WTF is America doing?

[shropshire 0]

Are Condi(scending) Rice and what's his name right in demanding that the Russians removed their troops from a foriegn country immediately whilst keeping theirs in someone elses?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[idrankwhat 0]

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Are Condi(scending) Rice and what's his name right in demanding that the Russians removed their troops from a foriegn country immediately whilst keeping theirs in someone elses?

Why certainly. She's heading over with a brand new "heads I win, tails you lose" coin for the toss. Of course I'm not sure how's she's going to react when the response is "oh yea, so what are YOU going to do about it?"

[Capt.Slog 0]

'I found him very straightforward and trustworthy.' Bush on Putin, June 2001.

Linkwww.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/06/20010618.html


Some judgment that Bush fella has.

[Amazon 7]

Fighting the evil commies is far easier for the NEO CONS to understand.. given their track record on fighting the Axis of Evil that they thought was a good replacement so far.

[JohnRich 4]

So I guess that you think all invasions are equal.

A free democracy invading a tyrannical dictatorship to set its people free, is the same as a tyrannical dictatorship invading a free democracy.

So I guess there was nothing wrong with the Nazi's taking over Europe either. We all should have just ignored them and let them have it.

[shropshire 0]

No of course they are not the same but the Iraq invasion was based upon a false premis and a lot, a serious lot of innocent people have suffered because of it and still that country is occupied, whilst Bush spouts on about Russia occupying Gerorgia.

Do you think that Bush did the right thing in Iraq?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rehmwa 2]

Well, Georgia has a major oil pipeline in it.

Therefore,.....

George Bush and his evil oil buddies are using their privately owned corporation, Russia Inc., to further their goal of violent dominance of the world oil market.

It's all in the flyer I hand out every Tuesday morning on the corner by the gas station.

Edit: Frankly, once you've been through Atlanta, I see no reason why a country like Russia would want to invade Georgia...

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

So I guess that you think all invasions are equal.

A free democracy invading a tyrannical dictatorship to set its people free, is the same as a tyrannical dictatorship invading a free democracy.

So I guess there was nothing wrong with the Nazi's taking over Europe either. We all should have just ignored them and let them have it.

As long as you believe in your self created fairy tales - yes. It seems you still believe in the holy crusade to free the poor. What an old BS.

It's nice to know you are stuck in your corner of the world. Stay there.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[akarunway 1]

Quote

So I guess that you think all invasions are equal.

A free democracy invading a tyrannical dictatorship to set its people free, is the same as a tyrannical dictatorship invading a free democracy.

So I guess there was nothing wrong with the Nazi's taking over Europe either. We all should have just ignored them and let them have it.

Com'n. That's a pretty lame arguement in todays day and age and w/ the USA firepower unmatched.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[billvon 2,989]

>A free democracy invading a tyrannical dictatorship to set its people free . .

Cue the stirring patriotic music, hoist the flag AND LET FREEDOM RING! Play it loud enough so no one looks too hard at the details.

>So I guess there was nothing wrong with the Nazi's . . .

Aaaaaaand - cue Godwin. Make sure you have some wounded soldiers waiting in the wings in case they're needed for another political point.

[mnealtx 0]

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>A free democracy invading a tyrannical dictatorship to set its people free . .

Cue the stirring patriotic music, hoist the flag AND LET FREEDOM RING! Play it loud enough so no one looks too hard at the details.

>So I guess there was nothing wrong with the Nazi's . . .

Aaaaaaand - cue Godwin. Make sure you have some wounded soldiers waiting in the wings in case they're needed for another political point.

I guess instead, we could have The Obamessiah declare "peace in our time", eh Bill?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[masterrig 1]

Just today, I read in the news where Dubya accused Russia of: 'bullying and intimidation!' Excuse me? That's again, the pot calling the kettle black. If the case be that there is an oil pipeline in Georgia, there's your answer. Dubya is so deep with the 'Oilies' in this country it's sickening. To me, Dubya needs to keep his nose out of it until Georgia might ask for our help.


Chuck

[billvon 2,989]

>I guess instead, we could have The Obamessiah declare "peace in our
>time", eh Bill?

Or the next McCain/Bush war. I'll take the guy who tries diplomacy before he starts killing.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>I guess instead, we could have The Obamessiah declare "peace in our
>time", eh Bill?

