Iran Test-Fires 9 Missiles to Show 'Might'

[kelpdiver 2]

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1. Iran has no history of a preemptive attacks Israel invented them and has threatened to do so again.

2. Iran has no troops around us and has takin no action against the US, Yet Iran is surrounded by US forces.
3. Iran has oil which the US wants, if we can lie once to start a war what makes you think we do not do it again.

4. Iran has no history of invading another country both Israel and the US tend to have no issue with that. They start a war once every few years it seems.

As for what has been said I truly hope you know there is a big difference between words being spoken, and actual bombs being dropped.

Given recent history, the Jews aren't known for presuming that words won't hurt them. They tend to presume that holocaust deniers that threaten their existence actually mean it.

That's true in the US too. The courts have found that anti-abortionists can't put up websites with hit lists of baby killing doctors.

Darius - the thrust of your argument is the US and Israel are bad people. It's arguable. What's striking is your refusal to acknowledge that Iran has contributed greatly to this current state of near hostility.

In response to your points:
1) Iran doesn't invade, they just finance terrorist groups (or if you prefer, nationless militant freedom fighters) to do the violence for them.
2) Around versus next to is semantics, no more. It was Iran that has threatened to bomb US installations in the last week. I don't recall any such threats from Bush of late.
3) There are dozens of oil producing countries we haven't invaded. Only one we did, and it was a continuation of a conflict that nation initiated.
4) You keep making these claims, but never back them up when challenged. So put up or shut up - how many wars have the US and Israel started in the past several decades to justify your once every few years claim? List them - you'll be challenged on most.

[mnealtx 0]

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>Good thing McCain hasn't spent the last 20 years attending Hagee's church . . .

Unfortunately for McCain, he actively sought out Hagee's endorsement and supported the preacher _very_ strongly.

For what... 2 months, until he found out some of the other things Hagee had said? (admittedly, his staff should have done more research).

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I guess he believed in him before he didn't

McCain didn't marry in Hagee's church, nor spend 20 years listening to Hagee's sermons.

Shall I make a list of some of the quotes from Rev. Jeremiah "God Damn America" Wright and Father Michael "He's stealing my show" Pfleger?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Darius11 12]

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Darius - the thrust of your argument is the US and Israel are bad people. It's arguable. What's striking is your refusal to acknowledge that Iran has contributed greatly to this current state of near hostility.

No my argument is that we do things that are much worst and cause much more people to lose homes and lives and still think we should sit on our high horse thinking we are superior and the bringers of liberty. I think we are a bully who only cares for it self much like a corporation with an army and I think that needs to change for our own survival.

Isreal Is an illegal state off course we only like to give the UN legitimacy when they agree with us. Yet another sign of hypocrisy.

What I say and have always said is the same standard must be kept for all. You can’t say killing is wrong but ok when we do it. Surly you can see the flaw in that.

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1) Iran doesn't invade, they just finance terrorist groups (or if you prefer, nationless militant freedom fighters) to do the violence for them.

So do we. Why is it only wrong when they do it?

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2) Around versus next to is semantics, no more. It was Iran that has threatened to bomb US installations in the last week. I don't recall any such threats from Bush of late.

Wooooosh

Look at a map look where all our troops are. To the left to the right. How many Iranian troops are in Canada, or how many Iranians war ships are of our shore?

We traveled how many thousands of miles yet we are going to pretend they want to pick a fight?

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3) There are dozens of oil producing countries we haven't invaded. Only one we did, and it was a continuation of a conflict that nation initiated.

Yet no continuations of the war was mentioned in the UN only WMD and the threat of an eminent threat. Not to mention that members of the same organization have come forward since then to say it was all bulls hit the decision was made regardless of the facts. So we killed and murdered inocent people because are president wanted to and that’s some how ok and should be forgiven.

Can you think of any terrorist attack that destroyed a whole nation and cost hundreds of thousands of lives? Why is it ok when we do it how do you justify that?

