jcd11235 0 #176 June 27, 2008 QuoteOur health care is pretty good, as it is. Do you mean cheaper health care? Let's take out the middle man that brings no value to the process. Pretty good is subjective. Our relative_quality:cost ratio isn't very high for a developed nation. QuoteQuote Better education. Critical in my opinion. But, why is the current education system failing? Teachers must cope with disruptive kids from dysfunctional families in the classroom, thus catering to the lowest common denominator. What do we do about that? A shortage of teachers is a major contributing factor. We don't generally pay our teachers enough to attract enough qualified applicants. QuoteQuote Less military. (more money to spend on the other programs). As I've said several times now, let western democracies pay their own way. Huge amount of money WE can save simply doing that. We could also stop funding ludicrous programs like the missile defense system. Downsizing our standing army would be another good step. QuoteSpeaking of this, why aren't the floods in the midwest on the front page every day"? Because those people are taking care of themselves. It's getting plenty of news coverage. Fortunately, the federal government is not in denial about the severity of the flooding, so the media doesn't need to hammer the point home. QuoteBecause we're spending too much "defense" money protecting those other western democracies that really need to pay their own way. That is only one of many places our defense budget needs to be reduced. QuoteAs Americans, you should work and feed not only yourself, but your family. Agreed, and when that doesn't work, there should be a safety net in place. QuoteDon't tax me to feed somebody else's family. I have my own family to feed. Living in a developed country has its price. QuoteAs Americans, you should work and take care of your family. Don't tax me to pay health care for somebody else's family. I have my own family to provide health care for. Considering how the cost:quality ratio of our healthcare compares to other developed countries with socialized healthcare, your logic seems a bit off. It appears that a partially socialized system would bring improvements to that cost:quality ratio. QuoteWe're capitalists. Not socialists. Not communists. Capitalism is the best system out there. A mixed economy is superior to either pure capitalism or pure socialism. Both ideologies have their strengths and weaknesses. As a nation, we should be intelligent and objective enough to take advantage of both types of systems in order to maximize the strengths and minimize the weaknesses.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #177 June 27, 2008 QuoteSort of like the "it's just a blowjob" mantra when everyone knows it was about the perjury. Especially those who ignore the fact that Clinton was impeached and acquitted on perjury charges. Perhaps you missed it.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #178 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteSort of like the "it's just a blowjob" mantra when everyone knows it was about the perjury. Especially those who ignore the fact that Clinton was impeached and acquitted on perjury charges. Perhaps you missed it. Nope, I didn't miss it - I don't lie about it, either.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #179 June 27, 2008 I question that the US education system is poor for those who seek it. This is especially true at the university level. The US is a destination country for foreign students. I can't blame the system for parents that just don't give a shit. Similar problem for health care - the county is a leader, but many of the citizens can't be bothered. Maybe the gas problems will get people out of their cars more, though they'll still be eating crap. --- So are these problems? If you believe in taking care of yourself, not so much. If you believe the nation is responsible for taking care of everyone, yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #180 June 27, 2008 QuoteSimilar problem for health care - the county is a leader, but many of the citizens can't be bothered. The citizens of those socialized healthcare countries can certainly be bothered to come to the States for treatment.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #181 June 27, 2008 QuoteI question that the US education system is poor for those who seek it. This is especially true at the university level. I was referring to the primary and secondary education system. Having said that, there's lots of room for improvement in the university system as well, at least in Florida. QuoteSimilar problem for health care - the county is a leader … When it comes to healthcare, the US leads only in high price per capita, not quality. QuoteSo are these problems? If you believe in taking care of yourself, not so much. If you believe the nation is responsible for taking care of everyone, yes. I'm much closer to the former than the latter, but I still see it as a problem.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #182 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteSimilar problem for health care - the county is a leader, but many of the citizens can't be bothered. The citizens of those socialized healthcare countries can certainly be bothered to come to the States for treatment. People from the US also go elsewhere for treatment.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #183 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteSimilar problem for health care - the county is a leader, but many of the citizens can't be bothered. The citizens of those socialized healthcare countries can certainly be bothered to come to the States for treatment. People from the US also go elsewhere for treatment. Agreed - but it's generally NOT because they can't get treated at all - see CanuckinUSA's post on that in another thread. I've provided links to several op-eds about it as well.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #184 June 27, 2008 QuoteAgreed - but it's generally NOT because they can't get treated at all … You're right. It's because they can get cheaper/better care elsewhere.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #185 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteAgreed - but it's generally NOT because they can't get treated at all … You're right. It's because they can get cheaper/better care elsewhere. Cheaper, I'll give you. The other is more due to new/experimental treatments that haven't made it Stateside, IMO.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #186 June 27, 2008 QuoteCheaper, I'll give you. The other is more due to new/experimental treatments that haven't made it Stateside, IMO. Or it might have to do with the fact that the US has the highest per capita healthcare costs in the world, but not the highest quality care.