Do atheists/agnostics believe in.....

[shropshire 0]

For me - Common sense. Based upon real world experiences (mine and people that I learn from) - certainly not from mytholgy.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[maadmax 0]

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For me - Common sense. Based upon real world experiences (mine and people that I learn from) - certainly not from mytholgy***

If that is indeed true, you should write it down so it can be discussed and studied. What may
be common sense to you may not be available to someone else unless you provide it to them.

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[shropshire 0]

You make a good point but I wouldn't know where to start. I'm not the best communicator and would never try to teach.... actually, come to think of it, by it's very nature common sense can't be taught

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[stitch 0]

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Don't turn this into a geek fest. You're intelligent enough to know what I was implying.

I don't know what you were implying. One might say that my psychic powers aren’t working this week. Hence the question. Given the unclear use of the term:

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“A theory is just that. I believe more evidence needs to be presented.”

and the frequent confusion of the vernacular implication with the technical meaning, it was a legitimate request for clarification.

Of course, you don't have to answer anything; re-directing comments at me is vaguely curious, however, and off-topic.


I wasn’t aware there was any prohibition against such on Speakers Corner, if we want to have a geek … ahem, [ #800080]nerd[/#800080 ] fest, let's talk about pre-biotic synthesis of RNA, like this versus the biotic origin of RNA from earlier TNA or GNA debate. Or for a fabulous nerd fest – let’s look at the intersection of organic synthesis and photocatalysis and early Earth geochemistry of reducing atmosphere. For the more (astro)physics inclined, there’s the search for amino acids in the interstellar medium, of which the component molecules have already found.

Now that’s a just a sliver of a geek … [ #800080]nerd[/#800080 ] fest.
As opposed to asking for clarification on the ambiguous usage of a word with *very* different meanings.
VR/Marg

Don't make me come up there.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[BikerBabe 0]

funny thing.

I used to be an atheist. I thought the Big Bang theory was true.

I am now a Christian. and you know what? I STILL think the big bang theory is true! *gasp* I KNOW! hard to believe isn't it?

The one constant through my change in faith is that i have the mind (and even the heart) of a scientist. I get so sick of these arguments that science and religion/faith/belief/whatever are at odds. They aren't. The never had to be. For me, they never will be. and i pray that as time goes on, more and more folks will come to realize the same.

To me, science is one of the tools God gave us to help understand Him better. We have rational minds with the abilities to reason out countless problems, both scientific and otherwise. To say that God doesn't want us to use the abilities He gave us kind of strikes me as blasphemous (for lack of a better term).

Who knows, maybe someday there will be some kind of evidence, proven by the scientific method, that God does exist. Then again, i've seen different levels of proof required for ANY sort of scientific theory. Some people will NEVER EVER have enough proof. Some already do. That, m'dears, is where faith steps in.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Squeak 17]

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For me - Common sense. Based upon real world experiences (mine and people that I learn from) - certainly not from mytholgy***

If that is indeed true, you should write it down so it can be discussed and studied. What may
be common sense to you may not be available to someone else unless you provide it to them.

Same here, that and support of friends and loved ones. There are many many atheists out here who live very fulfilling and rewarding lives.
I don't give a fat rats arse what your believe in, "what ever floats your boat" is fine by me, but i do draw the tolerance line at ignorance and faith pushing to those not interested.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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[maadmax 0]

I don't give a fat rats arse what your believe in, "what ever floats your boat" is fine by me, but i do draw the tolerance line at ignorance and faith pushing to those not interested***

I agree. We all have the freedom and responsibility to believe what ever we want. Since you are here in Speakers Corner, I assume you must be interested in discussing important issues with people of varying viewpoints. But if you are one of those "not interested" maybe the Bonfire would suit you better.

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[Squeak 17]

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I don't give a fat rats arse what your believe in, "what ever floats your boat" is fine by me, but i do draw the tolerance line at ignorance and faith pushing to those not interested***

I agree. We all have the freedom and responsibility to believe what ever we want. Since you are here in Speakers Corner, I assume you must be interested in discussing important issues with people of varying viewpoints. But if you are one of those "not interested" maybe the Bonfire would suit you better.

