friendstersux 0 #1 July 25, 2008 I just don't get it. NY Liberals, please clarify why you hate cops for curiousity sake. GUNFIRE IN HARLEM It seemed like a throwback to New York's bad old days of the '80s and early '90s: random shots ringing out, bodies dropping to the ground. Thankfully, no one died from Monday's hellish gunfire in Harlem. But six teens were left with bullet holes in them and another was stabbed - for reasons that remain unclear. If ever there was a case to be made for the NYPD's much-bashed stop-and-frisk policies, this is it. Consider: Cops arriving on the scene stopped a group of young black men who fit witnesses' descriptions of the perps. One youth bolted as the cops approached, tossing a gun as he ran. Police retrieved the weapon and eventually caught the boy, who turned out to be 15. He claimed he'd just found the gun. The NYPD, of course, is examining it to see if it was used in the shootings. But the key point is that the cops had uncovered a dangerous illegal weapon by stopping and confronting the group. And, indeed, such action is precisely what leads to fewer guns on New York's streets generally. Yet the NYPD has taken enormous heat over it - largely because those stopped are often minorities. Indeed, THE COP HATERS - THE NEW YORK CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION, in particular, backed by THE NEW YORK TIMES- claim such police stops are biased and constitute racial profiling. We wonder if the six Harlem teens hit by bullets agree with that. Or if they wish that police had stopped and frisked their assailants before the shootings. Bottom line: With more stops, not less, this tragedy might have been averted. Not that the NYPD-bashers care about that, of course. Link to this excerpt: Gunfire In HarlemDon't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #2 July 25, 2008 QuoteI just don't get it. Liberals, please clarify why you hate cops for curiousity sake. I'm a liberal. I like cops. Your question is now invalid. Next?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #3 July 25, 2008 Same. What's the issue again?Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymiles 3 #4 July 25, 2008 Since we're generalizing - why do conservatives hate the constitution? Also a ridiculous statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #5 July 25, 2008 QuoteI'm a liberal. I like cops. Your question is now invalid. Next? It's clearly stated in the article that the NY Civil Liberties Union are cop haters. How is that question invalid? I'm asking why are NY Liberals cop haters? Are Liberals from NY different from other states?Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #6 July 25, 2008 Quote (This post was edited by friendstersux on Jul 25, 2008, 12:59 PM) Nice try, cupcake. I'm also not an idiot. Edited to add (openly): Why are consevatives such revisionists? Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #7 July 25, 2008 QuoteAlso a ridiculous statement. Ain't nothing ridiculous about it. It's stated in the article that the NY Civil Liberties Union are cop haters. I would like to know why.Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friendstersux 0 #8 July 25, 2008 QuoteNice try, cupcake. I'm also not an idiot. I don't get what you're trying to say. I never called you an idiot. The article clearly states that the NY Civil Liberties Union are cop haters. I would sincerely like to know why is that so. How is that a ridiculous statement?Don't say no to drugs, say no thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #9 July 25, 2008 Quote The article clearly states that the NY Civil Liberties Union are cop haters. I would sincerely like to know why is that so. Oh well, if the article says it then it must be true! If the writer thinks the NYCLU hates cops then it is up to the writer to justify that statement. On the whole, it seem to me that the writer is woefully unable to tell the difference between disagreeing with a policy and hating the people that police the streets. Seems that you are, too.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #10 July 25, 2008 What funny to me is that all the people claiming racism are ignoring where the stops take place and where the crime is happening. QuoteThe lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan said the NYPD has stopped people in New York nearly 1 million times over the last two years. It said more than half of the people targeted were black, and some 90 percent were either black or Latino. U.S. Census Bureau statistics show 25 percent of the city’s population is black, 28 percent is Hispanic and 44 percent is white. The lawsuit asks that the stop-and-frisk practice be declared unconstitutional and that Blair be awarded unspecified compensatory damages. If you bother to examine where gun crime is happening, and where the stop and frisks are happening, you'll find they are very much the same place. Now, consider the demographics of people living in those areas, and you will find that the racial make up of the people stopped matches the make up of the neighborhood. It's not the police officers' fault that crime tends to happen in certain areas. Ask the residents why. Do they want police to stop and frisk people in Tribeca and Greenwich when the shootings are happening in Harlem and the Bronx? Or do they want police to focus on the area and the suspects of shootings?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #11 July 25, 2008 Okay, I guess you need to have it spelled out very clearly: QuoteI don't get what you're trying to say. I never called you an idiot. The article clearly states that the NY Civil Liberties Union are cop haters. I would sincerely like to know why is that so. How is that a ridiculous statement? Your original thread title: QuoteWhat is up with Liberals being Cop haters??!! Your edited thread title: QuoteWhat is up with NY Liberals being Cop haters??!! Your original question within your post: I just don't get it. Liberals, please clarify why you hate cops for curiousity sake. Your edited question within your post: QuoteI just don't get it. NY Liberals, please clarify why you hate cops for curiousity sake. You asked why liberal were cop haters. A HUGE generalization. Then you went back and edited your question and acted like it never happened. WRT the article saying that NY liberals are cop haters, so what? Anyone can write an article claiming that a group of people hates cops. I could write an article that says skydivers all hate guns. Doesn't make it true, does it? If you expect anyone to follow your line of reasoning and ignore your edits, then you must think they're an idiot. Or you're not thinking at all, perhaps?