Obama plans to halt future weapons programs, disarm our nuclear program and protect us.

[billvon 3,008]

>I would say you spend 30x more then Canada because instead
>of defending yourself, you happily go and invade countries...

Yep.

Reagan-era conservatives often refer to "starving the beast" - reducing taxes so that the government "loses weight." Perhaps it's time to do that with our military. Make sure the military has enough money to do its stated job (defense of the USA) well, and no more. Turn off the endless-taxpayer-money spigot and see how our priorities change.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Canada happily benefits from the US being it's only land neighbor. It doesn't take much of a defense (one might question the need for any) when you have the arctic waters and the world superpower protecting your borders.

There is no doubt that Canada benefits from its asymmetrical position in Norad and Nato. To say we need no defense however, is false. During the cold war that was probably true, however it is not reasonable to think that the US would defend our interests in the Arctic. A few years ago we sent our navy out to defend our fishing interests against Spain. Would the Americans done that for us? No.
Our participation rate in NA defense has a very real effect upon all other aspects of our relationship with US. Co-dependence is the greatest contributor to good relations there is. If Canada decreased it's participation rate it would cause headaches in the pentagon. If Canada decreases it's international commitments it will cause problems at the state department. Politicians always claim that trade and defence issues are not linked between us. Everyone understands that that is complete bullshit.
If you would ask Canadians what our number one defensive risk is I think you would find a large contingint for "protecting our fresh water supplies from the Americans." Could we stop a determined attack from the Americans? No, no one on the planet can. Can we make it very expensive? perhaps. National defense has more functions than protection from invasion.

[GQ_jumper 4]

Once again you completely miss the point I was trying to get across, there's no point in trying to communicate with you anymore, you're filled with so much blind hate that you can't see anything that doesn't fall in line with your views.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Amazon 7]

Would you like some cheese with that whine there Buckaroo????

[nerdgirl 0]

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Canada happily benefits from the US being it's only land neighbor. It doesn't take much of a defense (one might question the need for any) when you have the arctic waters and the world superpower protecting your borders.

There is no doubt that Canada benefits from its asymmetrical position in Norad and Nato.

Emphasizing your point from a slightly different angle: Among the US, Canada, and UK there are many 'special relationships,' particularly on defense & intelligence issues - both historical and practical. For example, the CANUKUS Tripartite Agreements. The CANUKUS for chemical and biological defense dates back to the 1940s and is very robust and active today.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[kelpdiver 2]

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Canada happily benefits from the US being it's only land neighbor. It doesn't take much of a defense (one might question the need for any) when you have the arctic waters and the world superpower protecting your borders.

There is no doubt that Canada benefits from its asymmetrical position in Norad and Nato. To say we need no defense however, is false. During the cold war that was probably true, however it is not reasonable to think that the US would defend our interests in the Arctic. A few years ago we sent our navy out to defend our fishing interests against Spain. Would the Americans done that for us? No.
Our participation rate in NA defense has a very real effect upon all other aspects of our relationship with US. Co-dependence is the greatest contributor to good relations there is. If Canada decreased it's participation rate it would cause headaches in the pentagon. If Canada decreases it's international commitments it will cause problems at the state department. Politicians always claim that trade and defence issues are not linked between us. Everyone understands that that is complete bullshit.
If you would ask Canadians what our number one defensive risk is I think you would find a large contingint for "protecting our fresh water supplies from the Americans." Could we stop a determined attack from the Americans? No, no one on the planet can. Can we make it very expensive? perhaps. National defense has more functions than protection from invasion.

good stuff there, Andrew.

The water wars is an interesting question for the latter part of the century, blunted by the fact that desalination works, just costs money. So the US coasts have options. It's the interior when the crops are grown that would be at risk, but still seems easier to buy water via a pipeline from Canada if that's the best source. Invading and building a pipeline that is vunerable to sabotage seems too difficult.

[tkhayes 348]

not at all heat of the moment - if the USA spent less time pissing off the rest of the world - we might not actually need the military.

[tkhayes 348]

I did not say the quote you pasted in my name - please do not do that.

I am not going back to Canada - and recently, my last two trips to the hospital, I waited 3.5 hours each time, and I pay for my healthcare (dearly). BTW, I paid less in taxes in Canada than I pay for health insurance here.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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The water wars is an interesting question for the latter part of the century, blunted by the fact that desalination works, just costs money. So the US coasts have options. It's the interior when the crops are grown that would be at risk, but still seems easier to buy water via a pipeline from Canada if that's the best source. Invading and building a pipeline that is vulnerable to sabotage seems too difficult.

