In Miami, Spanish Becoming Primary Language

[jcd11235 0]

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I'm not sure where you get your info, but I believe that English is spoken officially, as a first language, in more countries than Spanish. (Spanish and French are 2nd and 3rd in numbers of countries.) In addition, even if it's not an official first language, most business throughout the world is done in English.

I can't find either of my sources this morning, although they are consistent with other sources I've read. I doubt English is spoken as a first language in as many countries as Spanish.

At any rate, I would hate to see the US adopt an official language.

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[nerdgirl 0]

Link to dozens of sources noting Mandarin Chinese as most commonly spoken language, ~1B speakers worldwide, including ~850 million native speakers.

Whether Spanish or English is the 2nd or 3rd most commonly spoken language (both behind Mandarin) seems to be some discussion depending on how one does the counting (native versus secondary & tertiary speakers).

English is definitely the lingua franca (ironically) -- most influential language -- for commerce and technology. Altho' with the development of Chinese language web (& to lesser impact Russian language web), it will be interesting to note how that changes. If I was 15, I'd want to learn Mandarin as a 2nd language.

VR/Marg

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[billvon 3,059]

>So, why not make it easy and have one main language - English,
>the official language of the world?

If you want the language that is spoken by the most people, that's Mandarin. If you don't like Mandarin, Spanish is the second most popular language on the planet in terms of native speakers.

If you want a politically safe language that's easy to learn and has no 'baggage' - Esperanto is the ticket.

[kelpdiver 2]

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If you want a politically safe language that's easy to learn and has no 'baggage' - Esperanto is the ticket.

why not use latin then, if practically is irrelevant to the decision?

[billvon 3,059]

>why not use latin then, if practically is irrelevant to the decision?

You could. It's more complex and not as easy to learn, though.

[Nightingale 0]

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... either you adapt or you're left behind.

The problem is that these people are not adapting (learning English) and are not being left behind ...

I don't see why this is a problem. You can conduct your official government business in English if you want to. No private party is obligated to speak to you in English, and you're not obligated to do business with them in Spanish. If a business owner requires a bilingual employee in order to communicate with his or her customers and you're not bilingual, you don't meet the requirements for the job, so either become bilingual or find a job elsewhere. No business owner is obligated to hire you.

[skydyvr 0]

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If you want a politically safe language that's easy to learn and has no 'baggage' - Esperanto is the ticket.

why not use latin then, if practically is irrelevant to the decision?

Klingon is the obvious choice in this case.

. . =(_8^(1)

[kallend 2,105]

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If you want a politically safe language that's easy to learn and has no 'baggage' - Esperanto is the ticket.

why not use latin then, if practically is irrelevant to the decision?

You like ablative absolutes, datives of possession, gerunds, gerundives and subjunctives, I take it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[FreeflyChile 0]

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... either you adapt or you're left behind.

The problem is that these people are not adapting (learning English) and are not being left behind ...

I don't see why this is a problem. You can conduct your official government business in English if you want to. No private party is obligated to speak to you in English, and you're not obligated to do business with them in Spanish. If a business owner requires a bilingual employee in order to communicate with his or her customers and you're not bilingual, you don't meet the requirements for the job, so either become bilingual or find a job elsewhere. No business owner is obligated to hire you.

Precisely. This kind of complaining sounds to me like the call of those that refuse to adapt. So is the next cry going to be "Why should *I* have to get a master's degree to get a good job?? If you require a master's degree to hire me, you should be out of business!!"??

[Nightingale 0]

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why not use latin then, if practically is irrelevant to the decision?

Klingon is the obvious choice in this case.

HISlaH! reH 'eb tu'lu'.

tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'e'?

[Steel 0]

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the Spanish only speaking who are effectively useless to society outside of the spanish enclaves.
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I read this post a couple days ago and thought I should respond, but I figured this stupid thread will go away and its better to just ignore it. Then I see its still here so I thought I would respond to this post specifically.

My grandfather came to the U.S. in 1966 at the age of 58, without a penny to his name. Most of the people around him could not speak Spanish, yet he still managed to get a Job at a Chevy dealer fixing cars. Whether through sign language or context clues, he was able to communicate with his English only speaking boss without any problems.

A couple of years later he had his own body shop and with that, was able to buy his own two story house, send my father to Medical School abroad (in 1969) and had his house paid off 25 years later.