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4) You keep making these claims, but never back them up when challenged. So put up or shut up - how many wars have the US and Israel started in the past several decades to justify your once every few years claim? List them - you'll be challenged on most.

I’ll mention them all and you will try to justify them.

Guess what a war is only justified when someone has attacked your land or your people, other then Afghanistan and the WW can you mention one war where the united states home land was attacked where we took defensive military action?

No we usually travel thousands of miles away from our boarders to start shit with people because we don’t want them to live a cretin way. How arrogant and close minded is that?

What gives us that right?

I can put up all you want its actually easy when historical facts back up my claims.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[jcd11235 0]

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There are dozens of oil producing countries we haven't invaded. Only one we did, and it was a continuation of a conflict that nation initiated.

What conflict would that be?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kelpdiver 2]

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1) Iran doesn't invade, they just finance terrorist groups (or if you prefer, nationless militant freedom fighters) to do the violence for them.

So do we. Why is it only wrong when they do it?

The question was is Iran an aggressor with Israel, and is its threat to anniliate the Israelis credible, or just hot air. What the US does, or how bad it is, is not relevant.

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Wooooosh

Look at a map look where all our troops are. To the left to the right. How many Iranian troops are in Canada, or how many Iranians war ships are of our shore?

We traveled how many thousands of miles yet we are going to pretend they want to pick a fight?

Whoosh is the word alright. You're completely incapable of thinking about Iran in a non emotional manner.

Our troops are there because they're fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to stage an attack on Iran.

Iran's troops aren't here because they're not even capable of launching 4 missiles without having to (badly) doctor the evidence.

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I’ll mention them all and you will try to justify them.

But not surprisingly, you fail yet again to list even one.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Our troops are there because they're fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to stage an attack on Iran.

You don't think that besides being the place where Cheney sheathes his saber that it might have something to do with keeping the Strait of Hormuz open after an Israeli or US attack on Iran?

[Amazon 7]

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2. Iran has no troops around us and has takin no action against the US, Yet Iran is surrounded by US forces.

BZZZZZT wrong answer

Want to take a bet that there are already "troops" here in the US posing as green card carrying "students" or as naturalized Americans and awaiting their orders from their commanders in the "Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution ".

I guess the attack by Hezbollah paid for and supported by Iran against the Marine barracks in Beirut.. was not an attack. ONly a couple hundred Americans were killed

Oh and how many of your fellow Americans do you think have been killed by IED's built by Iran and smuggled into Iraq???

Yup.. real Peace loving folks there Darius......

[billvon 2,997]

>McCain didn't marry in Hagee's church, nor spend 20 years listening to Hagee's sermons.

And Obama did not actively solicit Wright's support.

[StreetScooby 5]

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And Obama did not actively solicit Wright's support.

He didn't need to. He just showed up every Sunday for 20 years.

We are all engines of karma

[billvon 2,997]

>He just showed up every Sunday for 20 years.

Ever gone to church regularly?

[rushmc 23]

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>He just showed up every Sunday for 20 years.

Ever gone to church regularly?

Yes, and I have twice left a parish BECAUSE of what was said on some Sundays

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[1969912 0]

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We'd be better off without the nuts from both groups.

Agree 100%

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[idrankwhat 0]

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2. Iran has no troops around us and has takin no action against the US, Yet Iran is surrounded by US forces.

BZZZZZT wrong answer

Not really. I can't argue with your paranoia but I can point out that we have two carrier groups on Iran's doorstep. Cheney and a number of core neocons are calling for a war with Iran. Israel is practicing and last month said that if we didn't attack that they would do it. To date we have yet to prove that Iran is doing anything illegal but we are seriously beating the war drums and the lame duck clock is ticking loudly. Iran is being difficult but they're not breaking any laws as far as I can tell. Posturing? Yes. But chest thumping in response to a threat is not illegal.

