klingeme 1 #51 September 5, 2008 QuoteWhy should a personal, private medical decision between an adult woman and her doctor be subject to the whims of state regulation? Because there is a dead baby on the other end of the vacuum cleaner. I'm all for the rights of a termanally ill patient to end their suffering, but what unborn baby is saying "Could you kill me to make my mother life easier?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #52 September 5, 2008 >but what unborn baby is saying "Could you kill me to make my mother > life easier?" The same number of unborn babies that are asking to not be killed, I imagine. That doesn't mean much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #53 September 5, 2008 Quote>but what unborn baby is saying "Could you kill me to make my mother > life easier?" The same number of unborn babies that are asking to not be killed, I imagine. That doesn't mean much. I just think it is ridiculous comparing Medical Weed, and doctor assisted suicide (with the patients consent) to the ending of a "potential" (I believe real) innocent life. By your standard, if your a mute, it's all right to kill you. or a newborn isn't asking not to be killed so they're fair game. How about someone that is just asleep......are they a fair target too? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #54 September 5, 2008 QuoteQuoteWhy should a personal, private medical decision between an adult woman and her doctor be subject to the whims of state regulation? Because there is a dead baby on the other end of the vacuum cleaner. I'm all for the rights of a termanally ill patient to end their suffering, but what unborn baby is saying "Could you kill me to make my mother life easier?" I'm curious to what you think of IUDs.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #55 September 5, 2008 QuoteQuoteWhy should a personal, private medical decision between an adult woman and her doctor be subject to the whims of state regulation? Because there is a dead baby on the other end of the vacuum cleaner. I'm all for the rights of a termanally ill patient to end their suffering, but what unborn baby is saying "Could you kill me to make my mother life easier?" Are you male or female? My guess is that you are male. Do you have any personal experience with unplanned pregnancy in any way? In other words, have you or a close friend or family member dealt with the enormity of the decision to terminate a pregnancy? I highly doubt it. You have this tremendous concern for unborn babies. What do you do to actively help women who are considering abortion? Volunteer anywhere to help anyone? Probably not. Do you put any time, energy, or resources towrds improving prenatal care for women without health insurance? How about towards helping educate young mothers in childrearing skills? Nope. Too much like actual work, I expect. Your concern starts at conception and ends at birth. The usual anti-choice position. We care, but only a little bit for those poor defenseless unborn babies. Tough shit for the mom. No concern at all for the female with the pregnancy. All the concern is for the poor defenseless unborn baby. Are you against the Pill? Why not? Don't you know how it works? DAGS and get back with us. Isn't the prevention of uterine wall implantation of a fertilized ovum via artificial manipulation of hormones a method of abortion? It is, isn't it? You can't be anti-choice and for the Pill, because they work out to the same thing, don't they? Come on now, be consistent with your purported beliefs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #56 September 5, 2008 I'd just like to interject that not volunteering or working in the field in no way invalidates someone's opinion. If that were true I'd have to go work at an abortion clinic and there's no way I'm doing that just so I can decide I'm an abortionist.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #57 September 5, 2008 QuoteQuote>but what unborn baby is saying "Could you kill me to make my mother > life easier?" The same number of unborn babies that are asking to not be killed, I imagine. That doesn't mean much. I just think it is ridiculous comparing Medical Weed, and doctor assisted suicide (with the patients consent) to the ending of a "potential" (I believe real) innocent life. By your standard, if your a mute, it's all right to kill you. or a newborn isn't asking not to be killed so they're fair game. How about someone that is just asleep......are they a fair target too? WHOOOSH Right over your head goes the point being made. Do states rights trump the feds? Yes or no. This isn't about abortion. This is about the hypocrisy of the righties whining about "States Rights"on the pro or anti choice issues, while being against them when it comes to other issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #58 September 5, 2008 Quoteno one else running for the presidency has proposed making guns illegal. Obama has in fact said he wants to make handguns illegal. He has claimed he wants to make "assault" weapons illegal. You may try to say that leaves other types of firearms, but it is in fact trying to ban types of firearms. And I bet not even you agree with late term abortions. So you agree in banning certain types of abortions. Quote So we agree that there are reasonable infringements on that right. The problem as always is "reasonable". QuoteAnd I suspect not even you believe that the second amendment allows someone to own a functioning Patriot missile battery That would not be an arm a soldier would muster with. But I do think civilians have the right to FA weapons provided they are qualified to own them."