Do atheists/agnostics believe in.....

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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To say that God doesnt exist is to say that love doesnt exist.

[/logic][/reason]To say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist is to say that hunger doesn't exist. Surely you've been hungry before, right? Therefore the FSM must be real.[reason][logic]

You coninue to fascinate me with your wisdom! An educated man such as yourself cant seem to grasp that God is life and all things that sustain it. And that us, his greatest and most tresured creation actually may have the ability to know him through an unimaginable (to some) power called faith.

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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To say that God doesnt exist is to say that love doesn't exist.

I've stared at this statement for ages and it just doesn't make any sense to me. Please would you explain it to me.

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>>>>How do I explain your connection with love? That is, how do I explain why you love what you do? Most everyone has someone they love/loved, but love has a nature to it, in its connection that "gives us wings" and fills us with life. I been in love before, or at least thats what I thought it was at the time, but in the nature of love is a limitless supply, an eternal supply that can only be dipped into when we believe we are loved. Jesus as the embodiment of the spirit of Love (God) offers that depth to whomever desires it. When we begin to understand that love has nature to it, it comes alive, like a rush of bursting energy to our hearts and brightens with ever increasing joy the perception of the world around us. In its power, even suffering can find love, death, heartache, weakness, remorse, can all empower love through understanding. When we recieve Gods spirit of love in us, the nature of this love reveals to us its desires. Love loves to be shared...this is true when we find love in someone else in our physical lives as well. Love desires to be loved, like a child crying out for comfort, care, acceptance, also as in life in the physical. This list goes on, and through understanding, love exposes it actually has a nature to it. Through Christ, that nature is revealed as always being fully satisfied but never having enough. That is why it is living. As it gives, in its nature, it never takes away, and increases and increases. Love also hopes believe it or not. Those who are recieveing the love of Christ know what I am talking about as our hope is in recieving this love to its fullest when Jesus is revealed. Though many may find this ridiculous nonsense, love also reveals that faith gives it power. There are just way too many similarities between the love that is revealed to us in the physical, and the love that is given through faith in Jesus and a life that surrenders to accepting the spirit he died to ensure we at least had. So that at least some might taste the Kingdom of Heaven right here on earth. If we are all mad anyway, wouldnt you want to be madly in love?

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Also, I'm curious. You talk about Jesus a lot and it made me wonder if you chose Christianity because God spoke to you or something, or if you fell into Christianity like most of us do because your parents were Christians.

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>>>>My mom and my dad were both Christian. My grandparents and most of my family. I felt a strong pull toward Jesus when I was five and "got saved". I dont remember going to church that much except for between 5 and 9 or so. At 9, my parents divorced, as most do, and we all stopped going to church. From about 15-26 or 27 I spent alot of time in seperation, living in sin without God, rebellion as it is called... darkness. And darkness is subjective for everyone, but it is a feeling of death under a fascade of life. I wrote something when I was in it one time to sort of describe it. "Im trapped in a prison, and I cant find the little bars that hold me there. Im searching for something I cannot share, all I feel is soft despair". I followed this path of darkness further than I ever wanted to and found that I may have gone to far to come out of it. I was addicted to this dark feeling. I wrote again, "We drink till it hurts, but its not enough to hide the hurt". There is a pain that is almost indescribable, very real, and it wasnt until I read the Gospel one morining that my entire life changed. The rest is across a line that people will either believe or they wont, but for me, what is across that line is the most sacred and incredible life I have known. I hope that wasnt too long winded.

And if Christianity did just happen to be your family tree's default religion then have you ever wondered if you'd been born to Muslims if you'd be talking a lot about Mohammed. What if your parents were Budhists - what would you believe now?

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>>>>Islam works on oppression. Im sorry, but this is how I see it. A great percentage of Muslims who are born Muslim, die Muslim. I was in Jerusalem and visiting with many theological type people, Palestenian Muslims, Jews, Atheist, a few Christians. I gathered alot of personal information to understand others in their culture and faith, and yes, mine as well. What they said was about 99 % of Muslims born Muslim, die Muslim. Jewish was similar. I believe that God is immeasurable love (grace) and the greatest expression I still see of that is Christ. Of course will all "religions" only faith that produces good fruit is worth anything. That is, If I say I am a Christian but do not practice it, then.... and the same for other faiths. This is what Max was talking about when he talked about the object of faith being true or not. There is much more to say on the subject of other religions as they apply to the spirit of Life. But perhaps on another post.