Or the next McCain/Bush war. I'll take the guy who tries diplomacy before he starts killing.

So would I, all else being equal - but since all you supplied was snark, well...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnRich 4]

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No of course they are not the same but the Iraq invasion was based upon a false premis blah blah blah... whilst Bush spouts on about Russia occupying Gerorgia. Do you think that Bush did the right thing in Iraq?

You have a hundred other threads to bash America over Iraq.

A sovereign democracy is invaded by communists, and all you liberals can think to do is bash America, which is doing nothing more than peacefully trying to make Russia stop.

I would like to see you America-bashers cease your mindless bashing long enough to give an honest answer to this question:

Do you approve of Russia invading Georgia?
Answer Yes or No.

See if you can pull yourself away from your America-bashing long enough to actually consider the seriousness of this world event, on its own. Forget about America for five seconds. Try really hard.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

>A free democracy invading a tyrannical dictatorship to set its people free . .

Cue the stirring patriotic music, hoist the flag AND LET FREEDOM RING! Play it loud enough so no one looks too hard at the details.

>So I guess there was nothing wrong with the Nazi's . . .

Aaaaaaand - cue Godwin. Make sure you have some wounded soldiers waiting in the wings in case they're needed for another political point.

I guess instead, we could have The Obamessiah declare "peace in our time", eh Bill?

Nah, just elect the war monger McSame to further the war machine in the facade of liberty...... and lots of profit for Haliburton and maybe hit the debt to 15T by McSame's term end.

[Lucky... 0]

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No of course they are not the same but the Iraq invasion was based upon a false premis blah blah blah... whilst Bush spouts on about Russia occupying Gerorgia. Do you think that Bush did the right thing in Iraq?

You have a hundred other threads to bash America over Iraq.

A sovereign democracy is invaded by communists, and all you liberals can think to do is bash America, which is doing nothing more than peacefully trying to make Russia stop.

I would like to see you America-bashers cease your mindless bashing long enough to give an honest answer to this question:

Do you approve of Russia invading Georgia?
Answer Yes or No.

See if you can pull yourself away from your America-bashing long enough to actually consider the seriousness of this world event, on its own. Forget about America for five seconds. Try really hard.

After failures in Korea, VN, Iraq and Afghanistan, it makes a real hard argument to think the US should continue its attack for Democracy. Don't worry, the US engages in conflicts with puny nations and then turns them into proxy wars, this will be no different; we won;t directly fight the Russians, we will supply Georgia with arms to fight them. Then there's that little debt thingy......

[FallingOsh 0]

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Quote

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No of course they are not the same but the Iraq invasion was based upon a false premis blah blah blah... whilst Bush spouts on about Russia occupying Gerorgia. Do you think that Bush did the right thing in Iraq?

You have a hundred other threads to bash America over Iraq.

A sovereign democracy is invaded by communists, and all you liberals can think to do is bash America, which is doing nothing more than peacefully trying to make Russia stop.

I would like to see you America-bashers cease your mindless bashing long enough to give an honest answer to this question:

Do you approve of Russia invading Georgia?
Answer Yes or No.

See if you can pull yourself away from your America-bashing long enough to actually consider the seriousness of this world event, on its own. Forget about America for five seconds. Try really hard.

After failures in Korea, VN, Iraq and Afghanistan, it makes a real hard argument to think the US should continue its attack for Democracy. Don't worry, the US engages in conflicts with puny nations and then turns them into proxy wars, this will be no different; we won;t directly fight the Russians, we will supply Georgia with arms to fight them. Then there's that little debt thingy......

More useless rambling. I'm pretty sure the South Koreans would argue against your claims of failure. I would never claim Vietnam a success, but the North wasn't able to take over.

You can bable about the oil-driven war machine all you want but there's no basis. If we went into Iraq for oil then why am i paying $3.60 a gallon?

I'm confused on your stance. I assume, by your condescending remark that you don't think we should supply Georgia with anything they would need to fight the war on their own. Are you saying we should try diplomacy, cause that's not working with Russia. Do you think we should leave Georgia to fend for itself and ignore the situation? The backhanded slaps at America (which has nothing to do with Russia vs Georgia) are clever, but don't suggest any kind of solution.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[Amazon 7]

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You can bable about the oil-driven war machine all you want but there's no basis. If we went into Iraq for oil then why am i paying $3.60 a gallon?

Ask yourself this question..