I think that the point that Darius is trying to make is that the US has attacked countries for far less than the threat that we currently pose to Iran. If Iran had missiles off our coast and a leader saying he was ready to push "the button" we'd have "preemptively retaliated" by now.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I think that the point that Darius is trying to make is that the US has attacked countries for far less than the threat that we currently pose to Iran. If Iran had missiles off our coast and a leader saying he was ready to push "the button" we'd have "preemptively retaliated" by now.

Indeed, we would. The benefit of being top dog. For quite a while, the world liked the US playing policeman. Now that they seem to believe otherwise- great. We can save money and go a more isolationist route...when pissant parties stop provoking fights. OTOH, I suspect the world will quickly demand our presence.

Darius won't agree that Iran is being belligerent in the matter. Seems true for you as well.

Ignoring right or wrong (something people here really need to learn to do), it's a curious act to provoke the bigger bullies who have shown a history of smacking such little bull terriers down. If a dog the size of a decent cat is nipping at your heals, do you feel sorry for it, or do you kick it?

[nerdgirl 0]

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Darius won't agree that Iran is being belligerent in the matter. Seems true for you as well.

Do you dispute that proxies for the US administration are behaving similarly, e.g., Michael Ledeen, "Time to Attack Iranian Terror Camps?":

"So says John Bolton, and he's right. As you know, I have been proposing this for years. I always thought it was only a matter of time before we were compelled to take this action, which is a legitimate form of self-defense. And while we're at it, we should do the same thing to the Syrian camps as well. It isn't 'sending a message,' it's acting to protect our guys by fighting back in the proxy war the mullahs have been waging since 1979. Faster, please?"

While officially he retired, ADM Fallon's (former CENTCOM commander) removal was largely attributed to his open criticism of the rhetoric of folks like Ledeen and others who advocate for military action.

VR/Marg

p.s. Yes, I am aware that Undersecretary of State William Burns is being dispatched to Iran as part of multilateral diplomatic efforts.

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[champu 1]

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1) Iran doesn't invade, they just finance terrorist groups (or if you prefer, nationless militant freedom fighters) to do the violence for them.

So do we. Why is it only wrong when they do it?

While Iran may have very well learned this strategy from the US and what we did to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, I wonder if they paid much attention to how that worked out for us in the long run...

I think we agree, though, that improved diplomacy with countries like Iran and Pakistan are needed to stop the support they provide to militant groups, not saber rattling. Interestingly, Iran may prove to be an easier nut to crack than Pakistan.

Call me crazy, but I'm hopeful of Robert Gates' abilities.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Darius won't agree that Iran is being belligerent in the matter. Seems true for you as well.

Do you dispute that proxies for the US administration are behaving similarly, e.g., Michael Ledeen,

I don't. I just want to know why Iran is getting a free pass from some. I believe they forced the situation. That leads to my repeated question, why piss off the US and Israel? I don't see the winning game theory there, unless all of the gains are domestic in nature. Me...I'd stop talking about killing Israel (never started) until I had real live nukes. Once I had a credible counterforce, I could be as big as asshole as I wanted.

[BClear 0]

Ok lets see here. We have a group of people who would have stated jee lets wait till we have proof of Hitler exterminating the Jews until we do something because the ONLY reason ANYONE could EVER have with developing NUCLEAR POWER in one of the most OIL RICH nations in the WORLD is purely peaceful. Give it a rest, life isn't fair, death isn't fair, and international politics sure as hell ain't fair but if you threaten an entire nation of people with extermination and start up a nuclear program at the same time your either an idiot or you want to experience a nuke firsthand. Hoping the man with the finger on the trigger knows when to pull. And here's to hoping Israel knows to pull the trigger sooner.

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

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2. Iran has no troops around us and has takin no action against the US, Yet Iran is surrounded by US forces.

BZZZZZT wrong answer

Want to take a bet that there are already "troops" here in the US posing as green card carrying "students" or as naturalized Americans and awaiting their orders from their commanders in the "Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution ".