>>>>While I was born into a Christian family, the ONLY thing that makes a Christian is faith in the grace given through Jesus. The more I think about when I started to really believe, the more I realized that there is a good chance I not only did not know Jesus when I was younger, but may not have been saved. But, Jesus talks about faith starting off so small that it is almost non existant and growing into the greatest gift we could find, so, I may have been saved, but I surely did not feel the gift of life. Sin unfortunately causes separation from God, but is necessary when seeking life, because sin reveals death so that death can reveal life. Again, this is all in the gospel and in the testimony of the those who were touched by it.

Would you have converted to Christianity? Would you have adopted Buddah with the same enthusiasm that you show for Jesus?

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>>>>Born into a buddahist household, I surely would have followed the path of enlightenment. I can only thank God with great gratitude that I was able to find Jesus. There are many similariteis between the two. I cant testify for buddahist, only for Jesus. But research into others' beliefs reveals Jesus is still the truth to me. Enlightenment through wisdom is about being enlightend to life. Jesus, as what was revealed in my testimony, and in the Gospel, is Life. I found plenty of spiritual wisdom in my search to get out of death, but it wasnt until I repented and prayed to be baptised in the Holy Spirit that I found power. This is just my testimony, I dont want to lie to you. I made that prayer after about an hour or so of reading one of the Gospels in the bedroom of my apt with no one around. That prayer changed my life in ways that I am willing to die for. It was like witnessing a miracle and continuing to witness a miracle everyday.

I wonder if maybe you have the kind of personality that needs to strongly believe in something, and fulfilling that desire is how Christianity makes your life feel so meaningful.

>>>>I dont really believe my life is that meaningful, as hard as that may be for some to grasp. I have found something, thats all, something that is incredible and that I cant stop talking about or even thinking about. It comes out when I talk to people because I love it so much and love desires to share what it loves. As for whether or not my personality is the type that needs to believe something, I just dont know. What I do know is that I didnt know how much love was missing from my life until the love of Jesus came in, so if I was someone who needing love and healing but didnt know it until I found Jesus, then yes, I guess I would be someone whos personality was fashioned around needing to believe in something. Sorry about the long response, but these questions you asked were really good and very personal to me anyway. Jesus says "do not give your pearls to pigs, or they may turn and trample you under foot". Let them trample. You sounded sincere and not deceptive in your question asking. Please forgive all spelling and grammar.

"We didn't start the fire"

[kallend 2,027]

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To say that God doesnt exist is to say that love doesnt exist.

[/logic][/reason]To say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist is to say that hunger doesn't exist. Surely you've been hungry before, right? Therefore the FSM must be real.[reason][logic]

You coninue to fascinate me with your wisdom! An educated man such as yourself cant seem to grasp that God is life and all things that sustain it. And that us, his greatest and most tresured creation actually may have the ability to know him through an unimaginable (to some) power called faith.

It's funny that you can see the absurdity of others' remarks, but when your remarks are equally absurd and devoid of all logic, you just can't/won't understand why others don't take your gobbledeygook seriously.

The bottom line is that you hold a set of beliefs that have absolutely no evidence in support of them, and all the gobbledeygook in the world won't change that.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jcd11235 0]

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An educated man such as yourself cant seem to grasp that God is life and all things that sustain it.

Offer a precise definition of God (not simply however you want to define the concept for a particular post), and your assertion might merit consideration.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[maadmax 0]

The bottom line is that you hold a set of beliefs that have absolutely no evidence in support of them, and all the gobbledeygook in the world won't change that***

Ask the helpless alcoholic who's life has been transformed by a personal relationship with Jesus at any of the daily AA meetings around the world if there is absolutely no evidence. Or the countless number of people who have found freedom, that were hopelessly ensnared by their self destructive sinful desires & behaviors, if there is no evidence.
Repeatable results = Evidence

______________________________________-

[Shotgun 1]

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Ask the helpless alcoholic who's life has been transformed by a personal relationship with Jesus at any of the daily AA meetings around the world if there is absolutely no evidence. Or the countless number of people who have found freedom, that were hopelessly ensnared by their self destructive sinful desires & behaviors, if there is no evidence.
Repeatable results = Evidence

Yep, that is evidence that the belief in a god can have a positive effect on a person's life. But it is not evidence that a god exists.

