Frustrated drivers are trying to sell their gas guzzlers.

[LongWayToFall 0]

When I heard 156mpg, it was on another web site, but I would assume the manufacturer's would be fairly accurate. The pricing was based on the euro, I guess it will cost allot to get them shipped over as well. Hope they have enough trunk space for 2 rigs, what a way to cruise to a far off dz!

I can only imagine when electric cars are using large Li-pos, there will be some insanely fast cars. The Tesla car is using small D battery size cells, a bunch of them, to get the needed discharge rate. These new batteries should blow them out of the water. Glad to here they are getting affordable! Hope they have longer life though, the RC ones are only good for about 100 charge/discharges. They also have a bad habit of swelling up and exploding

[Gawain 0]

This isn't necessarily the best option (to sell), unless the seller is looking to change to a 4 cylinder Accord, Camry or Prius.

A driver of a Ford F-150, with a combined rating of about 15 MPG, spends about $4200/year (at 1500 miles per month, 30 gal. tank, @3.50/gal).

However, if they are able to shave 300 miles per month off their usage, they'll consume 20 fewer gallons per month (only 240 per year), which saves the driver about $1000 per year ($3360/year).

If the owner dumps his truck at a loss, and buys a Toyota Camry 4-cyl, their consumption is reduced, but the reduction in consumption does not justify the cost of replacing the vehicle, versus changing driving habits.

I drive a Toyota RAV4 with a potent V6. I average about 24MPG in mixed driving. If I don't change driving habits/distances, I'd have to change to a hybrid to see any meaningful reduction in consumption or cost on an annual basis -- and even then the cost justification is hard to make work.

I'm better off with my current solution -- which is driving a little more prudently on my daily commute.

If the drivers of gas guzzlers can find a way to reduce consumption by just 20 gallons per month, multiply by a very conservative estimate of 2M such vehicles on the road now, that reduces demand by 40M gallons per month or 480M gal per year....equating to about $1.7B per year.

The real impact would be much greater, since the numbers I cited are way low.

By changing driving habits, reduce demand by:
-- 480,000,000 gallons per year

Think that might make a difference?

...and the government didn't need to do a thing. The market corrects, the dollar strengthens, debts reduce through less spending...

[idrankwhat 0]

I agree pretty much with all that you wrote, except the implication that the market will sort it out. When the government gets involved as they did with regard to California's zero emission mandate, and the auto manufacturers snatch up all the leased vehicles and won't let people buy them at premium prices, then those are not market forces making the decision.
In my opinion the next President should advocate for a national zero emission mandate. If California can get most of the car manufacturers to build ZE vehicles by demanding 3% in 8 years, then think of what a national mandate could acheive.

[normiss 800]

1.5 liter Scion xB (Toyota)
32-36 mpg very peppy for a tiny 4-banger
huge room inside - enough to transport 5 jumpers with full gear anywhere, comfortably...
and I still ride the motorcycle more often anyway.
I'd switch to a bicycle if I lived closer and we had showers at work.
I've always been a hardcore motor-head, but damn!
I'm not going to support the gas companies profits any more than I have to.
It's caused me to change the way I think of everything I do involving gas.

[Gawain 0]

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I'm not going to support the gas companies profits any more than I have to.
It's caused me to change the way I think of everything I do involving gas.

ExxonMobil's profit margin is 7% overall.

Microsoft's is about 23%.

You can poo-poo the big companies all you want. That is not the problem with high gas prices right now. It is the weak dollar on the market coupled with speculation. Nothing more.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[rehmwa 2]

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ExxonMobil's profit margin is 7% overall.

It is the weak dollar on the market coupled with speculation. Nothing more.

agree with the market and the speculation (market again) comment, but not the "Nothing more"

there's more:

If 7 cents on every dollar of gas is oil company profit, then how many cents on each dollar is total taxes?

I heard on the radio that the tax rollup from the last few (four?) decades for the gas industry was $1.3 BILLION while the oil industry profits was about half that. We should at least be after the government, in addition and as much as, the corporate witch hunt already in place.

I put the reference site in the attachment

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

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I'm not going to support the gas companies profits any more than I have to.
It's caused me to change the way I think of everything I do involving gas.

ExxonMobil's profit margin is 7% overall.

That's what it looks like when you bury your profits overseas. Oil companies do things like request that China tax them so that their tax liability over here is lower. I believe that the money that Exxon pays to China goes to improve Exxon's facilities in China, not into any sort of a general fund.