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #59 September 5, 2008 QuoteQuoteno one else running for the presidency has proposed making guns illegal. Obama has in fact said he wants to make handguns illegal. He has claimed he wants to make "assault" weapons illegal. You may try to say that leaves other types of firearms, but it is in fact trying to ban types of firearms. And I bet not even you agree with late term abortions. So you agree in banning certain types of abortions. Quote So we agree that there are reasonable infringements on that right. The problem as always is "reasonable". QuoteAnd I suspect not even you believe that the second amendment allows someone to own a functioning Patriot missile battery That would not be an arm a soldier would muster with. But I do think civilians have the right to FA weapons provided they are qualified to own them. What qualifications would you suggest? How about RPGs?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #60 September 5, 2008 QuoteI'd just like to interject that not volunteering or working in the field in no way invalidates someone's opinion. If that were true I'd have to go work at an abortion clinic and there's no way I'm doing that just so I can decide I'm an abortionist. The anti-choice people make a big deal about how important the issue is to them. Their interest seems to end at supporting the politicians that want to end a woman's right to choose to carry a pregnancy to term, or not. That is as far as their concern goes. They don't give a shit about the woman, or the issues that face women who are dealing with an unplanned pregnancy. They don't give a shit about the "poor defenseless baby" once the kid is delivered. Then it is the parents responsibility. If they oppose abortion under all circumstances and do nothing to improve the situation for women who are in that predicament, they are hypocrites, pure and simple. Volunteering at a home for unwed mothers, donating time and money to organizations who provide free or reduced care to pregnant women, or doing some form of actually acting on their beliefs in a positive and productive way would be a vast improvement over their current activities. In other words, put up, or shut up. The parroting of the "poor innocent babies being murdered" crap is shallow and demeaning to a very complex and nuanced issue. The way I see it, a fundamental part of a woman's freedom is related to reproductive choice. They are free to not have sex. Birth control should be readily available and very low cost. If an unplanned pregnancy occurs, it is up to the woman to make the call to carry to term or not. The rights of the fully formed adult human female absolutely take precedence over an undifferentiated cell mass that, if everything goes perfectly, has the potential to become a human being. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #61 September 5, 2008 QuoteMe thinks you are twisting his words. And to get a license for a full auto you need a FFL and a extreme background check goes w/ it. So not true. You do not need an FFL for a MG. You need: 1. A correctly filled out form 4. You take that form to your local LEO and he runs a quick background check for outstanding warrants. 2. Two completed fingerprint cards. 3. A check or money order made out to the ATF&E for the sum of 200.00 4. A statement of citizenship. 5. Mail all of it off to VA and they run a background check on you. In about 2 mths the guy that has possession of the weapon gets the signed/stamped form in the mail. He then gives the form and the weapon to you. The only time you need a FFL (Really a manufacturers license) is to make a FA weapon from a weapon that was manufactured after 3/86."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #62 September 5, 2008 QuoteWhat qualifications would you suggest? How about RPGs? 1. Pass a criminal check. A history of violent crimes disqualifies you. 2. Pass a background check. Any suicidal or violent mental issues disqualifies you. *This requires that personal information is held on individuals....A dangerous proposition. So this data is ONLY allowed to be used for the act of the background check and no records of requests are kept and the reason for rejection is never handed out. You pass those two things, you are allowed to buy an AOW (any other weapon). To carry you have to pass the above and a proficiency test and a written test (most States already have this). An RPG is not an arm that a regular troop would muster with. But as long as the NFA rules are followed I would not care if someone did own an RPG. I don't mind the current procedures for the procurement of an NFA weapon. I do wish that the LEO HAD to sign unless the background check came up with issues. The 200.00 tax is nothing more than a throw back to the "poll taxes" and should be removed."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #63 September 6, 2008 QuotePalin has been clear that she wants to make abortion illegal;... Source? "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #64 September 6, 2008 Quote Quote Palin has been clear that she wants to make abortion illegal;... Source? Her own words would seem a pretty good hint. She opposed it EVEN for rape victims. And then there's the Republican Platform adopted at the RNC this very week. I don't suppose she repudiates her own party's platform. You may know better, of course.