[billvon 2,991]

>Had you asked me about how a vectored AC motor drives work 400
>years ago, I would of said that it didn't and that alternating current was
>just a myth because there was no evidence for it.

However, today is . . . today. And today, we understand that there are complex systems that some people do not understand (like elevator drives) that are not driven by God. They are just too complex to easily understand.

There are a lot of things like that out there. They are not evidence of God; they are evidence of a lack of understanding.

[billvon 2,991]

>Ask the helpless alcoholic who's life has been transformed by a
>personal relationship with Jesus at any of the daily AA meetings around
>the world if there is absolutely no evidence.

Ask an atheist who has beaten the same addiction if God is needed to achieve great things. Ask a Muslim who has used his belief to beat an addiction to alcohol if Christ or Allah is the "real" savior.

>Repeatable results = Evidence

OK. Atheists continually achieve wondrous things in their lives without any belief in God. What does that tell you?

[JeanJeanie 0]

In Reply To
And more importantly.... whose name do they scream when they orgasm?
====================

Mine of course!
'Jeanie, oh Jeanie'


Peace, Jeanie

~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK

[Erroll 80]

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Ask a Muslim who has used his belief to beat an addiction to alcohol if Christ or Allah is the "real" savior.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but an alcoholic Muslim is in very serious trouble.

[Squeak 17]

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Ask the helpless alcoholic who's life has been transformed by a personal relationship with Jesus at any of the daily AA meetings around the world if there is absolutely no evidence. Or the countless number of people who have found freedom, that were hopelessly ensnared by their self destructive sinful desires & behaviors, if there is no evidence.
Repeatable results = Evidence

Yep, that is evidence that the belief in a god can have a positive effect on a person's life. But it is not evidence that a god exists.

OR
You can ask me a recovering Alcoholic and Addict with 18 years clean and sober and an Atheist to boot

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Not to put too fine a point on it, but an alcoholic Muslim is in very serious trouble.

I don't see why a Muslim alcoholic would be in any more serious trouble than a non-Muslim alcoholic. I mean, yes, their religion forbids alcohol, and they may live in a country where it is illegal. But I would think those facts might make it easier for them to recover compared to (for example) a Catholic alcoholic living in the U.S. where alcohol is widely available and socially acceptable (and even served at some church functions).

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OR
You can ask me a recovering Alcoholic and Addict with 18 years clean and sober and an Atheist to boot

So, have you seen any evidence of the existence of a god? And what was it that helped you to turn your life around? (Obviously it wasn't a personal relationship with Jesus, since you're an atheist.)

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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To say that God doesnt exist is to say that love doesnt exist.

[/logic][/reason]To say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist is to say that hunger doesn't exist. Surely you've been hungry before, right? Therefore the FSM must be real.[reason][logic]

You coninue to fascinate me with your wisdom! An educated man such as yourself cant seem to grasp that God is life and all things that sustain it. And that us, his greatest and most tresured creation actually may have the ability to know him through an unimaginable (to some) power called faith.

It's funny that you can see the absurdity of others' remarks, but when your remarks are equally absurd and devoid of all logic, you just can't/won't understand why others don't take your gobbledeygook seriously.

The bottom line is that you hold a set of beliefs that have absolutely no evidence in support of them, and all the gobbledeygook in the world won't change that.

Your right. And I wouldnt have it any other way! One day, maybe logic will tell you that faith is where the power actually is. Or do you think that mankind is incapable of faith? Those who adamantly disbelieve in God, do so by faith, while at the same time saying they dont believe in faith. Any more logic there? I love how people who have NO ANSWERS themselves question the answers that others have found by formulating questions they still havent found answers for. I dont think that we have to look too far to see that mankind is completely out of our minds, and that, is one of our greatest qualities. Watch someone who falls in love loose all logic, all reason, all rationale for it. Someone much wiser than myself said that we are all fools in love. Spend your time searching for evidence, I will live in this Heaven until I am dead, and I will face death with a hope that cannot be taken by the petty intelligence of this world. And the great thing about hope is, that it too grows. I didnt see before that hope actually grows to the point of empowerment. That is, there is a difference between hoping with nothing left and hoping while waiting for something you know will be revealled.

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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An educated man such as yourself cant seem to grasp that God is life and all things that sustain it.

Offer a precise definition of God (not simply however you want to define the concept for a particular post), and your assertion might merit consideration.