Yeah in your fantasy land head there are Iranian sleeper cells everywhere which should really give us all some alarm bells to just ignore you.

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I guess the attack by Hezbollah paid for and supported by Iran against the Marine barracks in Beirut.. was not an attack. ONly a couple hundred Americans were killed

Good.

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Oh and how many of your fellow Americans do you think have been killed by IED's built by Iran and smuggled into Iraq???

YOU ARE IN THEIR land with the most advanced/powerful army in the world and you are trying to point the finger at Iran over who's the aggressor.

US soldiers deserve every IED they get when they invade other peoples lands.

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

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Ok lets see here. We have a group of people who would have stated jee lets wait till we have proof of Hitler exterminating the Jews until we do something because the ONLY reason ANYONE could EVER have with developing NUCLEAR POWER in one of the most OIL RICH nations in the WORLD is purely peaceful. Give it a rest, life isn't fair, death isn't fair, and international politics sure as hell ain't fair but if you threaten an entire nation of people with extermination and start up a nuclear program at the same time your either an idiot


It's very clear you are and not just from your lack of paragraph use.

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[ErricoMalatesta 0]

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In response to your points:
1) Iran doesn't invade, they just finance terrorist groups (or if you prefer, nationless militant freedom fighters) to do the violence for them.

They fund terrorist groups... ok and Israel and the US are terrorist states.

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2) Around versus next to is semantics, no more. It was Iran that has threatened to bomb US installations in the last week. I don't recall any such threats from Bush of late.

"NO THREATS ARE OFF THE TABLE" is an international crime that you have been spouting for over a year. Oh yeah and I almost forgot AGAIN that YOU HAVE INVADED THE COUNTRIES TO THEIR LEFT AND RIGHT and killed thousands of people.

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3) There are dozens of oil producing countries we haven't invaded. Only one we did, and it was a continuation of a conflict that nation initiated.

No, it was your fault and its clear you don't understand the last 40 years of Iraq/US relations.

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4) You keep making these claims, but never back them up when challenged. So put up or shut up - how many wars have the US and Israel started in the past several decades to justify your once every few years claim? List them - you'll be challenged on most.

In the past several decades?

Ok you invaded and decimated Indochina and Korea.

You setup death squads from El Salvador down to Panama.

You butchered tens of thousands of people in Nicaragua and were FOUND GUILTY and ignored the results of the ICJ and affiliates.

The list goes on but I have better things to do than explain your own countries history to someone who doesn't even understand events of the past couple of years such as Iran saying 'Zionism should be wiped from the pages of history' NOT 'Israel should be wiped off the map'.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Indeed, we would. The benefit of being top dog. For quite a while, the world liked the US playing policeman. Now that they seem to believe otherwise- great. We can save money and go a more isolationist route...when pissant parties stop provoking fights. OTOH, I suspect the world will quickly demand our presence.

The world is changing dramatically. We're still "top dog" at the moment but that's changing. If we continue our on our current path of poor education, over consumption and high debt then we're screwed. I'd be willing to bet that if we continue with the current trend of mortgaging our country to foreign interests that we'll be handing Taiwan over to China within a few years.

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Darius won't agree that Iran is being belligerent in the matter. Seems true for you as well.

I did acknowledge it. But I also pointed out that we may get the war that WE seem to want because we're pushing Iran into a corner, not because we're in danger. The UN and IAEA are doing pretty well. We should have listened to them with regard to Iraq. I'm willing to give them the reins on this one.

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If a dog the size of a decent cat is nipping at your heals, do you feel sorry for it, or do you kick it?

Whose yard am I in?

[warpedskydiver 0]

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In response to your points:
1) Iran doesn't invade, they just finance terrorist groups (or if you prefer, nationless militant freedom fighters) to do the violence for them.

They fund terrorist groups... ok and Israel and the US are terrorist states.

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2) Around versus next to is semantics, no more. It was Iran that has threatened to bomb US installations in the last week. I don't recall any such threats from Bush of late.