[AWL71 0]

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I'm not going to support the gas companies profits any more than I have to.
It's caused me to change the way I think of everything I do involving gas.

ExxonMobil's profit margin is 7% overall.

Microsoft's is about 23%.

You can poo-poo the big companies all you want. That is not the problem with high gas prices right now. It is the weak dollar on the market coupled with speculation. Nothing more.

Good point.

I can't understand why people bitch and moan when some company posts huge profit numbers. It is called capitalism and that is what made America successful. Other nations like India and China have become successful following our capitalist ways. Why is it that some Americans are giving up on capitalism? Because its not fair????

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[rehmwa 2]

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That's what it looks like when you bury your profits overseas. Oil companies do things like request that China tax them so that their tax liability over here is lower. I believe that the money that Exxon pays to China goes to improve Exxon's facilities in China, not into any sort of a general fund.

Sounds like China knows how to attract big business

Lots of countries don't tax companies, but have employment agreements instead - they collect taxes from payroll and expect the companies to provide jobs

lots of out of box thinking all over the world seems to trump the 'treat employers like evil bad guys and decide whether to tax and regulate them out of the country or subsidize them completely' model of the US and state govs.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AWL71 0]

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That's what it looks like when you bury your profits overseas. Oil companies do things like request that China tax them so that their tax liability over here is lower. I believe that the money that Exxon pays to China goes to improve Exxon's facilities in China, not into any sort of a general fund.

Sounds like China knows how to attract big business

Lots of countries don't tax companies, but have employment agreements instead - they collect taxes from payroll and expect the companies to provide jobs

lots of out of box thinking all over the world seems to trump the 'treat employers like evil bad guys and decide whether to tax and regulate them out of the country or subsidize them completely' model of the US and state govs.

Out of the box thinking!? We can't have that. Our worthless government has to tax big business so they (politicians) can make a living off someone else's hard work. And don't forget feelgood social spending for the bums and leeches of society.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[normiss 800]

Not entirely accurate...the next county over from me in central Florida adds .15 cents per gallon tax.
I don't buy gas there!

A lot of local taxes can and are applied to the cost.
Add the .05 cents per gallon highway tax...11.6 cents per gallon sales tax......022 cents per gallon environmental tax... and .184 cents federal excise tax...approximately .62 cents per gallon in taxes on average - Florida is around .77 cents per gallon in taxes, depending on county and city taxes added could be a few more.
THEN you take their profit off....
weak dollar or not, we're getting screwed in my opinion.

[billvon 2,991]

>Sounds like China knows how to attract big business . . .

And will continue to do so, at least until the people of China get more of a voice in government. One of the big reasons China is so popular with companies is lack of environmental regulation.

[billvon 2,991]

>If 7 cents on every dollar of gas is oil company profit, then how
>many cents on each dollar is total taxes?

Around here? About 4 cents state, 4.5 cents federal per dollar. Plus any local sales tax. (It's .25 cents per dollar higher here for example.)

[idrankwhat 0]

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Sounds like China knows how to attract big business

Lots of countries don't tax companies, but have employment agreements instead - they collect taxes from payroll and expect the companies to provide jobs

lots of out of box thinking all over the world seems to trump the 'treat employers like evil bad guys and decide whether to tax and regulate them out of the country or subsidize them completely' model of the US and state govs.

You and AWL71 are still thinking in idealized capitalism terms. When you have a marriage of government and big business you get something else entirely. What gives you the impression that the oil companies don't like the arrangement? The get to keep their profits overseas, get a dollar for dollar tax credit for the money that they give China, have their facilities improved, borrow money for those improvements from US banks, write off the interest that they pay further reducing their liability and then take additional direct subsidies from the taxpayer to expand their business. In addition they have over 500 elected federal officials and their employees making sure that they have the resources that they need to exploit oil rich countries including the largest military in the world to use as a hammer. And the best part of all is that they have unfettered dominance over the lifestyle of the most voracious consumers on the planet.

[rehmwa 2]

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What gives you the impression that the oil companies don't like the arrangement?

I think they do like it.

it's a comment on the ways the various governments attract business. nothing to do with the oil companies, they will do business with the most agreeable partner. (almost like an idealized capitalists scenario, huh?)

think more on the lines that the US government is not evolving in their attitude for business and the new young economic powerhouse wannabes are coming up with new ideas that should be examined for applicability here - you guys need to be a little liberal and not just assume we are always right

In that vein, I don't even know how to address BVs post that assumes that the 'voice of the people' would automatically push governments into an anti employer stance. sometimes, the 'voice of the people' is shouting for jobs

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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You and AWL71

though AWL71's comments are fun in their posed cynicism, I'm more aligned with normiss's last comment - the companies MAY be screwing us but at least we get a product out of it at a price we are still willing to pay, but the governments at all levels are definitely screwing us and the companies simultaneously and we get nothing out of that.