Currently not for sale at any price. It is a very emotional issue up here. The feeling is that what is an economic issue when we are talking about water for crops and industry would become a defense issue once American citizens start drinking it and depending on it for their lives. Would the US invade Canada to secure water to support ranchers in Wyoming? Unlikely. Would they invade to end a dispute that threatened the lives of thousands of people in the Los Angeles basin during the dry season? Unquestionably, yes they would.
There are no inter-provincial water transfers and intra-provincial transfers across watersheds are treated with grave distrust. They are currently building a 24" pipeline between the town to my west and the village to my east due to dry conditions to the east. This will move a very small amount of water from the Athabasca-MacKenzie system (Beaufort sea) to the North Saskachewan system (Hudson's Bay). The environmental ground work was enormous even though virtually none of the water will ever get to the river.

[kelpdiver 2]

LA would never rely on water from Canada. It would have to be in the interior, and given the current water supplies there, I think it's the crops that would be at risk, not people in cities like Chicago or St Louis have have water next to them.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

That all depends on how bad the water shortage gets in the next fifty years or so.

[StreetScooby 5]

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not at all heat of the moment - if the USA spent less time pissing off the rest of the world - we might not actually need the military.

I've met many people who have met you personally. They all have nothing but glowing words to say about you.

I have never met you personally. I'm starting to see you as an idealist. If so, good thing you're living here. Actually, good thing you're living here, anyway. You're clearly having a seriously positive effect on many peoples' lives.

Please don't ever forget. The USA actually spends more time defending the world, than pissing it off.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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I did not say the quote you pasted in my name - please do not do that.

I could say... "Then properly quote your sources", but I won't.

We are all engines of karma

[tkhayes 348]

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I have never met you personally. I'm starting to see you as an idealist. If so, good thing you're living here. Actually, good thing you're living here, anyway. You're clearly having a seriously positive effect on many peoples' lives.

Please don't ever forget. The USA actually spends more time defending the world, than pissing it off.

Yes, I am an idealist - (you make that sound like it is a bad thing) - I am also a realist, and if you really knew me, a pretty practical guy. We just disagree. I have seen a lot of the world and lived a generation in each of 2 countries, which gives me perspective on the 'greener grass' on many issues.

Idealism is what gives people VISION and hope. Practicality is how close you can get to that vision - not an excuse to discard it because it looks like it might be a difficult path.

The USA is a great country. The current government has fucked it up beyond recognition and done damage that will take generations to repair. As far as being a 'defender' of the world - yes perhaps at one time, earlier in my life, that was the case. Today we are the instigator, not the defender. We start wars then abuse our right to stay there./ We justify stomping all over the Constitution that Americans hold so dearly by limiting the rights of ordinary citizens in this less and less free country.

They do little (lately) to look after AMERICANS, but do plenty to spend your and my money on the military and large corporations, which are slowly becoming one and the same. (Bad for Americans in general)

And they use fear to get what they want - Actually Bush uses and abuses whatever the fuck he wants to get what he wants, and no one has the juice it seems (Congress) to stand up to him - sad for a so-called democracy.

So if that makes me an 'idealist' then geez - shame on me.....

TK

[mnealtx 0]

What makes you an idealist is that you think the abuses you mention have all been in the last seven years...or so it appears by your postings.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

The Bush Doctrine is something Americans will have to live down for a few generations to come.


But your Defender of the rePUBICan Right status prevents you from seeing that.

[mnealtx 0]

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The Bush Doctrine is something Americans will have to live down for a few generations to come.

As is Clintons.

Quote

But your Defender of the rePUBICan Right status prevents you from seeing that.

Look in the mirror lately? You've got the closest thing to a terminal case of BDS as I've ever seen, except maybe THIS guy. How many friends have you driven away over the last several years?

I don't even try to debate with you anymore, Jeanne, because the bile and hate that you spew completely drown out the GOOD part of any message you might have.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

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I don't even try to debate with you anymore, Jeanne, because the bile and hate that you spew completely drown out the GOOD part of any message you might have.

Ah yes.. taken right from RIGHT WING RADIO....