"NO THREATS ARE OFF THE TABLE" is an international crime that you have been spouting for over a year. Oh yeah and I almost forgot AGAIN that YOU HAVE INVADED THE COUNTRIES TO THEIR LEFT AND RIGHT and killed thousands of people.

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3) There are dozens of oil producing countries we haven't invaded. Only one we did, and it was a continuation of a conflict that nation initiated.

No, it was your fault and its clear you don't understand the last 40 years of Iraq/US relations.

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4) You keep making these claims, but never back them up when challenged. So put up or shut up - how many wars have the US and Israel started in the past several decades to justify your once every few years claim? List them - you'll be challenged on most.

In the past several decades?

Ok you invaded and decimated Indochina and Korea.

You setup death squads from El Salvador down to Panama.

You butchered tens of thousands of people in Nicaragua and were FOUND GUILTY and ignored the results of the ICJ and affiliates.

The list goes on but I have better things to do than explain your own countries history to someone who doesn't even understand events of the past couple of years such as Iran saying 'Zionism should be wiped from the pages of history' NOT 'Israel should be wiped off the map'.

I was going to refute your claims, and make your entire premise seem foolish, but you are doing a better job of it.

[Darius11 12]

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Ignoring right or wrong (something people here really need to learn to do),

Ignoring right or wrong? Then what are we debating?

I think we all understand that the US has the most powerful army, I think we know we have enough nukes to set the world a fire the one thing I am arguing is right and wrong.

I have even said before that if you believe that we are the ALPHA dog of the world and do what we want with only concern for our self then great you have it right. You will get no argument with me that we are the TOP DOG. What we are arguing or at least me and some others is that we are hypocrites. When we criticize Iran (for Ex.) and say they are a violent nation we are full of shit. That’s just crap to feed the sheep. The reality is we want control and when we want something we will make excuse, lie, and kill to get it.

So for me it is about discussing right and wrong. If your replay is fuck we do what we want because we can then there is no debate is there?


My problem is when you have people thinking somehow we are such better people and the concept that were the good guys and they’re the bad guys. Were the guys with the bigger guns simple as that. Please don’t come to me with the Bullshit line that we are spreading freedom. It’s all about the Benjamin’s always has been always will be. That’s what we are killing people for. To me that’s fucked up.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

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In response to your points:
1) Iran doesn't invade, they just finance terrorist groups (or if you prefer, nationless militant freedom fighters) to do the violence for them.

They fund terrorist groups... ok and Israel and the US are terrorist states.

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2) Around versus next to is semantics, no more. It was Iran that has threatened to bomb US installations in the last week. I don't recall any such threats from Bush of late.

"NO THREATS ARE OFF THE TABLE" is an international crime that you have been spouting for over a year. Oh yeah and I almost forgot AGAIN that YOU HAVE INVADED THE COUNTRIES TO THEIR LEFT AND RIGHT and killed thousands of people.

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3) There are dozens of oil producing countries we haven't invaded. Only one we did, and it was a continuation of a conflict that nation initiated.

No, it was your fault and its clear you don't understand the last 40 years of Iraq/US relations.

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4) You keep making these claims, but never back them up when challenged. So put up or shut up - how many wars have the US and Israel started in the past several decades to justify your once every few years claim? List them - you'll be challenged on most.

In the past several decades?

Ok you invaded and decimated Indochina and Korea.

You setup death squads from El Salvador down to Panama.

You butchered tens of thousands of people in Nicaragua and were FOUND GUILTY and ignored the results of the ICJ and affiliates.

The list goes on but I have better things to do than explain your own countries history to someone who doesn't even understand events of the past couple of years such as Iran saying 'Zionism should be wiped from the pages of history' NOT 'Israel should be wiped off the map'.

I was going to refute your claims, and make your entire premise seem foolish, but you are doing a better job of it.

Yeah in other words you can't.