A question of elitism

[BikerBabe 0]

A common theme i see recurring in many threads here in SC is the "elitism" claim. Someone, somewhere in the threads, will mention elitism, usually with a negative connotation. Often we talk about divisions in society, though usually they have better definitions, such as economic status, regional or ethnic divisions, etc. But these cries of "elitism" have me puzzled and seeking a more concrete definition, or at least an idea of a consensus.

So I have a few questions. Consider this a survey, of sorts.

1. What, in your opinion, is "elitism"?

2. If you consider elitism to be a negative thing, are there any people or groups of people you consider to be "elitist"? If so, who? and why?

3. Of those people/groups, are any of them in your opinion truly elite (meaning their supposed elitism is justified)?

The questions are open-ended. It doesn't have to relate to anything discussed in SC so far. I don't care. I'm just trying to get a feel for where this particular attitude comes from, and more importantly, what it IS.

This isn't necessarily a political thread, more of a survey of SC participants. I don't see the subject as particularly controversial on it's own merits, but I figured this would be the best audience for it.

I'll answer a little later.

Thanks.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[SpeedRacer 1]

anybody who wants to be President of the United States is probably going to be an elitist to some extent.

Speed Racer
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[livendive 8]

I consider the "elite" to be especially gifted, especially with regard to intelligence and/or ability.

I consider "elitists" to be those who falsely perceive themselves to be better than the common man, especially with regard to unearned wealth or power, but sometimes also intellect and/or ability.

Someone who has worked their way to the top of the socioeconomic ladder is most likely elite. Someone who was born or married into their socioeconomic status is most likely elitist.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[downwardspiral 0]

Elitism is arrogance which to me is unbecoming. There are a few posters here who I would consider elitists but I'm not naming names.

Noone can justify an elitist attitude. Humility is respectablel. Arrogance is not.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Lucky... 0]

The whole elitism thing is about the right, who are inherently elite in that they are exclusive. The task for the right is to fool the poor and middle class into thinking they actually have the interests of them if elected, so they use fear-mongerring (the Arabs are out to get us) or use what the poor fear, that the poor are looked down upon by the left. Truth is that the left establishes progrmas to help them, socialized everything, the right wing ends those and has to recover by calling the left what the right actually is.

[quade 4]

More than anything else, I think it's one of a number of terms that gets bandied about in internet argument forum in an attempt to "win."

If someone has attended a school of higher learning; elitist.
If someone has a more prosperous job; elitist.
If someone has better grammar; elitist.

Essentially, it's overused as a call out; "Hey! You think you're better than me?"

True "elitism" would be actually holding the position that a particular group actually see themselves as being superior and therefor it's their birthright to tell the rest of us what to do.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Skyrad 0]

Well theres us, and then theres the rest of you. Simple see, a place for everyone and everyone in their place, just as God intended.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[DJL 235]

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More than anything else, I think it's one of a number of terms that gets bandied about in internet argument forum in an attempt to "win."

If someone has attended a school of higher learning; elitist.
If someone has a more prosperous job; elitist.
If someone has better grammar; elitist.

Essentially, it's overused as a call out; "Hey! You think your better than me?"

True "elitism" would be actually holding the position that a particular group actually see themselves as being superior and therefor it's their birthright to tell the rest of us what to do.

Edited for contextual grammar.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[quade 4]

I fail to see how "you are" would have been incorrect.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Skyrad 0]

Oh, in case you were wondering...

All the people like us are we, and everyone else is They.


If you don't believe me just ask Kipling.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[DJL 235]

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I fail to see how "you are" would have been incorrect.

My punchline was that the person making that statment usually says "your" instead "you're".

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[pirana 0]

It's an ambiguous word, which of course means it gets used with great license, often as an insult.

As a status, it is a positive thing and simply means someone is at the top of the heap in some way. Maybe as a skydiver, or a raiser of monstrous pumpkins, or even as the biggest pooper.

As a behavior, it is an attitude that only those at the top have a say in how things are or ought to be.

Unfortunately, many that have worked their way to some perceived situation of status or standing get called elitist out of jealousy and resentment. (Usually by the ignorance-propogating I-don't-need-no-stinking-degree crowd).

BTW, it has nothing to do with social class.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[lawrocket 3]

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1. What, in your opinion, is "elitism"?

I think put most simply, an "elitist" is one who thinks that he or she has the authority or capacity to decide who is superior or inferior. In doing so, they expect others to conform to their personal ideals. Rather than respect the difference of others, they disrespect those who are different from them.

Typically, it includes the following:
- claims to know and understand what others do not (this usually comes from the fringes or the right or left). "I don't think you understand" (non-elitist) it is "You don't understand" (elitist);
- claims to know the hearts and minds of those with whom they disagree and challenges their motivations through supposition, stating it as fact. "You don't care" (elitist) vs. "I don't think you care" (non-elitist). Or
"You should care about xxx" (elitist) vs. "Here is why I care about xxx" (non-elitist). Or
"You are evil." (elitist) vs. "I don't understand why you feel that way" (non-elitist). Or
"She'll do xxx because she is xxx" (elitist) vs. "I think she'll do xxx because of past conduct" (non-elitist
- claims that those who disagree are stupid, non-mainstream (that's the biggest one, lately), uneducated, etc, i.e. "She's trailer trash" (elitist) vs. "Her background is that of a person without
- Those who communicate with others from a position of perceived power. (i.e., "A Democrat is a Republican who has never been mugged." (elitist)

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2. If you consider elitism to be a negative thing, are there any people or groups of people you consider to be "elitist"? If so, who? and why?

Everybody who is involved in sales has an elitist sort of thought. But there is a difference between a person selling wares or services and selling themselves. Anyone who thinks he or she is better than anyone else is, by nature, "elitist." "We should be more like Europe." That's "elitist." "Europe should be more like the US." It's elitist.

Yes. I consider it to be a negative thing to impute your beliefs and subjective experience to others. I think that extreme right and left wing are this way. (I know the way to prosperity. My way is best for all of you, because I said so.)

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3. Of those people/groups, are any of them in your opinion truly elite (meaning their supposed elitism is justified)?

No. I don't think any of them are, because I know that I am not always correct. Part and parcel to "elitism" is that your subjective perceptions of thiings are objective reality, as opposed to just a small piece of the objective reality picture.

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What do I think is "not" elite?
Education does not mean "elitist." Plenty of uneducated people act superior, and plenty of highly educated people do not. It is a factor which most people use to prove that they are better than someone else. "Well, I have a college degree." (elitist). "Yeah, in Sociology." (elitist).

Some actually use LACK of education as an elitist tract. "Drop out, man." (elitist.)

A prosperous job doesn't make you elitist. Plenty of those in non-prosperous jobs put down the wealthy, business owners, or others whom they view as doing better than themselves.

My wife is hotter than your wife.