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #12 July 25, 2008 Quote The article clearly states that the NY Civil Liberties Union are cop haters. Yes it does. And that's a flag to most of us of crappy news reporting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #13 July 25, 2008 QuoteWhat funny to me is that all the people claiming racism are ignoring where the stops take place and where the crime is happening. QuoteThe lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan said the NYPD has stopped people in New York nearly 1 million times over the last two years. It said more than half of the people targeted were black, and some 90 percent were either black or Latino. U.S. Census Bureau statistics show 25 percent of the city’s population is black, 28 percent is Hispanic and 44 percent is white. The lawsuit asks that the stop-and-frisk practice be declared unconstitutional and that Blair be awarded unspecified compensatory damages. If you bother to examine where gun crime is happening, and where the stop and frisks are happening, you'll find they are very much the same place. Now, consider the demographics of people living in those areas, and you will find that the racial make up of the people stopped matches the make up of the neighborhood. It's not the police officers' fault that crime tends to happen in certain areas. Ask the residents why. Do they want police to stop and frisk people in Tribeca and Greenwich when the shootings are happening in Harlem and the Bronx? Or do they want police to focus on the area and the suspects of shootings? The real question, to me, would be.... Why are they stopping me and frisking me when I'm doing nothing suspicious?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #14 July 25, 2008 QuoteSince we're generalizing - why do conservatives hate the constitution? Also a ridiculous statement. Actually, conservatives LIKE the constitution as written and intended, not like the living breathing changing constitution the libs want"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #15 July 25, 2008 Quote Actually, conservatives LIKE the constitution as written and intended, not like the living breathing changing constitution the libs want Damn! Coffee on the keyboard again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #16 July 25, 2008 Quote Quote Actually, conservatives LIKE the constitution as written and intended, not like the living breathing changing constitution the libs want Damn! Coffee on the keyboard again! You need remember there is difference between consevatives and today republicans"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #17 July 25, 2008 Nobody is calling you an idiot. We're calling every single word you've written in this thread, idiotic. Mainly because it treats the rest of us like idiots. There's a certain level of discourse here, regardless of ideology. Argue like you're a 10-year old on the playground, and you'll quickly be invited to talk to the hand. Get with the program, or just get ignored. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #18 July 25, 2008 Quote You need remember there is difference between consevatives and today republicans "I'll take nonsensical verse and mythical beasts for $100 Alex!" Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe. "Beware the Conservative, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun The frumious Bandersnatch!" ......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #19 July 25, 2008 QuoteWhat funny to me is that all the people claiming racism are ignoring where the stops take place and where the crime is happening... Excellent post, Kennedy. The liberals will probably insist that little old white ladies be stopped and frisked in order to even up the racial statistics, just like they do at airports. That's the only way to make it "fair". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #20 July 25, 2008 Quote Quote You need remember there is difference between consevatives and today republicans "I'll take nonsensical verse and mythical beasts for $100 Alex!" Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe. "Beware the Conservative, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun The frumious Bandersnatch!" ......... As most of us knew you would"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #21 July 25, 2008 QuoteQuoteWhat funny to me is that all the people claiming racism are ignoring where the stops take place and where the crime is happening... Excellent post, Kennedy. The liberals will probably insist that little old white ladies be stopped and frisked in order to even up the racial statistics, just like they do at airports. That's the only way to make it "fair". Maybe I'm reading into this too much but for clarification...Are you saying it's ok for the police to stop and search citizens for no reason other than they're in the wrong neighborhood?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #22 July 25, 2008 QuoteThe article clearly states that the NY Civil Liberties Union are cop haters. I would sincerely like to know why is that so. It could be due to poor editorial oversight or a desire to print a sensationalist story.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 July 25, 2008 Quote Actually, conservatives LIKE the constitution as written and intended, not like the living breathing changing constitution the libs want The Bill of Rights seemed pretty clear, even taken literally. Yet the GOP doesn't seem to think much of the 1st, 4th, or 5th. Are they all ESL Americans? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 July 25, 2008 If you were black and and black friends, you'd probably get tired of being stopped (at gunpoint) all the time just because some other black people did bad things. And every once in a while, the cops seem to shoot someone a few dozen times - fearing for your life tends to make you dislike the source of the fear. And I'm sure you believe in the right to self defense, even if NYC does not. But someone carrying a handgun knows that being discovered by the cops will be bad for them, even if they're not criminally oriented. (A bit of a sidebar, but in the aftermath of Heller I don't recall reading any intent to sue NY for their effective gun ban. Why?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #25 July 25, 2008 QuoteWhy are they stopping me and frisking me when I'm doing nothing suspicious? QuoteMaybe I'm reading into this too much but for clarification...Are you saying it's ok for the police to stop and search citizens for no reason other than they're in the wrong neighborhood? What we all need to understand in that most things on the street (involving officers) involve a sliding scale, not a bright-line one-or-the-other difference. Voluntary Encounter --> nothing required to initiate Investigative Detention or Frisk --> requires reasonable suspicion Custodial Arrest or Search --> requires probable cause (search may require warrant) For definition of a Frisk and when an officer can do it, see Terry v Ohio. It is very different from a search. While we are on the topic, being placed in handcuffs does not mean you are under arrest, and if you are placed in handcuffs and then set free, it does not mean the officer is just harrassing you.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