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making statements of absolules is not discussing anything, it shows a closed minded view. I dont waste too much time with closed minded people

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[stitch 0]

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Don't turn this into a geek fest. You're intelligent enough to know what I was implying.

Yes, but are you intelligent enough to understand what she was actually pointing out?

Mama says, "Its because Alligators has all thems teefs an ain't gots no toofsbrush".

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Law vs. Opinion.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[georgerussia 0]

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What have you found that gives your life direction and meaning, allowing you to perfect the good things and minimize the bad?

Probably the same that gave the people life directions before they ever heard about Jesus.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[shropshire 0]

Good answer.. The actual number of people throughout the history of the human species to have heard of JC must make up a very small percentage of all humans ever.

Afterall, what is 2000 years a fraction of the span of human kind?

It just does not make logical sense.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[maadmax 0]

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Good answer.. The actual number of people throughout the history of the human species to have heard of JC must make up a very small percentage of all humans ever.

Afterall, what is 2000 years a fraction of the span of human kind?

It just does not make logical sense***


God has always reached out to man. Christianity is only the latest chapter. It makes perfect sense to me.

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[Lindsey 0]

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Good answer.. The actual number of people throughout the history of the human species to have heard of JC must make up a very small percentage of all humans ever.

Afterall, what is 2000 years a fraction of the span of human kind?

It just does not make logical sense***


God has always reached out to man. Christianity is only the latest chapter. It makes perfect sense to me.

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Absolutely! Look at how God reached out to people through Thor! In the day, people'd be crazy to mock Thor.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

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[kallend 2,027]

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Good answer.. The actual number of people throughout the history of the human species to have heard of JC must make up a very small percentage of all humans ever.

Afterall, what is 2000 years a fraction of the span of human kind?

It just does not make logical sense***


God has always reached out to man. Christianity is only the latest chapter. It makes perfect sense to me.

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Of course it does, because you choose to interpret ANYTHING that happens as evidence of God.

Good things happen - God loves us.
Bad things happen - God acts in mysterious ways.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[shaark 0]

I'm on your page, but in the opposite sense.
I'm from an average religious background and was educated in religious run schools. Religion was taught in religion class, and evolution, big bang,etc. were taught in science class (mostly by clerics). Didn't faze anyone.
Now I'm agnostic, but appreciate the big bang 'theory' as our best grasp of the start of the universe. What is really cool is that humans can tackle such concepts, especially the weirdness of quantum physics.
I don't know that a god gave us the intellect to think/understand like this, because I don't know that there is a god. No proof either way. Just philosophical leanings.
I do think that all human gods are of necessity anthropomorphic, which makes them suspect, especially with no factual evidence.

[shropshire 0]

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Good answer.. The actual number of people throughout the history of the human species to have heard of JC must make up a very small percentage of all humans ever.

Afterall, what is 2000 years a fraction of the span of human kind?

It just does not make logical sense***


God has always reached out to man. Christianity is only the latest chapter. It makes perfect sense to me.

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Yet more beliefs stated as fact - come on, enough already.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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[rynodigsmusic 0]

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[rynodigsmusic 0]

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I'm on your page, but in the opposite sense.
I'm from an average religious background and was educated in religious run schools. Religion was taught in religion class, and evolution, big bang,etc. were taught in science class (mostly by clerics). Didn't faze anyone.
Now I'm agnostic, but appreciate the big bang 'theory' as our best grasp of the start of the universe. What is really cool is that humans can tackle such concepts, especially the weirdness of quantum physics.
I don't know that a god gave us the intellect to think/understand like this, because I don't know that there is a god. No proof either way. Just philosophical leanings.
I do think that all human gods are of necessity anthropomorphic, which makes them suspect, especially with no factual evidence.

In the case of the origin of the universe, what impact does that have on spirituality? On getting the absolute most out of life? This is a sincere question by the way.