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #187 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteCheaper, I'll give you. The other is more due to new/experimental treatments that haven't made it Stateside, IMO. Or it might have to do with the fact that the US has the highest per capita healthcare costs in the world, but not the highest quality care. People go elsewhere for cheaper, and on occasion because the FDA hasn't approved the process yet. I went to Canada for LASIK- the laser had just been approved by the FDA, but had been used for a few years in Vancouver already. (and was much cheaper to boot) I don't think you'll find many circumstances of people going elsewhere for better care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #188 June 27, 2008 Quote QuoteSimilar problem for health care - the county is a leader … When it comes to healthcare, the US leads only in high price per capita, not quality. there is no question that the US is a leader in dealing with acute medical conditions. Stents, drugs, procedures. Where else would you want to go if you had a heart attack or got shot? And how many other big clusters of biotech/pharma are there? CA has two alone - SF Area (surrounding Cal, UCSF, and Stanfurd) and San Diego. Quit your america bitching where it's unwarranted. It's failings are on the chronic health care side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #189 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteCheaper, I'll give you. The other is more due to new/experimental treatments that haven't made it Stateside, IMO. Or it might have to do with the fact that the US has the highest per capita healthcare costs in the world, but not the highest quality care. Which STILL doesn't explain why the world's rich come to the States for care.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #190 June 27, 2008 QuoteIt's failings are on the chronic health care side. Agreed. Too many people using the ER for minor care that they could/should go to a local doctor for.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #191 June 27, 2008 Quote Quit your america bitching where it's unwarranted. Quit your nationalism where it's unwarranted. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #192 June 27, 2008 That is not going to happen until immigration gets under control. Last time I was in the emergency room it was "Little Mexico."The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #193 June 27, 2008 QuoteWhich STILL doesn't explain why the world's rich come to the States for care. Most likely because the US doesn't have the world's worst healthcare, either. It's better than some countries'. Also, America's very best doctors are better than average in terms of quality. America's private system ensures that the rich can access many of these doctors. There's lots of reasons why some people would come to and some people would leave America for better care.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #194 June 27, 2008 >Agreed. Too many people using the ER for minor care that they >could/should go to a local doctor for. Definitely. Problem is, doctors tend to turn people away when they can't pay. So for some, their only option is an ER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #195 June 27, 2008 Quote>Agreed. Too many people using the ER for minor care that they >could/should go to a local doctor for. Definitely. Problem is, doctors tend to turn people away when they can't pay. So for some, their only option is an ER. Duly noted and agreed in our other discussions on this. However, when (as illustrated by Doc Linz) people with $100 fake fingernails and a $200 cell phone are going to the ER because they 'can't pay', that's a problem. You advocated a 'base' amount of gov't sponsored healthcare, with optional insurance over the top of that. I could support that idea, dependent on what the 'base' is covering....and provided that the person HAD to use a local doctor or PCC for the benefit rather than clogging up the ER.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,028 #196 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteCheaper, I'll give you. The other is more due to new/experimental treatments that haven't made it Stateside, IMO. Or it might have to do with the fact that the US has the highest per capita healthcare costs in the world, but not the highest quality care. Which STILL doesn't explain why the world's rich come to the States for care. Funny, London has a bunch of clinics that cater to the very wealthy who could easily come to the US if they wished. I guess the US's very LOW rankings in infant mortality and life expectancy are because we just don't have enough rich people.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #197 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteIt's failings are on the chronic health care side. Agreed. Too many people using the ER for minor care that they could/should go to a local doctor for. That's not the concern I'm talking about. ER is acute care. We can save people having heart attacks, but we're not doing well at preventing the cardiac incident from happening. Same for obesity, high blood pressure. Back issues, and pain relief in general - we medicate, seemingly in place of addressing the cause. The AMA and co has worked very hard to keep the chiropracters and accupunturists down as a form of competition. Most of the health metrics are based on chronic care, hence our mediocre standing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #198 June 27, 2008 While I don't disagree with your basic point, it's NOT the government's fault that we (in general) are too lazy to get off our fat asses and exercise (which alleviates the cardiac/BP issues and probably helps with the others as well). I'm not sure where you're living, but I see plenty of chiro and other "non-traditional" practices in Texas.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #199 June 27, 2008 Quote I'm not sure where you're living, but I see plenty of chiro and other "non-traditional" practices in Texas. They exist, and have growing support from HMO and other insurance plans, but it wasn't very long ago that the AMA was actively calling them quacks and the perception that these alternative medicines are bullshit still persists in the population as a result. (well, that and the fact that there are some shady outfits) The more cynical would believe that big medicine doesn't really want to solve chronic problems when they could instead sell a continuous supply of coping drugs/services. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #200 June 28, 2008 QuoteQuote I'm not sure where you're living, but I see plenty of chiro and other "non-traditional" practices in Texas. They exist, and have growing support from HMO and other insurance plans, but it wasn't very long ago that the AMA was actively calling them quacks and the perception that these alternative medicines are bullshit still persists in the population as a result. (well, that and the fact that there are some shady outfits) The more cynical would believe that big medicine doesn't really want to solve chronic problems when they could instead sell a continuous supply of coping drugs/services. From that persepective, I see your point and to an extent agree with it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
