Obama plans to halt future weapons programs, disarm our nuclear program and protect us.

[kallend 2,029]

Quote

So, the gov is doing me a favor by allowing me to keep my own money?

No - the tax revenues belong to the government, not the person who paid the tax.

Given the size of the deficit, it is obvious that on average, Americans are paying far less than cost for the services they demand and receive.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[TankBuster 0]

They're not tax revenues if I never paid them. We were referencing voting for favors - tax cuts.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

So, the gov is doing me a favor by allowing me to keep my own money?

No - the tax revenues belong to the government, not the person who paid the tax.

Given the size of the deficit, it is obvious that on average, 1/4 of Americans are paying far less or nothing than cost for the services they (those 1/4 demand and receive.

Fixed it for you

even though most of your post is bs to begin with

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,008]

> They're not tax revenues if I never paid them.

But they are your debts if your government spent the money.

[TankBuster 0]

Yep that's why I keep trying to get them to do less, and spend less. They just don't listen very well.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[billvon 3,008]

> Yep that's why I keep trying to get them to do less, and spend less.

We've had this discussion before. You want the government to spend more in Iraq, and are opposed to any reduction in expenditures there. As long as people like you are around, we will keep spending more and more money.

People like to blame the liberals, the conservatives, the democrats, the muslims etc for every problem they have - high taxes, fear, loss of rights, healthcare problems etc. Want to find the real culprit? All you need is a mirror.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

> Yep that's why I keep trying to get them to do less, and spend less.

We've had this discussion before. You want the government to spend more in Iraq, and are opposed to any reduction in expenditures there. As long as people like you are around, we will keep spending more and more money.

People like to blame the liberals, the conservatives, the democrats, the muslims etc for every problem they have - high taxes, fear, loss of rights, healthcare problems etc. Want to find the real culprit? All you need is a mirror.

You are a master twister I will have to give you that.

As for the spending, yes both sides can shoulder much blame but your Iraq example is pure bunk
I am not arguing the money but, the majority of the crap most conservatives rail about are the take it from the people and give it way social programs that have failed to do what was promise for the last 40 years. NEA should go away for example as well as the federal arts types of programs.

Ya, a mirror, my mirror needs to be cloned and given to many of you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[TankBuster 0]

Yes, Bill, we have. But you're wrong. Entitlement spending is one of largest components of federal spending, and my vote is that it go away entirely. Most government functions are best accomplished at the state and local level. It's more efficient. It's called Federalism, and is what the Founders intended.

I did go look in the mirror. Damn I get better lookin' every day !

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[billvon 3,008]

>but your Iraq example is pure bunk

=================
Cost of Iraq war could surpass $1 trillion
Estimates vary, but all agree price is far higher than initially expected

By Martin Wolk
Chief economics correspondent
updated 5:25 p.m. PT, Fri., March. 17, 2006

One thing is certain about the Iraq war: It has cost a lot more than advertised. In fact, the tab grows by at least $200 million each and every day.

In the months leading up to the launch of the war three years ago, few Bush administration officials were willing to comment publicly on the potential costs to the United States. After all, no cost would have been too high if the United States faced an imminent threat from an Iraq armed with weapons of mass destruction, the war's stated justification.

In any event, most estimates put forward by White House officials in 2002 and 2003 were relatively low compared with the nation's gross domestic product, the size of the federal budget or the cost of past wars.

White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsey was the exception to the rule, offering an "upper bound" estimate of $100 billion to $200 billion in a September 2002 interview with The Wall Street Journal. That figure raised eyebrows at the time, although Lindsey argued the cost was small, adding, "The successful prosecution of the war would be good for the economy.”

U.S. direct spending on the war in Iraq already has surpassed the upper bound of Lindsey's upper bound, and most economists attribute billions more in indirect costs to the war effort. Even if the U.S. exits Iraq within another three years, total direct and indirect costs to U.S. taxpayers will likely by more than $400 billion, and one estimate puts the total economic impact at up to $2 trillion.
==========================

>I am not arguing the money . . .

Ah, so it's NOT pure bunk!

>the majority of the crap most conservatives rail about are the take it
>from the people and give it way social programs that have failed to do
>what was promise for the last 40 years.

You want to end a failed program, others want to end a failed war - and you are just as willing to compromise as they are. Take a good look in that mirror.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>you want to end a failed program, others want to end a failed war -

cool, let both sides win, cut taxes, fin

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,008]

>Entitlement spending is one of largest components of federal
>spending, and my vote is that it go away entirely.

Of course. And others want to end the failed Iraq war and end that half trillion dollar drain. But you will fight them tooth and nail on that - just as they will fight you to keep their favorite program.

Like I said, as long as people like you get their way, we will continue to grow the government.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>but your Iraq example is pure bunk

=================
Cost of Iraq war could surpass $1 trillionSO has every other program the government ever run! bull shit point
Estimates vary, but all agree price is far higher than initially expected

By Martin Wolk
Chief economics correspondent
updated 5:25 p.m. PT, Fri., March. 17, 2006

One thing is certain about the Iraq war: It has cost a lot more than advertised. In fact, the tab grows by at least $200 million each and every day.