"We didn't start the fire"

[maadmax 0]

Absolutely! Look at how God reached out to people through Thor! In the day, people'd be crazy to mock Thor.

linz***

And just when I had given up on you. Maybe there is hope for you yet


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[Squeak 17]

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There are spiritual truths in the world. There is an incredible and enlightening wisdom in life, and I think you would agree. Many of these truths require belief, but that doesnt make them fictional.

Umm, not there is not, there ARE Spiritual BELIEFS, and they are not universal ergo they are not truths.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[shaark 0]

What is spirituality? (That's also a question for you. Language can be so limiting in communication.)

Maybe: an awareness of self, and a quest to try and grasp some sense of the meaning of life. A joy in consciousness, and for many a need to hope that individual consciousness continues after the death of the body.
As a spiritual person I experience great joy of life. I dearly hope my consciousness will continue, and hopefully will even expand. Don't know if it will.

God may exist, but if so by definition is unknowable. And not humanly understandable.
An entity may or may not have created the universe. (I prefer 'multiverse'. Universe is too parochial.) Unknowable.
Given such an entity, it may or may not be self aware. Probably such a human concept means nothing.
Such an entity may no longer exist. Maybe the entity became the multiverse. Who's to know?

Big bang? Most recent and most favoured origin theory.
Even this does not quite get us to it's singularity, and we have no comprehension of the singularity itself, or anything before. Isn't it great that there is so much to explore?
For religious and non-religious alike the origin of the universe question, no matter how far back one can or wants to take it, seems to be a fantastically exciting quest, a spiritual quest.
I would say --- Be in awe that you are an aware part of everything. We are, at least in a small way, the consciousness of the universe. And, if there is awareness after death, a consciousness of a realm we know nothing about yet, or maybe just a different consciousness of the universe we now inhabit.
How cool.
I'm excited.
Glad I live today and not in any time/place that let religion block thought.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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There are spiritual truths in the world. There is an incredible and enlightening wisdom in life, and I think you would agree. Many of these truths require belief, but that doesnt make them fictional.

Umm, not there is not, there ARE Spiritual BELIEFS, and they are not universal ergo they are not truths.

This is where you will have to express what you know about how to achieve the greater and finer things in life. If your universal truths can impact that in any way, I am all ears believe me. What makes you truly happy? Why do you have opportunities others do not and visa versa? Where is your wisdom? What do you offer?

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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What is spirituality? (That's also a question for you. Language can be so limiting in communication.)

Maybe: an awareness of self, and a quest to try and grasp some sense of the meaning of life. A joy in consciousness, and for many a need to hope that individual consciousness continues after the death of the body.
As a spiritual person I experience great joy of life. I dearly hope my consciousness will continue, and hopefully will even expand. Don't know if it will.

God may exist, but if so by definition is unknowable. And not humanly understandable.
An entity may or may not have created the universe. (I prefer 'multiverse'. Universe is too parochial.) Unknowable.
Given such an entity, it may or may not be self aware. Probably such a human concept means nothing.
Such an entity may no longer exist. Maybe the entity became the multiverse. Who's to know?

Big bang? Most recent and most favoured origin theory.
Even this does not quite get us to it's singularity, and we have no comprehension of the singularity itself, or anything before. Isn't it great that there is so much to explore?
For religious and non-religious alike the origin of the universe question, no matter how far back one can or wants to take it, seems to be a fantastically exciting quest, a spiritual quest.
I would say --- Be in awe that you are an aware part of everything. We are, at least in a small way, the consciousness of the universe. And, if there is awareness after death, a consciousness of a realm we know nothing about yet, or maybe just a different consciousness of the universe we now inhabit.
How cool.
I'm excited.
Glad I live today and not in any time/place that let religion block thought.

I really liked your post. It is without ignorance. I am glad your spirituality brings you joy, and hoping that it does bring joy to others as well. The only thing that makes me a Christian is that I believe Jesus died for my sins and that he came from God (who you consider to be the aware or unaware consciousness of the universe if I read your post right). Knowing these two very simple things allows a spirit of love so powerful to indwell within us that it actually testifies to us all the time. Grace is this measure, and yes, it is eternally revealed, meaning, we cant put an actual measure on it as it does grow through its revelations. Love by nature can grow stonger in absence, and also through accepting forgiveness. What I have found is that the deeper I go, the deeper it gets, there seems to be no limit through faith.

