Reserve Pop in Aircraft

[skyflybabe 0]

I can assure you that it is NOT common practise for people to be told to NOT leave time between exits, especially with strong winds...so please do not think this is usual for the UK! Whoever said that was giving unsafe info to the other skydivers on board. I am based in the UK and it is a well known fact that the stronger the winds, the more time you should give between groups. It is also common here especially in small aircraft like a C206 or an islander than the door will stay open for take off and landings. Several aircraft I have jumped from actually have a sign in the plane that states the door should be open for take off and landing.

[azureriders 0]

I will not argue one way or another about the regs, as I am not qualified to do so, but my safety conscious mind was fine with continuing with the flight.

The load was almost full, the camera guy was sitting by the door facing forward, and he rose up at 3000 agl to get a shot of his customer when his reserve fired, probably from being dragged on the back wall. Sitting beside him, also facing forward, I reacted as fast as I could to contain the PC and pull him close to me and away from the door as Leanne quickly shut the door. But IMO the kudos go to JC, who was sitting in front of me facing aft and was the first to see the PC and alert everyone of the problem in time to react.

The rig was passed to the front where it was hands on contained by an experience skydiver riding copilot.

The video guy is also an AFFI, TM, military free fall instructor and videographer with well over 6000 jumps. He and I both know the owner of the rig he borrowed to be a safe skydiver who maintains his gear well. Although obviously an added risk, IMO the use of a borrowed rig was acceptable.

The now rig less ‘passenger’ moved to the front of the plane and was warned to make sure that no student or tandem pax grabbed him on the way out.

Once again I will not argue with the added risk of the flight, but IMO (read the jump numbers people, they are low for an opinion) it was acceptable to continue flight, and all in all handled as well as could be expected.

A side not for you sparky, Brad is telling you straight. We always check everyone’s chest strap whether asked or not, and if you ask for a ‘pin check’ you are more likely than not to get a full gear check.

Brad, say hi to that hot little wife of yours for me.

[mdrejhon 8]

If the airplane later has a disaster, is it possible to reasonably safely IAD a premature partially-opened reserve? (i.e. PC out, but reserve still in packtray -- I assume the premature reserve wasn't a big mess that it was easily and reasonably safely confined by a skydiver sitting copilot in an aircraft such as Twin Otter, far away from the door)

In case all the skydivers needed to bail and the second last skydiver was available/qualified to IAD (or static line?) him/her?...

[azureriders 0]

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If the airplane later has a disaster, is it possible to reasonably safely IAD a premature partially-opened reserve?

I couldn't say. Sparky?

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I assume the premature reserve wasn't a big mess

Correct. Only the PC and I would guess about 1/2 the reserve bridle was out.

[Scrumpot 1]

Pssst, hint: "Babe"... You want a better reply to Bill if you have taken offense at what you see as a blanket implication in his previous post on the subject matter (of planning for separation)? Instead retort by asking him how many jumpers at Perris on jumprun still espouse "the 45' rule".

-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[billvon 2,990]

>I can assure you that it is NOT common practise for people to be
>told to NOT leave time between exits . . .

Not saying it is. But as mentioned above, I've had people tell me that they use the 45 degree rule, that they put freeflyers out first "for safety," that high winds mean no delay between groups, and that you could open the door right after takeoff but had to leave your seatbelt on until 2000 feet ("in case you fall out" of course.)

Moral of the story is to check beforehand what a DZ's policy's are, so that you can either take them into account when planning your jump or jump elsewhere if you so choose.

[mattaman 0]

The point is not that it happened, its how it happened. I had this happen in an otter in perris about seven years ago, I leaned forward at alt to start getting ready and my container came open, I had done a gear check on the ground. It opened because I'd been lazily sitting back in the "cool" position at the back of the plane, if this would've happened a couple of minutes later, wow. When you lean back in the airplane, it is possible to push the pin up and out, very very rare, but does happen. Be careful, death is imminant, you do have some choice in when and how!

Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

[mjosparky 4]

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If the airplane later has a disaster, is it possible to reasonably safely IAD a premature partially-opened reserve?

I take it you have never been aboard an AC that has experienced an in flight emergency. They can be any thing from causal to chaotic. They happen very rarely and the chances of one accruing during that flight were probably very slim.

But you can be pretty sure if the pilot yells everyone out, the guy sitting there holding the fired reserve rig is not going to get IAD’d for shit. Are you going to be the one that waits while he puts the rig on, you get control of the canopy, lines, bag, PC/bridle and then walk to the door and put him out? Now remember there is an in-flight emergency going on, the plane will probably not be flying nice and level. Makes a good movie plot but not a good real life idea.

In my opinion the flight should be terminated and RTB. This is recreation for Christ sake, you are not searching for a cure for cancer. Delaying the jump for 20 minutes is not that big of a deal.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[bigdad510 1]

I've read a couple a things from people on in-flight emergencies and what would happen and all that. The jumper without the rig put his seatbelt back on, while the reserve (which wasn't open, just the pc and bridle) was contained. Someone said about bail out. Well the pilot and the "co-pilot" aren't bailing out. The rig-less skydiver is seat belted in.

I guess what I don't understand is everyone’s concern about getting out, and terminated the flight. There isn't a need to terminate the flight if everyone "jumping" has a rig, and everyone "not jumping" is seat belted in. The flight can continue as normal. If there is an emergency, jumpers would bail and on-jumper ride it in.

It would be the sane as if there is an in-flight emergency below 1g and "everyone" has to ride it down.

I guess you would have to have been there. But safety was a concern and all the right people made the right decisions based off of "that" scenario. I agree with sparky and other about safety concerns, but all concerns are always "situational dependent". Some situational dependents" are also considered inherent risks, and a lot of times they go hand-in-hand.

Brad

[mjosparky 4]

Like I said that is just my opinion, nothing more.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[fcajump 164]

Some of us are still stuck on the idea that everyone should be wearing a rig... pilot included...

We've see the results of inadvertant deployments during exit. Pilot rigs have saved some of our number...

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[azureriders 0]

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Some of us are still stuck on the idea that everyone should be wearing a rig... pilot included...

This goes hand and hand with my opinion of continuing the flight. Although I never said it, a large part of my point is that the jumper without the rig was taking no more risk at all than the two people in the cockpit. Now if you think they should be wearing a rig, well I could be inclined to agree.

Sparky,
Although I respect your opinion, I don't see the point of stoping the flight, unless once on the ground you also outfit the pilot / copilot with a rig. Ofcourse that is just my opinion.

[bob.dino 1]

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...the jumper without the rig was taking no more risk at all than the two people in the cockpit. Now if you think they should be wearing a rig, well I could be inclined to agree.

It's a good idea for jump pilots to wear bailout rigs. The rules in Australia are in the process of changing so that all pilots must wear rigs.

[riggerrob 643]

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...the jumper without the rig was taking no more risk at all than the two people in the cockpit. Now if you think they should be wearing a rig, well I could be inclined to agree.

It's a good idea for jump pilots to wear bailout rigs. The rules in Australia are in the process of changing so that all pilots must wear rigs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It is difficult or impossible to bail out of many twin-engined jump planes.
For example, while Twin Otter pilots may have their own doors, those doors are directly in front of the propellers. Also Twin Otter pilot seats are configured for seat packs. Try finding a rigger with a "seat" endorsement these days!
Hee!
Hee!

[bob.dino 1]

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It is difficult or impossible to bail out of many twin-engined jump planes
For example, while Twin Otter pilots may have their own doors, those doors are directly in front of the propellers.

There's always the back door, right? That's where Baz exited when the Caravan lost its tail.

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Also Twin Otter pilot seats are configured for seat packs. Try finding a rigger with a "seat" endorsement these days!

I'm not sure how comfortable it is, but the Otter, XL, and Skyvan pilots wear back-type bailout rigs containing squares.

[mjosparky 4]

As I posted earlier, have you ever been in an aircraft during an inflight emergency? I have. You never know when or where something like this will happen to the plane you are in.

If the pilots do not have rigs that does not mean I don't want one.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[phoenixlpr 0]

Those images are quite shocking.

[mjosparky 4]

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Those images are quite shocking.

That plane was flown by 2 of the best pilots in the world and they both were wearing rigs.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skydiverek 63]

This is the end result of the tandem pair hang-up over and under the tail ... (Attached). There was a great pic in Skydiving magazine from below (camerman persepctive) of the tandem pair dangling from the tail.

[fcajump 164]

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It is difficult or impossible to bail out of many twin-engined jump planes
For example, while Twin Otter pilots may have their own doors, those doors are directly in front of the propellers.

There's always the back door, right? That's where Baz exited when the Caravan lost its tail.

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Also Twin Otter pilot seats are configured for seat packs. Try finding a rigger with a "seat" endorsement these days!

I'm not sure how comfortable it is, but the Otter, XL, and Skyvan pilots wear back-type bailout rigs containing squares.

I suspect a quick look at the certs held by the riggers involved in this discussion, you would find several (myself included) who are seat rated...

I've also done a seminar on Square PEPs... Packing them is nothing special. (Who should / should not wear them is a completely different topic... that has already been (thr)hashed out on other discussions.)

Dino... you mentioned pending rules for all pilots to wear 'chutes... was that ALL pilots, or all jump pilots?

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[billvon 2,990]

Looks even worse than our student-in-tow incident! In our case, the King Air's tail remained intact, but the right side horizontal stab was bent inwards into the tail, locking the elevator in the "down" position. Fortunately, we had two pilots flying that day, and they were able to pull hard enough to break the linkage between the two elevators and regain control of the right side elevator. This gave them enough pitch authority to land the plane.

Afterwards both pilots said that if they had known the damage was so bad they would have set the autopilot for Hawaii and bailed out.

[DSE 5]

Fortunately, that plane is still flying...I've had the unpleasant experience of a premature container opening cause my helmet to now have permanently embedded paint in it, that perfectly matches the blue paint on the body of that King. That a/c has been through a lot in it's life time, eh, Sparky?

[mjosparky 4]

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Fortunately, that plane is still flying...I've had the unpleasant experience of a premature container opening cause my helmet to now have permanently embedded paint in it, that perfectly matches the blue paint on the body of that King. That a/c has been through a lot in it's life time, eh, Sparky?

Just a few months after thoses pictures were taken I was back in it doing tests. Flew as good as ever. Wish I could say the same for Joe.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[bob.dino 1]

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Dino... you mentioned pending rules for all pilots to wear 'chutes... was that ALL pilots, or all jump pilots?

All jump pilots operating under the auspices of the APF. Which is 99.9% of those in Australia.

This rule is in progress, and should become effective just before the end of the year.

[fcajump 164]

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Dino... you mentioned pending rules for all pilots to wear 'chutes... was that ALL pilots, or all jump pilots?

All jump pilots operating under the auspices of the APF. Which is 99.9% of those in Australia.

This rule is in progress, and should become effective just before the end of the year.

Ah... was wondering who had cornered the market on PEP sales (if it applied to ALL pilots).

Personally, I think that rule is the way to go...

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...