What business is the Bush and Cheney family in???

Do you think a barrel of oil that comes out of the wells that they and their friends own all over the intermountain west.... is more profitable at $25 a barrel or at $135 a barrel.???

Do you really think that those people did not realize the effect that attacking Iraq would have in destabilizing world oil prices... I mean come on... if there is a fire in a well or there is ANY political instability in ANY of those countries.. it causes prices to spike and it has for the last 30 years... that is the reality.

The NEO CONS told us that the Iraqis would be paying for this war... the NEO CONS told us the Iraqis would be throwing flowers at our feet.. and on and on and on...

It hasnt quite worked out like that now has it.

[FallingOsh 0]

Quote

Ask yourself this question..

What business is the Bush and Cheney family in???

Do you think a barrel of oil that comes out of the wells that they and their friends own all over the intermountain west.... is more profitable at $25 a barrel or at $135 a barrel.???

Do you really think that those people did not realize the effect that attacking Iraq would have in destabilizing world oil prices... I mean come on... if there is a fire in a well or there is ANY political instability in ANY of those countries.. it causes prices to spike and it has for the last 30 years... that is the reality.

So now your argument is that we went to war with the intent to increase oil prices? I thought we went there to take it from them.

Quote

The NEO CONS told us that the Iraqis would be paying for this war... the NEO CONS told us the Iraqis would be throwing flowers at our feet.. and on and on and on...

It hasnt quite worked out like that now has it.

I don't remember hearing anyone say Sadam would pay for our war against him. Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall. If the Iraqis had flowers, they would be throwing them at our feet. The Iraqi people are not the ones continuing to fight coalition forces. They appreciate us like CNN wouldn't dare let you understand.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[Amazon 7]

Gee time for some fact checking....

http://www.americanprogress.org/kf/priraqclaimfact1029.htm


PRE-WAR COST ESTIMATES

CLAIM: Iraq will be � an affordable endeavor � that � will not require sustained aid � and will �be in the range of $50 billion to $60 billion .� � Budget Director Mitch Daniels [Forbes 4/11/03, W. Post 3/28/03, NY Times 1/2/03, respectively]

CLAIM: �Costs of any such intervention would be very small.� - Top White House Economist Glen Hubbard [CNBC, 10/4/02]

CLAIM: Paul Wolfowitz �dismissed articles in several newspapers this week asserting that Pentagon budget specialists put the cost of war and reconstruction at $60 billion to $95 billion in this fiscal year.� [NY Times, 2/28/03 ]

CLAIM: �In terms of the American taxpayers contribution, [$1.7 billion] is it for the US. The rest of the rebuilding of Iraq will be done by other countries and Iraqi oil revenues�The American part of this will be 1.7 billion. We have no plans for any further-on funding for this.� � USAID Director Andrew Natsios


CLAIM: �The oil revenues of Iraq could bring between $50 and $100 billion over the course of the next two or three years�We're dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.� � Paul Wolfowitz, [Congressional Testimony, 3/27/03]

CLAIM: �Iraq, unlike Afghanistan, is a rather wealthy country. Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction.� � White House Spokesman Ari Fleischer, 2/18/03



FACT: International Oil Daily reported on 9/23/03 that Paul Bremer said that current and future oil revenues will be insufficient for rebuilding Iraq � despite the Administration's pre-war promises.

FACT: The WSJ reported on 9/5/03 that the Administration's oil estimates were �predicated on aggressively optimistic assumptions.�

FACT: While Bremer told Oil Daily that �Iraqi oil infrastructure was much worse than we thought,� a March 2000 report by the U.N. clearly said Iraq oil would be insufficient. The report said the Iraqi oil industry was �lamentable� and that the decline was �accelerating.� Roger Dowan of PFC Energy told NPR on 9/11/03 that the U.N. study the �made very clear that actually the facilities and the capacity to produce oil in Iraq� were far less than the Administration was portraying.

FACT: The NY Times reported on 10/5/03 �The Bush administration's optimistic statements earlier this year that Iraq's oil wealth, not American taxpayers, would cover most of the cost of rebuilding Iraq were at odds with a bleaker assessment of a government task force secretly established last fall to study Iraq's oil industry.�

[Lucky... 0]

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Quote

Quote

Quote

No of course they are not the same but the Iraq invasion was based upon a false premis blah blah blah... whilst Bush spouts on about Russia occupying Gerorgia. Do you think that Bush did the right thing in Iraq?