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #65 September 6, 2008 QuoteIn other words, put up, or shut up. So what you are saying is you volunteer at your local abortion clinic?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #66 September 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Palin has been clear that she wants to make abortion illegal;... Source? Her own words would seem a pretty good hint. She opposed it EVEN for rape victims. And then there's the Republican Platform adopted at the RNC this very week. I don't suppose she repudiates her own party's platform. You may know better, of course. Assuming you were trying to answer my question, you failed. If you'd like to try again, please provide a source for Billvon's claim that Gov. Palin "wants to make abortion illegal". "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #67 September 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Palin has been clear that she wants to make abortion illegal;... Source? Her own words would seem a pretty good hint. She opposed it EVEN for rape victims. And then there's the Republican Platform adopted at the RNC this very week. I don't suppose she repudiates her own party's platform. You may know better, of course. Assuming you were trying to answer my question, you failed. If you'd like to try again, please provide a source for Billvon's claim that Gov. Palin "wants to make abortion illegal". Go read the Official GOP platform - it's right in there. You DO know what a party platform is, right?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #68 September 6, 2008 You get one more chance. Fail again, and I'll ignore further claims by you that you've answered the question. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #69 September 6, 2008 QuoteYou get one more chance. Fail again, and I'll ignore further claims by you that you've answered the question. Sucks to be you, then.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #70 September 6, 2008 QuoteI do think civilians have the right to FA weapons provided they are qualified to own them. I've been thinking lately that it would be pretty cool to have an M198, as a conversation piece (and for personal protection). I'm not sure how practical it would be, given Orlando's traffic, but I don't think I'll need the license for concealed carry.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #71 September 6, 2008 QuoteDo you have any personal experience with unplanned pregnancy in any way? In other words, have you or a close friend or family member dealt with the enormity of the decision to terminate a pregnancy? I did spend a year working (24 hours a day) for a Department of Juvenile Justice Program to help out youth offenders (14 at a time) learn how to be decent human beings because their parents did a shitty job, but no I've never counseled at an abortioin clinic. Have you ever taken out the trash that contains the dead babies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #72 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote>but what unborn baby is saying "Could you kill me to make my mother > life easier?" The same number of unborn babies that are asking to not be killed, I imagine. That doesn't mean much. I just think it is ridiculous comparing Medical Weed, and doctor assisted suicide (with the patients consent) to the ending of a "potential" (I believe real) innocent life. By your standard, if your a mute, it's all right to kill you. or a newborn isn't asking not to be killed so they're fair game. How about someone that is just asleep......are they a fair target too? WHOOOSH Right over your head goes the point being made. Do states rights trump the feds? Yes or no. This isn't about abortion. This is about the hypocrisy of the righties whining about "States Rights"on the pro or anti choice issues, while being against them when it comes to other issues. I don't think the right to kill babies is the States, Federal, or the parents choice. It's wrong on all three levels, so I don't think your point matters much. Have you read this thread? It is VERY MUCH about abortion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #73 September 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>but what unborn baby is saying "Could you kill me to make my mother > life easier?" The same number of unborn babies that are asking to not be killed, I imagine. That doesn't mean much. I just think it is ridiculous comparing Medical Weed, and doctor assisted suicide (with the patients consent) to the ending of a "potential" (I believe real) innocent life. By your standard, if your a mute, it's all right to kill you. or a newborn isn't asking not to be killed so they're fair game. How about someone that is just asleep......are they a fair target too? WHOOOSH Right over your head goes the point being made. Do states rights trump the feds? Yes or no. This isn't about abortion. This is about the hypocrisy of the righties whining about "States Rights"on the pro or anti choice issues, while being against them when it comes to other issues. I don't think the right to kill babies is the States, Federal, or the parents choice. It's wrong on all three levels, so I don't think your point matters much. Have you read this thread? It is VERY MUCH about abortion. And it's about the treatment of RAPE VICTIMS, whose rights Sarah Palin wants to curtail.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