I'd say he was more USEFUL than a lot of U.S. born, English only speaking Americans.

My father came back from Spain a physician in 1975. Considering that he makes more than 6 times the national average salary, I don't think I need to enumerate any of his assets to prove his USEFULNESS.

Then I come into the picture. I won't claim to be as successful as my father or had as much of a challenge as my grandfather had. But since my 3000 squarefoot house is on schedule to be paid off (all on my earned dollar) in less than 6 years, I don't think calling me or my non-English speaking roots USELESS is accurate. In fact I think its quite ignorant and downright offensive.

And finally, I don't believe there is anything special about my family, we are the typical CUBAN family.

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The reason many parents prevented their kids from speaking anything but English was to ensure that they could travel elsewhere in America to study or work.
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The reason people prevent their kids from learning Spanish is to prevent the bigotted backlash from the ignorant Anglos. However, I have never seen a case where the choice to appease those bigotted attitudes is not regretted in the end.

I have a cousin who is my age, who wishes his father didn't make the poor choice of speaking to him only in English as a child. His father clearly regretted his error and did not make it with his younger kids.
I have 6 nieces from two sisters. The oldest two were not taught Spanish early on. That mistake is not only regretted by my oldest sister, who made it. It is also regretted my nieces themselves who wish they could be bilingual like the younger ones.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[kelpdiver 2]

you're answering a discussion about millions with an anecdote of one - your father. If you continued to read, you'd have seen I differentiated very clearly the difference between worker bees and owners.

[Steel 0]

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you're answering a discussion about millions with an anecdote of one - your father. If you continued to read, you'd have seen I differentiated very clearly the difference between worker bees and owners.

You said specifically that those who couldn't speak English were useless. That was an inaccurate statement.


Anyway there were actually there were 3 that I mentioned. My Grandfather , my father and myself. I could start telling you about my fathers freinds, my freinds, their fathers, or others I know from the community. But I abreviated it by saying, we (as in us 3) are the norm not the exception.


I could just as well quote stats which will prove that Cuban-Americans are actually on average more successful (in terms of income) than Americans in general, as I have done before. But then I will be accused of being an ethnocentrist/racist as I have been previously.

In anycase if you or anybody else wants to kid yourselves and think that you are better than us because you speak only English thats ok. Its not like there are enough misguided individuals to change our lives.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Steel 0]

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you're answering a discussion about millions with an anecdote of one - your father. If you continued to read, you'd have seen I differentiated very clearly the difference between worker bees and owners.

Oh and one other thing I just realized, there are less than 2 million Cubans in the U.S.(most of them living in Miami/Dade county, or Union City, NJ), and although this thread unfairly launches attacks towards Cubans in Miami by tagging us with with problems associated with other Spanish speaking groups, the reality is that Stats show the differences.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[chipiematt 0]

you guys are lucky!!!! we got got schools in london with a mix of kids speakin over 100 languages!!!!!!!!!!!!! english people are becoming a minority in london!!!

did you say tequila???

[kelpdiver 2]

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You said specifically that those who couldn't speak English were useless. That was an inaccurate statement.

no, I specifically asserted, as you quoted:
the Spanish only speaking who are effectively useless to society outside of the spanish enclaves.

And you are mistaken in thinking this is just about Cubans in Miami, though it's entertaining when you go on to say it's those other latino groups that are the problem. There are numerous single language enclaves across the country.

Then you continue to talk about individuals rather than the society.

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In anycase if you or anybody else wants to kid yourselves and think that you are better than us because you speak only English thats ok. Its not like there are enough misguided individuals to change our lives.

you really missed the point of the discussion. Nice red herring, of course. Bit stinky though.

[Squeak 17]

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ENGLISH was the language of our founding fathers. LEARN IT, OR GET THE FUCK OUT.

so too was german , and other Euro langauges also the USA (as was OZ was built by immigrant labour.
OH and YOU dont speak very good English either Billy nor do you hear it

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[georgerussia 0]

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English is also spoken in every country on the planet, if they have an airport, because that is the universal language that was chosen for tower controllers.

Well, there are countries where only tower controllers (and not even all of them) speak English :) Actually, a lot of people in Europe, Japan, China do not speak English outside capitals and major tourist places. It was always funny to see someone _expecting_ everyone around to speak English in Russia, Japan or Spain.

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