In the months leading up to the launch of the war three years ago, few Bush administration officials were willing to comment publicly on the potential costs to the United States. After all, no cost would have been too high if the United States faced an imminent threat from an Iraq armed with weapons of mass destruction, the war's stated justification.

In any event, most estimates put forward by White House officials in 2002 and 2003 were relatively low compared with the nation's gross domestic product, the size of the federal budget or the cost of past wars.

White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsey was the exception to the rule, offering an "upper bound" estimate of $100 billion to $200 billion in a September 2002 interview with The Wall Street Journal. That figure raised eyebrows at the time, although Lindsey argued the cost was small, adding, "The successful prosecution of the war would be good for the economy.”

U.S. direct spending on the war in Iraq already has surpassed the upper bound of Lindsey's upper bound, and most economists attribute billions more in indirect costs to the war effort. Even if the U.S. exits Iraq within another three years, total direct and indirect costs to U.S. taxpayers will likely by more than $400 billion, and one estimate puts the total economic impact at up to $2 trillion.
==========================

>I am not arguing the money . . .

Ah, so it's NOT pure bunk!

>the majority of the crap most conservatives rail about are the take it
>from the people and give it way social programs that have failed to do
>what was promise for the last 40 years.

You want to end a failed program, others want to end a failed war - and you are just as willing to compromise as they are. Take a good look in that mirror.

Failed war???. Dont see much in the news anymore, must be failing

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,008]

>cool, let both sides win, cut taxes, fin

If the order is "cut spending" then "cut taxes" I'm in.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>cool, let both sides win, cut taxes, fin

If the order is "cut spending" then "cut taxes" I'm in.

Me too

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

that is no longer the funding method for schools. Money goes to the general fund, then back out to the schools.

Where is the lotto money going, especially in New York state? Is state funding transparent? Where do you look to find that?

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

It is a poor investment for society to burden their youth with getting an education and spending their first 10 years of working to pay it off, when all we preach is saving for retirement.

The company I work for recently went through a hiring phase for new college graduates. I looked at all of them, each an Ivy league graduate, and thought to myself "How much money do you owe?" A friend of mine, who is doing very well there, is 28 and went to SUNY Buffalo. He's making more money than they'll ever make.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

make those BoD's more responsible

True dat.

We are all engines of karma

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

As for the spending, yes both sides can shoulder much blame but your Iraq example is pure bunk
I am not arguing the money but, the majority of the crap most conservatives rail about are the take it from the people and give it way social programs that have failed to do what was promise for the last 40 years. NEA should go away for example as well as the federal arts types of programs.

If we eliminated the NEA, how many days would that money fund the war in Iraq? They have requested 176M for next year, so not even one day of war.

So it seems like your mirror is bigger than bill's mirror. A hell of a lot bigger.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

I understand you want to take of the government to take care of people, but that is NOT it's function. You're talking about all these material items or benefits being "rights" and it just doesn't work that way.

Agreed, very much so.

We are all engines of karma

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

As for the spending, yes both sides can shoulder much blame but your Iraq example is pure bunk
I am not arguing the money but, the majority of the crap most conservatives rail about are the take it from the people and give it way social programs that have failed to do what was promise for the last 40 years. NEA should go away for example as well as the federal arts types of programs.

If we eliminated the NEA, how many days would that money fund the war in Iraq? They have requested 176M for next year, so not even one day of war.

So it seems like your mirror is bigger than bill's mirror. A hell of a lot bigger.

National Education Association

or what ever that education shit house in Washington is.....

and what the hell does that matter anyway?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Yes, Bill, we have. But you're wrong. Entitlement spending is one of largest components of federal spending, and my vote is that it go away entirely.

SS and Medicare run in the black currently. Even ignoring our obligations here, if you eliminated them the current deficit would go up. They are not the current cause of our spending woes. SS has been the primary funder of the Iraqi war.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Quote

Reagan's mantra, peace through strength, showed its truth.

I see - the Berlin wall fell because of our superior nuclear strength? Thanks for the history lesson, but I think it was economics that did that.

And in the prenuclear era, a desparity in economics resulted in war.

If your goal is to save money, some nukes is cheaper than a lot of nukes, or no nukes. The latter is by far the most expensive choice.

[TankBuster 0]

Quote

But you will fight them tooth and nail on that

Wrong again, Bill.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[billvon 3,008]

>Wrong again, Bill.

So you are willing to cut off funding for the Iraq war? If so, my apologies for my misinterpretation.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

National Education Association

or what ever that education shit house in Washington is.....

and what the hell does that matter anyway?

NEA is National Endowment of the Arts - you know, the guys who give tax dollars to shit (literally) art. Perhaps a complete waste, but you can't equate their level of waste with the level of waste that is Iraq II post 2004. If we had dumped that half or full trillion dollars into energy research, the reason for the war might have disappeared by now or shortly after.

If one wants to be serious about attacking the deficit, it's obvious that you start with the big items. Defense in general, and Iraq in particular are obvious targets. Entitlements are much harder given that they have revenue. And then you're left with small fry.