normiss 806 #51 October 10, 2008 If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #52 October 10, 2008 >If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide, right? Exactly! Now let's get those conversations recorded, those water bottles confiscated, those guns registered and those foreigners held indefinitely. We'll all be safer as a result. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #53 October 10, 2008 QuoteIf you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide, right? The 4th Amendment was created for dignitary purposes. We are to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. The fact that we don't hear words like "Papers, please" is because of the 4th Amendment. I intensely value my privacy. Not because I have anything to hide, but because I value my privacy. My business is my business and nobody else's. On the other hand, other peoples' business is their business and not mine. If I want to be left alone, I should be left alone. I've got nothing to hide. But I want it hidden. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #54 October 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteI understand the principle behind your frustration but do you think you or I are going to be wiretapped? If you have nothing to hide you should not be too concerned. If some CIA agent wiretaps my home phone and hears me and my wife talk about whats for dinner and what time the Little League game starts has my right to privacy been violated? Technically, yes. But has my quality of life been affected? I don't think so. Sorry to say that I was expecting this to be the first response. People care more about what Rev Wright did or didn't say and will go on about it passionately for weeks on end. But when it comes to removing one of our basic American rights they are flippant. Go back and look up the McCarthy era again. This allows the same thing to happen, and worse. It may not impact you today but it will down the line. It's a slippery slope. LOL flippant? Pot calling the kettle black? Perhaps you'll recall posting this..... QuoteThe bottom line here is that nothing has changed in Chicago and your overall safety has not gone down. In fact I would say the city is about as safe as it's ever been if as long as you are not in a gang. The gang violence is certainly out of hand and it's having a greater impact outside of just the shootings that needs to be taken care of. I assure you that the addition or subtraction of guns into my neighborhood would do nothing to change the current situation. You can argue against me and then I'll compare my 35 years living of living here and then ask how you know better than me what this area has gone through. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3323937;#3323937www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #55 October 10, 2008 Quote LOL flippant? Pot calling the kettle black? Perhaps you'll recall posting this..... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3323937;#3323937 I guess this is part of that one oneupmanship that tends to flow so generously on this site. I've grown bored of most of the posting in the SC because a real conversation seems nearly impossible these days. So I tend to stay away from here and on forums where people can express different point of views in a manner that is less like a school yard playground. Maybe you missed the point of my post. I'll point out what was between the lines there: The guns are not the issue in Chicago, the problem is elsewhere when it comes to the recent violence here. So look at that shocker, I didn't say anything for or against the 2nd there! ::gasp:: And, like a broken record, here I go again on my gun stance: I support the 2nd and I support the recent SCOTUS ruling. I've had a FOID card and have gone shooting countless times. I do not currently own a gun because I live inside the city. I'm not sure I would or would not once I do move to the burbs again next year because I know I don't need one for my own security. So much for being flippant I guess. You know, I may not be Scalian when it comes to my beliefs but I am also not part of that typical liberal minded person you apparently need to passionately rally against. Go back and read this thread at how I pointed out Obama's stance on the FISA bill. Previous to that I had monthly donations setup for his campaign that would bring me to the legal limit. Upon the publication of his POV, I canceled all funs to his campaign. This was also the first time in my entire life I gave any money to a political campaign. Anyhow, back to the original topic here. I saw Nightline last night and the only thing I could say was "I told you so." Now, I wonder how much of our current forms of communication get tossed around like that story? Afterall with the FISA change and the lack of accountability anything you do that involves electronic communication can be stored (despite that still being illegal) and listened to._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #56 October 10, 2008 I didn't miss the point. You displayed a lack of caring about one of your rights being taken away in that post while showing passion and anger over "Congress pissing all over the 4th Amendment." And you ask in this very thread...."So where are all the defenders of the 2nd?? They get very up in arms (pun) about changes and laws connected to it." As if to separate yourself from them. You drew a very specific line and when it's thrown back in your face, you call it oneupmenship and refference a school yard play ground. I'm sorry to say you are part of the very problem you despise good sir. I am passionate about the 2nd Amendment not only for my own securtiy but because one of the main intents of the Amendment was protection from an oppressive government. And if you don't think our government is oppressive now, you'd have to be dishonest to think it's not heading that way. That being said I'm very much with you on the 4th Amendment or any Amendment for that matter. My question is...what do we do about it? The kneejerk answer for me is to stop supporting the parties who are perpetrating such opprression. Maybe we need to bring back the Anti-Federalist party.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #57 October 10, 2008 I did not display any such lack of concern. Since Chicago is my home I'm more about solving the problem and not using it as a soapbox for an issue that should be settled in the SCOTUS. There isn't any gun legislation that will change things here, the effort needs to be far more personal. I fully support the 2nd it's just that my POV doesn't match the gun nuts at the NRA. So yes, I separate myself from that group fully. I, also, don't match up with the antigun nuts that want to wipe them from the face of the planet. Consider me in the middle of both groups but realize I'm passionate about the maintaining the right and not the objects it protects. So the people I was referring to in this statement: ""So where are all the defenders of the 2nd?? They get very up in arms (pun) about changes and laws connected to it."" are those that need to post every single tidbit about guns on this site as if it was a gun forum. Yes, I do separate myself from that group of people because the object themselves aren't really important to me. If I never fired a gun again I would be quite alright with that, but don't you dare take away my right to make that choice. Make sense? Now, with the FISA and the current lack of a 4th Amendment in this country? Not sure what to do since there is 100% immunity for those committing the crime. Everyone bought into it and defended it under the guise of "we need this for our personal security!!!!11" Sadly there was a large amount of enthusiasm and apathy on the topic that allowed it to pass. The only real option is to get someone into office that claims they will reverse it and believe they will do so. Last I checked McCain supports the changes to illegal wiretapping and Obama promises per his press release that he will revert FISA once in office. I'm too jaded at this point to trust anyone that won't fight for this when an election is on the line._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
