I dream, I have very strong feelings whether it's fear from someone trying to stab me or happiness over winning a million dollars. A lot of times when I wake up, I'll still feel those things and it takes me a second or two to realize it was just a dream. The feelings are intense yet based on nothing but my brain dreaming. Feelings aren't exactly proof of something outside of ourselves.

I never said it was proof.
It isn't my goal in this thread to make a case for the existence of God.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Lindsey 0]

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BUT whether it's explained or not doesn't make spirituality less real.

Real in the sense that a dream is real. Yes, you may actually experience something, but nothing has caused that experience except you.

Real in the sense that a religious person would mean, as in actually connecting with something, no. Not real.

Since the subjective experience is all that matters, then it's as real as it is to the individual. Doesn't have to be tangible. Something out there doesn't have to be proven in order for an individual's experience to be valid and real. A person connects with something if he or she experiences a connection. There's nothing to prove or disprove. A person's spiritual life is his own.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[maadmax 0]

As are yours, when it comes to the issues that really matter.

As are yours, when it comes to the issues that really matter.....to you.

The matters you speak of have no meaning to us 'atheists'. We believe in provable scientific processes; a repeatable and objective look at life and the universe.

Not 'magic'.

[maadmax 0]

If God was real, I'd find out after I died. Why would he care at all if I think he exists while I'm alive? Am I hurting him in some way?***

Yes, Your spirit was created with a free will to commune with God.


_______________________________

[gjhdiver 0]

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I believe that there are things that science, as we think we know it, can't explain.

Add the word "yet" and we've found a point to agree on.

[gjhdiver 0]

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While I am not a very good/faithful Christian, my beliefs in God, Jesus and the Holy spirit has not hurt anyone.

Yours may not have, but your bretheren have killed millions in the name of the same superstition.

It's bullshit. It always has been, and always will be. If you want to look for a god, look within yourself. If you believe in an all seeing god, then I'd like to sell you defense for unicorns that uses a bag of magical shreiking peanuts.

I live my life by the pagan (or Wiccan) rede. It goes, and I quote....

"Be it harm none, do what thy wilt shalt be the whole law"

One sentence. Beats the fuck out of every other religious text ever written IMHO.

[jakee 1,500]

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If God was real, I'd find out after I died. Why would he care at all if I think he exists while I'm alive? Am I hurting him in some way?***

Yes, Your spirit was created with a free will to commune with God.

What?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?