God is Love. Life is loves greatest gift. Just look at how love empowers us with life in this world and how it makes us want to be better, do better, be good, do good. Love loves to be alive, and hates to be separated from what it loves. People fear love or embrace it. It destroys and empowers. Its connection is so unique with each individual it is expressed in so many different ways. What we know about love is weak, very weak. Its depth goes beyond our capacity of thought and its Glory would be devestaing if revealed all at once. Its energy consumes like a raging river, anything that goes against it gets wiped away and there is a flow to its wisdom. I dont think I have to tell you that love is not dead, it never dies, Love is alive and its promises last forever. There are those who will die to it and those who will live by it. Those whose hearts reveal heaven and those whose hearts reveal hell. It cant force someone to love it, that is against its nature, its love is only recieved when it is believed, through, fear, through doubt, through pain, through blame, through pride, through everything love conquers and is made more powerful. It shares, fills...sorry, I have to go.....

"We didn't start the fire"

[billvon 2,991]

>Not to put too fine a point on it, but an alcoholic Muslim is in very serious trouble.

Which may be one reason they have better luck beating their addictions.

[beowulf 1]

You write some of the silliest and goofiest stuff here. I find it hard to believe you actually believe any of it.

[jcd11235 0]

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Just look at how love empowers us with life in this world …

Hmmm … and this whole time I've been under the impression that it had something to do with eggs being fertilized by sperm. Thanks for clearing that up.

Like I said, if you can define God precisely, I'll consider your assertion. However, if you continue using words in ways inconsistent with their definitions, don't be surprised if no one takes your posts seriously.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Squeak 17]

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OR
You can ask me a recovering Alcoholic and Addict with 18 years clean and sober and an Atheist to boot

So, have you seen any evidence of the existence of a god? And what was it that helped you to turn your life around? (Obviously it wasn't a personal relationship with Jesus, since you're an atheist.)

Atheism does not deny the exsistance of a dude called Jesus, many people believe he is an historical figure and teacher, I think he was the 1st Union organiser, trying to get a better deal for his peeps.
Just not the son of God.

Atheists generally deny the exsistance of God so that should answer you 1st question

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Atheists generally deny the exsistance of God so that should answer you 1st question

Yes, but I was just asking you because you told me to.

And you didn't answer my second question. (Though I'm guessing that it was mostly YOU that helped you to turn your life around.)

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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You write some of the silliest and goofiest stuff here. I find it hard to believe you actually believe any of it.

LOL!! I think thats the nicest thing youve said to me yet! I hope you dont mind me saying thanks!

"We didn't start the fire"

[Squeak 17]

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Atheists generally deny the exsistance of God so that should answer you 1st question

Yes, but I was just asking you because you told me to.

And you didn't answer my second question. (Though I'm guessing that it was mostly YOU that helped you to turn your life around.)

The secret to my success (shhh dont tell anyone else)
Was and still to this day is
"Do not pick up a drink or a drug TODAY".
I have done that everyday for the last nearly 18 years, so far it works

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Hmmm … and this whole time I've been under the impression that it had something to do with eggs being fertilized by sperm. Thanks for clearing that up.

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>>>>Love is about connection. Can you describe the connection to me? Im sincerely asking because I absolutely love the connection and the greatest expressions of it come from the heart, so if you can share, im definitely all ears!

Like I said, if you can define God precisely, I'll consider your assertion. However, if you continue using words in ways inconsistent with their definitions, don't be surprised if no one takes your posts seriously.

>>>>Open up and let it in. God is Love. How can I define love precisely? Artists all throughout time have failed to capture the depth in its power. Collectively we have been able to express it, but with radical limits, love is not for us to recive its full measure, but to become its full measure. Imagine that, becoming Love. This is the essence of the Gospel, but it starts with the heart. God gave us his heart in Jesus, so that we might become his heart in Jesus.

"We didn't start the fire"

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The secret to my success (shhh dont tell anyone else)
Was and still to this day is
"Do not pick up a drink or a drug TODAY".
I have done that everyday for the last nearly 18 years, so far it works

That's cool. I'm glad to hear that it's working for you.

[jcd11235 0]

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Can you describe the connection to me? Im sincerely asking because I absolutely love the connection and the greatest expressions of it come from the heart, so if you can share, im definitely all ears!

If it means that much to you, then perhaps you should describe it.

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God is Love.

So God is but an emotion? Or are you trying to redefine love to be something it really isn't?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!