Hindsight 20/20, Pt III

[nerdgirl 0]

Given that arguably the single most brutal and repressive regime of the 20th century -- measured in estimated lives lost, length, and suppression of civil & human rights and that was a strategic threat to the United States and allies -- fell without military invasion, should the US have invaded the Soviet Union?

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Darius11 12]

No.

I think no one has a right to invade anyone unless they are attacked.
I don’t think disagreements on life or government philosophy is reason to start wars.
Anyone who is 100% sure that there way is the only way or the only right way is an idiot. We simply do not live long enough to know the consequences of our actions.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Given MAD I presume you mean at the conclusion of the European leg of WWII. It is highly doubtful the US would have succeeded with an invasion at that time. They still had the pacific war to prosecute and the allies were basically spent.
Besides the bulk of the human carnage, in terms of death anyway, had already occurred by the time WWII got started.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I think no one has a right to invade anyone unless they are attacked.

So neither side should have intervened when the other ran over some small country like Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Chile, or all of Eastern Europe?

[billvon 3,006]

>So neither side should have intervened when the other ran over
>some small country like Vietnam . . .

Nope. Outcome would have been the same, and tens of thousands of americans (and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese) would be alive today.

[Darius11 12]

Yep unless that country has an allay treaty with you then you have not been attacked. You should not get military involved in a disagreement between people in a different nation. It should not be us who decides if communism is right for Vietnam or not, and to think we have that right is arrogant beyond belief. The people of that nation have the right to choose their way of life no one else.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[millertimeunc 0]

Yep, and if a nation wants to ethnically cleanse the "undesireables" from its boundaries, it would be arrogant beyond belief to think that we have the right to intervene. After all, each country has the right to choose their way of life, right? I guess I shouldn't be so concerned about Darfur, and shame on Clinton for intervening with Milosevic! Maybe we should just return to isolationism. Oh wait, that didn't work out so well, as I recall...

The best things in life are dangerous.

[JohnRich 4]

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I think no one has a right to invade anyone unless they are attacked. I don’t think disagreements on life or government philosophy is reason to start wars.

So if millions of people are being massacred in a genocide, we should just mind our own business, look away, and let them do it.

And if another country invades someone else, as long as it's not our own, then again, we should just mind our own business, look away, and let them do it.

Yours is a recipe for letting the tyrants of the world to get away with mass murder.

Like it or not, America is the world's biggest super-power. And the only thing holding tyrants at bay, is the threat of American force.

Were America to become the isolationist that you desire, you wouldn't like what would happen to the rest of the world.

[DZJ 0]

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Like it or not, America is the world's biggest super-power. And the only thing holding tyrants at bay, is the threat of American force.

Just to be clear, which tyrants are being held at bay at the moment?

[Darius11 12]

You know I have never been the type to argue just for the hell of it. You do have a point and a good one.
Maybe the exception is we should only get involved for humanitarian reasons. I would not have a problem with that if it is real. US doing things like that in the past gave us the respect we had.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 23]

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I think no one has a right to invade anyone unless they are attacked. I don’t think disagreements on life or government philosophy is reason to start wars.

So if millions of people are being massacred in a genocide, we should just mind our own business, look away, and let them do it.

And if another country invades someone else, as long as it's not our own, then again, we should just mind our own business, look away, and let them do it.

Yours is a recipe for letting the tyrants of the world to get away with mass murder.

Like it or not, America is the world's biggest super-power. And the only thing holding tyrants at bay, is the threat of American force.

Were America to become the isolationist that you desire, you wouldn't like what would happen to the rest of the world.

Depends on which country you speak of and whether or not the left and the media loves the dictator/leader of said country, or not.....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

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Like it or not, America is the world's biggest super-power. And the only thing holding tyrants at bay, is the threat of American force.

Just to be clear, which tyrants are being held at bay at the moment?

That might be the disconnect. There was a time in history where the US sacrificed for the greater good,. Unfortunately we have lost that respect due to our actions. We went from looking like the night in shining armor to the greedy corporation who acts like we are above all laws.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

It’s odd how you believe the Left media has so much power. Enough to start wars with who they want (according to you) but not enough to elect a left president in 8 years. Something doesn’t sound right.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 23]

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It’s odd how you believe the Left media has so much power. Enough to start wars with who they want (according to you) but not enough to elect a left president in 8 years. Something doesn’t sound right.

Not my assurtion at all.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

Sorry then dude i must have missunderstood

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[SpeedRacer 1]

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I think no one has a right to invade anyone unless they are attacked. I don’t think disagreements on life or government philosophy is reason to start wars.

So if millions of people are being massacred in a genocide, we should just mind our own business, look away, and let them do it.

And if another country invades someone else, as long as it's not our own, then again, we should just mind our own business, look away, and let them do it.

Yours is a recipe for letting the tyrants of the world to get away with mass murder.

Like it or not, America is the world's biggest super-power. And the only thing holding tyrants at bay, is the threat of American force.

Were America to become the isolationist that you desire, you wouldn't like what would happen to the rest of the world.

OK. so that's why my tax dollars are paying for us to garrison the planet??? Anytime & everytime some asshole takes over some shithole country it is OUR job to stop it? Hell with that policy, we'd never be finished with the continent of Africa, much less the rest of the world.




Tell me where it says in the Constitution that it is the US government's job to police the planet.

If you read the writings of our country's founders, this is EXACTLY what they were trying to avoid!!!

I can find some quotes if you want.

Speed Racer
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[rushmc 23]

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Sorry then dude i must have missunderstood

Fair enough so i will follow up.

The last two elections were influenced greatly by the main stream media. That is why they were close (IMO) But even they could not overcome the lack of substance of Kerry and Gore.

