An Atheist Speaks

[jcd11235 0]

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All the evidence you need for his existence is in logic.

Please present said logic.

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[beowulf 1]

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If you go into court with a written document that has not been signed by any witnesses or is even the original document in the original language and claim it as an eye witness testimony the judge will not accept it.
For a judge to accept an eye witness testimony the eye witness needs to be present for cross examination. Kind of hard to do when the "eye witness" is dead.

Fair enough in that regard, but what about outside a court system? That's a pretty narrow perspective. You're view is only derived from a chosen political theory on how to be fair in society. I'm wondering about a larger scale...

Outside the court system you can believe anything you want and call anything you want evidence. But if you want to convince someone
that what you think is true then you need to be able to provide evidence and logic as to why you think the way you think that can be tested. If you can't then ____.

[Mockingbird 0]

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The universe is, by its very nature, eternal.

"Prove it."

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[billvon 3,009]

>sounds pretty far-fetched

Hello! They were EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS! You have NO reason not to believe what those witnesses wrote down for us.

[Mockingbird 0]

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All the evidence you need for his existence is in logic.

Please present said logic.

I've given it; you rejected it. Why do you insist on arguing about it?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[jcd11235 0]

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The universe is, by its very nature, eternal.

"Prove it."

Eternal means to exist independently of time.

Time exists within the universe, not the other way around.

The universe is eternal.

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[jcd11235 0]

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All the evidence you need for his existence is in logic.

Please present said logic.

I've given it; you rejected it. Why do you insist on arguing about it?

I rejected it because you did not reach a logical conclusion.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[beowulf 1]

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>sounds pretty far-fetched

Hello! They were EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS! You have NO reason not to believe what those witnesses wrote down for us.

BillVon, Why would they lie about something like this???

[poe62 0]

Point taken.
Why is evidence and logic the acceptable way to convince someone something is true? Isn't it really just a way grasp some kind of understanding of our world, existence, etc? How can that be your basis on "proof" ??? Logic is just a human coping mechanism that can be just as flawed and circular as anything else...

~Nikki
http://www.facebook.com/poe62

Irgity Dirgity

[beowulf 1]

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Point taken.
Why is evidence and logic the acceptable way to convince someone something is true? Isn't it really just a way grasp some kind of understanding of our world, existence, etc? How can that be your basis on "proof" ??? Logic is just a human coping mechanism that can be just as flawed and circular as anything else...

What other way is there? If you don't use logic and evidence then what do you use? Feelings are much more unreliable.

[beowulf 1]

If I told you you could jump out of an airplane and live, but never demonstrated it to you and you had never seen or heard of anyone ever doing so. Wouldn't you be skeptical? It would be tough to risk your life on just my word. Wouldn't you want more then that before jumping?

[kallend 2,032]

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Matter cannot be eternal because of entropy.

Please, please, for the love of God, stop getting your science from creationist websites.

Haven't been to any creationist websites; sorry to disappoint. I know what entropy means and implies for the universe.

Apparently NOT.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[poe62 0]

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What other way is there? If you don't use logic and evidence then what do you use? Feelings are much more unreliable.

mmm...I don't know the answer to that. I don't know the answer to most things...

~Nikki
http://www.facebook.com/poe62

Irgity Dirgity

[beowulf 1]

Neither do I, that's why it's important to ask questions and not just take things on faith.

[georgerussia 0]

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In what specific way do you think Christians are claiming that God wants all of us to behave?

I wonder that you, as Christian supporter, do not know that. Does your minister tell you that your God wants everyone to be rescued through divine salvation, and there are things that one should do (and other things the one should not do)?

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All the evidence you need for his existence is in logic. People in denial can't see the logic. All the evidence you need to understand that Christ is the son of God is his resurrection.

If there was really evidence that Christ did resurrect, you wouldn't need any further evidence, not to say logic. The problem is there is no such evidence. The closest thing you have is the second (at least) hand hearsay. You have exactly the same evidence to prove the existence of Zeus and Athena. In fact my kids have much more evidence that Santa Claus exists - they personally witnessed the gifts left by Him - than you have for Jesus resurrection.

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People who have made the choice not to follow him have talked themselves out of believing the evidence.

Could you please make it clear whether you're talking about /scientic/ evidence or you're talking about beliefs? The real evidence is there, and it does not require any beliefs - you do not need to believe into evaporation, inertia or force of gravity. If your "evidence" requires belief - and, in fact, is based on those beliefs - it's not an evidence.

And those who already believe do not need any evidence either.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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If they say that they see a flower as evidence of God, then that is accurate according to the dictionary definition of "evidence." ("A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment." or "Something indicative; an outward sign.")