Where it seems that we differ a bit is that I think you may underestimate hope as it applies to the fullness of life. The more I understand even just fractions of this love, the more I am empowered to believe and the more sure my hope gets. A hope that is sure and waiting is the greatest gift we can recieve through faith, and love seems to be the greatest way to make that connection with us. Had Christ come in any other way, I dont think he would have represented God. Instead, he came with a love so limitless that it must be believed to be recieved in any measure. So while your belief seems to be fashioned around the conscience for its power, mine is fashioned around a limitless love and desire to be the righteousness of God. There is something within us that desires righteousness, the more we feed that desire, the closer we come to the power in our actual existance. Its about giving ourselves what we truly want. Unfortunately for our sinful nature what we truly want conflicts with it.

Sprituality to me is about finding life. The absolute fullness of it. I believe the secret of life is to find life, and that only love and truth can get us there. Just saying that it takes life to find life is a challenge for anyone still in ignorance as they sincerely believe there is no life beyond what is seen and touched even though they constantly search for it both consciously and unconsciously. Both the search and the reward are expressed in the Gospel, and was the very message of Jesus.

"We didn't start the fire"

[Squeak 17]

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There are spiritual truths in the world. There is an incredible and enlightening wisdom in life, and I think you would agree. Many of these truths require belief, but that doesnt make them fictional.

Umm, not there is not, there ARE Spiritual BELIEFS, and they are not universal ergo they are not truths.

This is where you will have to express what you know about how to achieve the greater and finer things in life. If your universal truths can impact that in any way, I am all ears believe me. What makes you truly happy? Why do you have opportunities others do not and visa versa? Where is your wisdom? What do you offer?

I don't offer anything
I live my live in a manner that suits me, and it works,
What I don't do is go around espousing that my way is the way for any one else. Or prophesying that my belief systems are the global panaceas to all lifes ills.
Beliefs are nothing more than that, they are not TRUTHS (necessarily) and not LAWS.
As i said before I don't give a crap about how you live your life, but don't try to suppose that it's the way for the world.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[shaark 0]

If there is a God I would hesitate to be so rigid in thinking as to ascribe the human concept of 'love' to such an unknowable entity.
I do not have any belief either for or against the possible existence of a god. I think this is the most honest position for a thinking, critical person to take.
Righteousness of god? So many different religions, so many different cultures. What is right, or righteousness? Very slippery concepts, and most definitely not absolutes.
I don't get what you mean re 'hope'. Hope for life after death?
Secret of life is to find life? Don't think there is any 'secret'. Live, experience, learn, try to understand as much as possible, question, think, enjoy. Maybe favour more a Buddhist-style philosophy --- respect everything, and try not to let your living be negative for anything/anyone.
Sure this is a challenge, but challenge makes life worth living. A belief in a god is not a prerequisite, and I do not see why a non-belief should make it more of a challenge, and if so, why, then striving with this challenge should be even more fulfilling.

Want to get into science more?
I 'believe' in our subjective universe. I 'believe' that the ground is solid, and if I bounce it will hurt. I also 'believe' the ground is a macro representation of quantum effects, vis. force fields. I 'believe' force fields are a manifestation of vibrating strings (never mind what particular flavour of string theory). When I skydive my reality is the macro world. When I sit and ponder about a rock, I am gratified that present day physics allows me to sort of understand on a much deeper level. I also can include the Indian (native American) concept of "only the rocks live forever". I can also touch, taste, see and feel the rock. The totality gives me a partially satisfying appreciation of a little bit of the universe, of life.
More science. We can somewhat grasp Relativity. We cannot relate to Quantum physics, though we make use of many quantum effects. The quest to understand the origin of the universe seems to require the integration of both scales of 'reality'.
Again I say How Cool. That critical human intellect can tackle such questions, such concepts. With a basis in verifiable 'facts'. Science is a credit to humanity, and vice versa.