AWL71's note is off for me in that there should be some gov involvement, but I think it should be in terms of allowing corporate opportunity, rather than handcuffs. We are swung clear around compared to all the countries getting the big business. Consideration that we've gone too far isn't out of line.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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>If 7 cents on every dollar of gas is oil company profit, then how
>many cents on each dollar is total taxes?

Around here? About 4 cents state, 4.5 cents federal per dollar. Plus any local sales tax. (It's .25 cents per dollar higher here for example.)

I doubt you have all the taxes accounted for, but that'll do - even with this, the government is taking even more than the provider is - but who do the legislators attack?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 800]

here's one site keeping track of taxes on gas by state

[AWL71 0]

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You and AWL71

though AWL71's comments are fun in their posed cynicism, I'm more aligned with normiss's last comment - the companies MAY be screwing us but at least we get a product out of it at a price we are still willing to pay, but the governments at all levels are definitely screwing us and the companies simultaneously and we get nothing out of that.

AWL71's note is off for me in that there should be some gov involvement, but I think it should be in terms of allowing corporate opportunity, rather than handcuffs. We are swung clear around compared to all the countries getting the big business. Consideration that we've gone too far isn't out of line.

Our government needs to do something about all of our jobs going overseas. They need to lower the tax burden on big business and in return we have more Americans with jobs and instead of talking to Punjab when my computer crashes I can talk to Jane in Houston, TX.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[rehmwa 2]

Punjab knows more about computers than Jane. Punjab rocks!

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,991]

>but who do the legislators attack?

Are you asking "do the legislators attack themselves or someone else?" The answer should be evident upon inspection. (Oil company executives, of course, use exactly the same rationale.)

On the plus side, look how much we'd save if the McCain/Clinton 'tax holiday' was implemented - 4 cents on the dollar! Around here, that would drop the price of a gallon of regular from $4.05 to $3.87.

[Remster 30]

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Around here, that would drop the price of a gallon of regular from $4.05 to $3.87.

No, it wouldnt... The equilibrium would be somehwere in between those values. I could draw graphs and all, but basically, consummers are willing to buy X gallons per day and pay 4.05, so there is no incentive for gas companies to drop the prices to 3.87.

Remster

[livendive 8]

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Skydiving will not be dead, probably very different though.

Less fun jumpers, less twin engine turbines, less outside video.

More single engine turbines, more hand cam, more emphasis on filling the plane.

Fun jumping is doomed...it already happened in NZ, is starting to happen in AU, we will see it here sooner rather than later.

What makes everyone think this isn't just one part of broad-based inflation (granted, a driving part)? If fuel costs go up, so do the costs of everything else. This in turn makes everyone charge more for everything, including workers demanding higher salaries so they can buy their higher priced groceries, cars, gas, and vacations. I haven't seen anything to indicate fuel prices are increasing in a vacuum unrelated to the prices for other goods and services. Quite the contrary, in fact. So everything costs me more, including jump tickets, but I can afford them because my pay increases have kept pace with the inflation. Granted, skydiving increases will likely outpace general inflation due to fuel being such a big part of the cost, but I can't see it being the end of the sport or anything like that.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[downwardspiral 0]

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I'm not going to support the gas companies profits any more than I have to.
It's caused me to change the way I think of everything I do involving gas.

ExxonMobil's profit margin is 7% overall.

Microsoft's is about 23%.

You can poo-poo the big companies all you want. That is not the problem with high gas prices right now. It is the weak dollar on the market coupled with speculation. Nothing more.

Good point.

I can't understand why people bitch and moan when some company posts huge profit numbers. It is called capitalism and that is what made America successful. Other nations like India and China have become successful following our capitalist ways. Why is it that some Americans are giving up on capitalism? Because its not fair????

Being a capitalist I feel the same way, however, when a company uses excuses to raise prices (because consumers will always complain about price increases for a necessity) doesn't it seem like a big FU from the oil companies when they show record profits? I guess the real question is does the increase in profits parallel the increase in demand?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[billvon 2,991]

>The equilibrium would be somehwere in between those values.

True; I guess it would be more accurate to say "the most it would drop to would be to 3.87." (Which isn't 100% accurate either; speculators could bail on oil and drive the price down at the same time.)