I am STARTING to think they will suffer the same this cycle but that remains to be seen.

I dont think the media affects opinions as much as it trys to say what that opinion (in general) is.

Example, the media loves to say that the US has lost credibilty with the world. How they hell can they say that? There is no measurment just their (the media) opion of what they want it to be. Elections and comments from the governments of many countries do not back up that position.

How about the polls ? They are used to try and create a position not measure one.

The media and the left celebs love Castro and that idiot from Brazil. WHY?

My opinions only but this is a small part of what I think of the media. And it all started for me with a 60 Minutes piece on nuke plants many many years ago.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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I think no one has a right to invade anyone unless they are attacked. I don’t think disagreements on life or government philosophy is reason to start wars.

So if millions of people are being massacred in a genocide, we should just mind our own business, look away, and let them do it.

And if another country invades someone else, as long as it's not our own, then again, we should just mind our own business, look away, and let them do it.

Yours is a recipe for letting the tyrants of the world to get away with mass murder.

Like it or not, America is the world's biggest super-power. And the only thing holding tyrants at bay, is the threat of American force.

Were America to become the isolationist that you desire, you wouldn't like what would happen to the rest of the world.

OK. so that's why my tax dollars are paying for us to garrison the planet??? Anytime & everytime some asshole takes over some shithole country it is OUR job to stop it? Hell with that policy, we'd never be finished with the continent of Africa, much less the rest of the world.




Tell me where it says in the Constitution that it is the US government's job to police the planet.the same place where health care is listed as a right. You know, just after where is says abourtion has the same protections

If you read the writings of our country's founders, this is EXACTLY what they were trying to avoid!!!

I can find some quotes if you want.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I think no one has a right to invade anyone unless they are attacked. I don’t think disagreements on life or government philosophy is reason to start wars.

So if millions of people are being massacred in a genocide, we should just mind our own business, look away, and let them do it.

And if another country invades someone else, as long as it's not our own, then again, we should just mind our own business, look away, and let them do it.

Yours is a recipe for letting the tyrants of the world to get away with mass murder.

Like it or not, America is the world's biggest super-power. And the only thing holding tyrants at bay, is the threat of American force.

Were America to become the isolationist that you desire, you wouldn't like what would happen to the rest of the world.

OK. so that's why my tax dollars are paying for us to garrison the planet??? Anytime & everytime some asshole takes over some shithole country it is OUR job to stop it? Hell with that policy, we'd never be finished with the continent of Africa, much less the rest of the world.




Tell me where it says in the Constitution that it is the US government's job to police the planet.

If you read the writings of our country's founders, this is EXACTLY what they were trying to avoid!!!

I can find some quotes if you want.

By the way, in general I agree with you but, one cant cherry pick what is protected and what is not.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yep unless that country has an allay treaty with you then you have not been attacked.

The US allied with South Vietnam. The Russians with North. Same sort of thing with Korea (US/China).

The Cold War resulted in regional conflict, no doubt. But in the absence of that conflict, each superpower would have recolonized the world. Is that actually better?

[SpeedRacer 1]

rushmc, show me where I said the US government's job is to provide healthcare & protect abortion.


This is my problem with the Right and the Left: they each want the government to do their agenda, and when you point out that it isn't in the Constitution & goes against what the Founders wanted, they essentially say that the Constitution isn't relevant anymore.

And that if the government doesn't do their agenda, the whole world will go all to hell.

How about giving freedom a chance to work for a change, and then we can see what works?

And if the Left wants a socialist utopia, move to one.

And if the Right wants a militaristic imperialist theocracy, they can move too. Just don't build your empire on my dollar.

The USA was supposed to be an experiment in freedom. If you don't want that, move somewhere else & maybe start your own country.

Speed Racer
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[billvon 3,006]

>which tyrants are being held at bay at the moment?

You know, all of them. It would be anarchy if not for us.

It's like my elephant repellent. Sure, it stinks and the neighbors complain - but I haven't seen a single elephant in my yard since I started using it!

[rushmc 23]

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rushmc, show me where I said the US government's job is to provide healthcare & protect abortion.


This is my problem with the Right and the Left: they each want the government to do their agenda, and when you point out that it isn't in the Constitution & goes against what the Founders wanted, they essentially say that the Constitution isn't relevant anymore.

And that if the government doesn't do their agenda, the whole world will go all to hell.

How about giving freedom a chance to work for a change, and then we can see what works?

And if the Left wants a socialist utopia, move to one.

And if the Right wants a militaristic imperialist theocracy, they can move too. Just don't build your empire on my dollar.

The USA was supposed to be an experiment in freedom. If you don't want that, move somewhere else & maybe start your own country.

I did not say YOU said any of those things. Sorry, I just was using them a general examples.

As for the rest of you points? I agree to a point

Marc

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnRich 4]

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We went from looking like the night in shining armor to the greedy corporation who acts like we are above all laws.

And if we started ignoring all acts of genocide and tyranny around the world, and failed to come to the aid of people in need, including our long time allies, then how would we look then? Is that what you call "a knight in shining armor" - someone who just looks good but does nothing to help people in need?

[JohnRich 4]

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OK. so that's why my tax dollars are paying for us to garrison the planet??? Anytime & everytime some asshole takes over some shithole country it is OUR job to stop it? .. Tell me where it says in the Constitution that it is the US government's job to police the planet.

It's not in the Constitution. It's a moral imperative. When you have the power to stop bullies from picking on little guys, you should. To stand by and do nothing, is to allow evil to triumph and grow stronger.

But that's okay, I'll put you down in the list for people who don't give a crap about anyone else.