I love how the fringe right latched onto that categorization.. and you guys are STILL spouting it...Supporting an unjust and unneeded war seems to be filled with a WHOLE lot of hate.. you can take your mirror and go ogle yourself and Marc


I have not lost anyone I would consider to be a friend because of my pointing out the flys in yalls ointment you are trying to slather all over the American people.

[mnealtx 0]

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Quote

I don't even try to debate with you anymore, Jeanne, because the bile and hate that you spew completely drown out the GOOD part of any message you might have.

Ah yes.. taken right from RIGHT WING RADIO....

I love how the fringe right latched onto that categorization.. and you guys are STILL spouting it...Supporting an unjust and unneeded war seems to be filled with a WHOLE lot of hate.. you can take your mirror and go ogle yourself and Marc

Thanks for proving (yet again) my point that you quoted above.

Quote

I have not lost anyone I would consider to be a friend because of my pointing out the flys in yalls ointment you are trying to slather all over the American people.

And what about the ones you DID lose, Jeanne? Are they no longer important (or no longer your friends) because they held a different viewpoint?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jcd11235 0]

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not at all heat of the moment - if the USA spent less time pissing off the rest of the world - we might not actually need the military.

I generally agree. While I don't think we could completely eliminate the need for the military, implementing a sound foreign policy would allow us to downsize it significantly, ideally to the extent of no standing army, just as the Founding Fathers intended.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[StreetScooby 5]

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Yes, I am an idealist - (you make that sound like it is a bad thing)

It's not a bad thing, especially when you actually have a positive impact on peoples' lives. I think that's wonderful.

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The current government has fucked it up

Agreed. And badly so. Bush should have listened to Colin Powell. I'd vote Powell as President in a heart beat.

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Today we are the instigator, not the defender.

So, over 3000 moms and dads died in my country on 11-Sep-2001, and we're the instigator? Just because these Americans went to work that day, to provide for themselves and their family, they died. And they died because an ongoing virulent evil culture produced the men who killed them. That virulent evil culture deliberately produced these men, over a period of decades. And then, the rich people in that virulent evil culture funded these men to go and kill those moms and dads. For no other reason than they were Americans.

We are in a culture clash. This ongoing virulent evil culture, commonly referred to as Islam, has a serious element who are trying to kill my culture.

In times of conflict, there needs to be a clear winner. End of story. Over the last 150+ years, that's been the USA. I hope it stays that way for a long time to come.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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implementing a sound foreign policy would allow us to downsize it significantly, ideally to the extent of no standing army,

So, you actually think the world is full of rational people who can play well together?

We are all engines of karma

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

The USA is a great country. The current government has fucked it up beyond recognition and done damage that will take generations to repair. As far as being a 'defender' of the world - yes perhaps at one time, earlier in my life, that was the case. Today we are the instigator, not the defender. We start wars then abuse our right to stay there./ We justify stomping all over the Constitution that Americans hold so dearly by limiting the rights of ordinary citizens in this less and less free country.

They do little (lately) to look after AMERICANS, but do plenty to spend your and my money on the military and large corporations, which are slowly becoming one and the same. (Bad for Americans in general)

And they use fear to get what they want - Actually Bush uses and abuses whatever the fuck he wants to get what he wants, and no one has the juice it seems (Congress) to stand up to him - sad for a so-called democracy.

So if that makes me an 'idealist' then geez - shame on me.

+1 Well said.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

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Quote

The Bush Doctrine is something Americans will have to live down for a few generations to come.

As is Clintons.

I hate to admit it, but you're right. People all around the world will be making fun of us for years to come because we don't consider a blow job sex.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[downwardspiral 0]

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Quote

I don't even try to debate with you anymore, Jeanne, because the bile and hate that you spew completely drown out the GOOD part of any message you might have.

Ah yes.. taken right from RIGHT WING RADIO....

I love how the fringe right latched onto that categorization.. and you guys are STILL spouting it...Supporting an unjust and unneeded war seems to be filled with a WHOLE lot of hate.. you can take your mirror and go ogle yourself and Marc


I have not lost anyone I would consider to be a friend because of my pointing out the flys in yalls ointment you are trying to slather all over the American people.

He has a point. As a bystander, your posts seem to have a sharp bitter edge to them. Sadly we all might actually learn from eachother if we could avoid making these debates a personal matter. But then again this wouldn't be speaker's corner if we learned stuff!

www.FourWheelerHB.com