But then I can say that seeing a flower as evidence of NO God is also accurate according to dictionary definition of "evidence."

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To me, it might not be evidence of God, but to them it is, because it helped them come to the conclusion that there is a God.

That's why not all evidence is considered acceptable.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Royd 0]

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It is apparent that every Christian that has argued the existence of God here on this forum is severely lacking in critical thinking skills. I really don't understand why they insist on claiming evidence that does not actually qualify as evidence. A good critical thinking tool is asking at least 5 questions about how you "know" something is true. If you can not answer those questions then you really don't know it to 100% true. Always question your source of information. This is what science is all about. Faith is not a part of science and never has been or ever will be.

You're right. Every morning, I have to have someone pull me out of bed and wipe the drool off my chin. Sometimes, when I go to pour my coffee, it's nothing but cold water, because I forget to grind the coffee or turn on the heat.
Using your mighty critical thinking skills, and the evolutionary theory, is there life in other solar systems?
I don't want to hear, "I don't know." No waffling. What does your critical thinking tell you. It's either yes or no.
If the answer is yes, then the possibility of something so superior to our physical and intellectual being is very possible.
If you say no, then you are no different than the creationists that you despise.

[JackC 0]

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To me, it might not be evidence of God, but to them it is, because it helped them come to the conclusion that there is a God.

When using the word "evidence" in a non-scientific context, it does not necessarily imply something that has to be provable or even testable.

That's a pretty loose definition of evidence. By that token, tomatos are evidence of Ragu sauce.

There is no logic or evidence in saying "look at that tree, isn't it pretty; therefore god exists".

[JackC 0]

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Matter cannot be eternal because of entropy.

Please, please, for the love of God, stop getting your science from creationist websites.

Haven't been to any creationist websites; sorry to disappoint. I know what entropy means and implies for the universe.

Read me

[Shotgun 1]

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But then I can say that seeing a flower as evidence of NO God is also accurate according to dictionary definition of "evidence."

Yes, you can. And that would be an accurate use of the word. It may be evidence to you that there is no God, whether anyone else agrees with you or not.

I could say that I saw someone with a smile on his face, and that was evidence that he was happy. And it would be reasonable evidence in my mind. But someone else who may know that the guy just experienced some horrible tragedy - that person may see the guy's smile as evidence that he is putting on a facade.

We both see the smile as evidence of something, but all that means is that we have come to a conclusion based on what we saw; it does not mean that either of our conclusions are correct.

[billvon 3,009]

One of my favorite quotes from a fundamentalist website concerning entropy:

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One of the most basic laws in the universe is the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This states that as time goes by, entropy in an environment will increase. Evolution argues differently against a law that is accepted EVERYWHERE BY EVERYONE. Evolution says that we started out simple, and over time became more complex. That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it.
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(And just in case - no, I am not suggesting anyone here thinks this.)

[Shotgun 1]

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That's a pretty loose definition of evidence.

I didn't write the definition. And it's similar to a lot of words in that it has more than one meaning.

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There is no logic or evidence in saying "look at that tree, isn't it pretty; therefore god exists".

I agree. I don't see it as evidence of god, but others might.

[beowulf 1]

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giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy

Have scientists found the source of energy yet??

[beowulf 1]

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It is apparent that every Christian that has argued the existence of God here on this forum is severely lacking in critical thinking skills. I really don't understand why they insist on claiming evidence that does not actually qualify as evidence. A good critical thinking tool is asking at least 5 questions about how you "know" something is true. If you can not answer those questions then you really don't know it to 100% true. Always question your source of information. This is what science is all about. Faith is not a part of science and never has been or ever will be.

You're right. Every morning, I have to have someone pull me out of bed and wipe the drool off my chin. Sometimes, when I go to pour my coffee, it's nothing but cold water, because I forget to grind the coffee or turn on the heat.
Using your mighty critical thinking skills, and the evolutionary theory, is there life in other solar systems?
I don't want to hear, "I don't know." No waffling. What does your critical thinking tell you. It's either yes or no.
If the answer is yes, then the possibility of something so superior to our physical and intellectual being is very possible.
If you say no, then you are no different than the creationists that you despise.

I don't know if there is life on other planets. It is possible that there is life on other planets. I think there is probably life on other planets. You can call that waffling if you want. Yes it is possible that there are life forms out there superior to humans just like it's possible that unicorns exist. We don't have any evidence of either. You are not helping your cause with stupid questions like this one.

[Shotgun 1]

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Have scientists found the source of energy yet??

Well, I'm sure it can't be that big yellow thing in the sky. That thing uses all of its energy to keep circling around the Earth, so I doubt it has any extra energy to send our way.