You have a hundred other threads to bash America over Iraq.

A sovereign democracy is invaded by communists, and all you liberals can think to do is bash America, which is doing nothing more than peacefully trying to make Russia stop.

I would like to see you America-bashers cease your mindless bashing long enough to give an honest answer to this question:

Do you approve of Russia invading Georgia?
Answer Yes or No.

See if you can pull yourself away from your America-bashing long enough to actually consider the seriousness of this world event, on its own. Forget about America for five seconds. Try really hard.

After failures in Korea, VN, Iraq and Afghanistan, it makes a real hard argument to think the US should continue its attack for Democracy. Don't worry, the US engages in conflicts with puny nations and then turns them into proxy wars, this will be no different; we won;t directly fight the Russians, we will supply Georgia with arms to fight them. Then there's that little debt thingy......

More useless rambling. I'm pretty sure the South Koreans would argue against your claims of failure. I would never claim Vietnam a success, but the North wasn't able to take over.

You can bable about the oil-driven war machine all you want but there's no basis. If we went into Iraq for oil then why am i paying $3.60 a gallon?

I'm confused on your stance. I assume, by your condescending remark that you don't think we should supply Georgia with anything they would need to fight the war on their own. Are you saying we should try diplomacy, cause that's not working with Russia. Do you think we should leave Georgia to fend for itself and ignore the situation? The backhanded slaps at America (which has nothing to do with Russia vs Georgia) are clever, but don't suggest any kind of solution.

>>>>>>>>>>>>More useless rambling. I'm confused ...


That defines your response.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>More useless rambling. I'm pretty sure the South Koreans would argue against your claims of failure. I would never claim Vietnam a success, but the North wasn't able to take over.


Many VN refuges are still here, so some would not argue that conflit either, but I have spoken with several and they wish we stayed the fuck out. So your non-scientific response s meaningless. Both were conflicts that yielded no surrender and thousands of US deaths, 100's of thousands of N deaths.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You can bable about the oil-driven war machine all you want but there's no basis. If we went into Iraq for oil then why am i paying $3.60 a gallon?


Perhaps the profiteers are the guys you elected for pres and his dog, so they don't mind the inflation. What's it gonna do, ruin their legacy? Ad for the high prices, it's a combo of peak oil, high demand and speculators jumping all over the comodity until significant people start pulling their dough. As we see it's falling pretty well, who knows where it will end.

So by your statment I see you think the US is all on the same side, people and politicians alike.....naive.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm confused on your stance. I assume, by your condescending remark that you don't think we should supply Georgia with anything they would need to fight the war on their own.


It's not condescending, just history-based. Proxy wars are wars fought at generally a small country, against a larger enemy. Large countries do this for fear of the end of the world as we know it if they fought each other, so they use small countries conflicts to do this. Yes, we should, for once, leave it alone.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Are you saying we should try diplomacy, cause that's not working with Russia.


That's right, as an American we're always right, we just need to send enough bombs so they see it our way. Brilliant. Diplomacy not working with Russia....as in we're always right....brother.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Do you think we should leave Georgia to fend for itself and ignore the situation? The backhanded slaps at America (which has nothing to do with Russia vs Georgia) are clever, but don't suggest any kind of solution.


Here's a solution.....STAY THE FUCK OUT OF OTHER'S BUSINESS FOR ONCE!!!!

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

I would like to see you America-bashers cease your mindless bashing long enough to give an honest answer to this question:

Do you approve of Russia invading Georgia?
Answer Yes or No.

The cheating of your spouse is wrong.
But it looks strange when someone who is cheating on their spouse tells another person who is also cheating that cheating is wrong.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[shropshire 0]

Quote

Just today, I read in the news where Dubya accused Russia of: 'bullying and intimidation!' Excuse me? That's again, the pot calling the kettle black. If the case be that there is an oil pipeline in Georgia, there's your answer. Dubya is so deep with the 'Oilies' in this country it's sickening. To me, Dubya needs to keep his nose out of it until Georgia might ask for our help.
Chuck

I 100% agree.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

John they are not for bashing America they are for bashing Bush and his arogant, warmongering ways. I can see the difference.

Bush ISN'T America - thankfully and it sounds (even here) that a lot of Americans don't think so either.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome