DSE 5 #26 September 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteMcCain's campaign think they're gonna woo away disaffected female Hillary supporters with this Stepford Wife I really dont think the GOP chose her to gain acceptance with women. I think it was a very obvious selection to appease the far right conservatives of the party who though McCain was too centrist for them. I think you're right, Remi. That said, she also appeals to 18 year old male voters, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #27 September 9, 2008 Quote Quote A rape victim: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? That’s another thread. You can read what I have written. We disagree. I just can’t imagine the audacity to look in to a 13-14 year olds eye. Who has been rapped by a family member and say hey it’s not over your going to have to put your life on hold and have the baby. Yes the baby of the horrible person who raped you it’s the LAW. I don’t believe anyone has that right. Quote They would be praying for them out of compassion and care beause they want everyone to be saved. You know that’s insulting to me a straight dude. I am sure there are plenty of Gay people who don’t feel they need to be saved from something wrong. I am sure there not sitting there feeling like they have a disease. Quote Also, abstinence is not an unrealistic idea. All because some cannot restrain themselves doesn't mean nobody can! That’s a great idea. I can hear the conversation now. What Abstinence has failed miserable but worked for a small percentage great idea lets make it mandatory for all. I don’t know about you but religious ideas have no place in policy. Abstinence is a religious idea. Hey did it work for you? Who the hell said anything about anything being maditory? I believe this is you!!!! You want to trump a parrents choice of education because of what you believe. YOU take the parents rights because of what YOU believe! You complain about trashing the Constitution. What the hell do you call this????????? YOU want manditory sex ed. To be taught the way YOU believe because YOU know what is best and what works and what doesnt. Dam, talk about manditory"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #28 September 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteYes. because of your mischaracterization of her. Most do not see her as extreeem and she is not. But, the left has to make it seem she is Dude just look at her family, Enough said for me. I will take hers over Obamas any day. Enough said for me"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #29 September 9, 2008 Ok I am going to try this once. The reason I don’t like her is not just because she disagrees with me. It is that when she disagrees with me she wants to force her beliefs on me, when I disagree with her she can still do what she wish’s in her personal life. Do you see the big difference? You want to believe in abstinence fine you are welcome to teach it to your kids, however you can’t make it a policy to teach it to my kids. You don’t believe in abortion, great don’t get one. You don’t believe in gay marriage, fine if your gay pray it away or don’t get married. That’s the fundamental issue I have with the religious right. If they win they force their views on me, if my point of view wins they can still do as they wish they just can’t force it on others. For the love of god please tell me you get what I am saying.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #30 September 9, 2008 QuoteYOU want manditory sex ed. To be taught the way YOU believe because YOU know what is best and what works and what doesnt. John is that you? I want people to have the right to choose what they want thought to their kids. Personally I think sexual education should be thought by the parents period, but this is not the dictatorship of Darius so I believe people should have the right to make a choice. If it is going to be thought in schools then all should be thought with the real related data of what works or has worked and what does not.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #31 September 9, 2008 QuoteSo if you 12,13,14 year old would ask you about sex you would say find out for your self? or just don't have any ever until you are married? Do you think that would work?*** Of course the first thing you would tell your child is not to have sex. But......... you would also say if you did have sex, the importance of using condoms and why you should use them. This same logic applies to drinking. I would expect you not to drink but if you did, do not drive or ride with anyone who has. The FACT of the matter is kids will drink, have sex, and do other crazy things that kids did a thousands years before and will be doing after we are long gone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #32 September 9, 2008 Quote Ok I am going to try this once. The reason I don’t like her is not just because she disagrees with me. It is that when she disagrees with me she wants to force her beliefs on me, when I disagree with her she can still do what she wish’s in her personal life.Where does she say or prove this? Seems like paranoia to me Do you see the big difference? You want to believe in abstinence fine you are welcome to teach it to your kids, however you can’t make it a policy to teach it to my kids.Why not? Your side wants to push sex ed on my kids! And they have!You don’t believe in abortion, great don’t get one. Didnt say that, I am pro life. I do not think that I can have a say what another wants to do . I am however against federal funding of abortion clinics You don’t believe in gay marriage, fine if your gay pray it away or don’t get married.I did not say that. That has not been to point of this thread has it. That’s the fundamental issue I have with the religious right. If they win they force their views on me, if my point of view wins they can still do as they wish they just can’t force it on others.More "forcing" has been done by the anti christian forces than from the right it seems to me For the love of god please tell me you get what I am saying. I get it. I dont think you do"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #33 September 9, 2008 QuoteMore "forcing" has been done by the anti christian forces than from the right it seems to me like what?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #34 September 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteOk I am going to try this once. The reason I don’t like her is not just because she disagrees with me. It is that when she disagrees with me she wants to force her beliefs on me, when I disagree with her she can still do what she wish’s in her personal life.Where does she say or prove this? Seems like paranoia to me Maybe he's read the official Republican Party Platform for 2008; it's apparent that you haven't.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #35 September 9, 2008 Quote but early in her administration she supported a bill to overrule a court decision to block state benefits for gay partners of public employees. You might want to check that out a bit more closely. Prior to becoming Governor, she supported a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman. Later, the Alaskan Supreme Court ruled that such a definition did not preclude the granting of benefits to same-sex partners and that denial of such benefits violated their Equal Protection clause. Palin argued that when voters approved the amendment, they thought they were denying benefits too, but that was not obvious in the legislation. With her hands tied, she vetoed a bill that would have denied such benefits because it was unconstitutional, she let stand a resolution encouraging the court to delay implementation of such benefits, and she signed into law a bill calling for a statewide advisory vote on the provision of same-sex partner benefits. Bottom line? Her actions have been about as anti-gay rights as she could make them. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ion01 2 #36 September 9, 2008 I would still like a direct answer to this question: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? Also, abstinence did work for both me and my wife. I am also not advicating it be enforced by law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #37 September 9, 2008 I am afraid of the religious right taking over this country. I laughed when I read this. You should be afraid of the religious right taking back this country. Holy crap! Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God We Trust...umm..how about When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them or perhaps "one nation, under god" It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in politics. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but every candidate I can remember always ends his speeches with "God bless America".Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #38 September 9, 2008 QuoteI would still like a direct answer to this question: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? I would still like a direct answer to this question: Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes, I realize it's a bogus question, but so is your's. In the same way that I should demonstrate that you were beating your wife in the first place before asking my question, you need to first demonstrate that the tissue attached to a rape victim's uterus is, in fact, a person. In my opinion, this cannot be proven one way or the other to the satisfaction of all, therefore a reasonable person would let others make up their own minds. Alternately, why should a rape victim have to suffer through even more physical and emotional trauma than she's already experienced? Shouldn't we try to minimize her pain to the extent practicable (but only so far as her beliefs allow)? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #39 September 10, 2008 Quote I am afraid of the religious right taking over this country. I laughed when I read this. You should be afraid of the religious right taking back this country. Holy crap! Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God We Trust...umm..how about When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them or perhaps "one nation, under god" It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in politics. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but every candidate I can remember always ends his speeches with "God bless America". Great great post"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #40 September 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteI would still like a direct answer to this question: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? I would still like a direct answer to this question: Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes, I realize it's a bogus question, but so is your's. In the same way that I should demonstrate that you were beating your wife in the first place before asking my question, you need to first demonstrate that the tissue attached to a rape victim's uterus is, in fact, a person. In my opinion, this cannot be proven one way or the other to the satisfaction of all, therefore a reasonable person would let others make up their own minds. Alternately, why should a rape victim have to suffer through even more physical and emotional trauma than she's already experienced? Shouldn't we try to minimize her pain to the extent practicable (but only so far as her beliefs allow)? Blues, Dave I understand everyone's concern with Palin's pro-life/no exceptions stance. I have a problem with it. But it's not gonna happen. I don't think the government will ever attempt to take that right away from womenPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites funjumper101 15 #41 September 10, 2008 QuoteI want people to have the right to choose what they want thought to their kids. This use of the word "thought" is a very revealing insight as to what kind of control some people think they should have over their kids. The reality is pretty creepy. These people think that they should have control over their kid's thoughts. I find that to be quite scary and a demonstration of anti-American values. That shit doesn't work. Palin's 17 year old daughter is a perfect example of reality, the real one, not the fake one the righties try to bring about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites funjumper101 15 #42 September 10, 2008 Quote Quote I am afraid of the religious right taking over this country. I laughed when I read this. You should be afraid of the religious right taking back this country. Holy crap! Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God We Trust...umm..how about When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them or perhaps "one nation, under god" It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in politics. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but every candidate I can remember always ends his speeches with "God bless America". Great great post Factually incorrect, but if you are a righty, inconvenient things like "facts" aren't going to stop you from writing and/or supporting balderdash like this. Jump on the bandwagon of ignorance. Y'all have lots of company. Remember, half of the population has less than average intelligence. The support for McSame/Caribou Barbie is proving that point in spades... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #43 September 10, 2008 Quote Quote Quote I am afraid of the religious right taking over this country. I laughed when I read this. You should be afraid of the religious right taking back this country. Holy crap! Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God We Trust...umm..how about When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them or perhaps "one nation, under god" It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in politics. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but every candidate I can remember always ends his speeches with "God bless America". Great great post Factually incorrect, but if you are a righty, inconvenient things like "facts" aren't going to stop you from writing and/or supporting balderdash like this. Jump on the bandwagon of ignorance. Y'all have lots of company. Remember, half of the population has less than average intelligence. The support for McSame/Caribou Barbie is proving that point in spades... LOFL\ Factually???? See billvons thread on arrogance and elitism.... Factually?????? You want facts? YOU had better look into the "stories" about your greatest liberal nightmare Mrs Palin. Book banning? a joke as debunked by Snopes and news orgs Eliminating contraceptive funding? She trippled it. Eliminiating funds for the learning impared? More than trippled it. Praying away the gays? Better see the latest credible news reports. Be afraid. Be very very afraid. She might just be the firest US woman pres. But, I will await your facts"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #44 September 10, 2008 QuoteBook banning? a joke as debunked by Snopes and news orgs A supposed list of specific books was not true. The correct new report: QuoteAnd for some, Ms. Palin’s first months in office here were so jarring — and so alienating — that an effort was made to force a recall. About 100 people attended a meeting to discuss the effort, which was covered in the local press, but the idea was dropped. Shortly after becoming mayor, former city officials and Wasilla residents said, Ms. Palin approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books, though she never followed through and it was unclear which books or passages were in question. Ann Kilkenny, a Democrat who said she attended every City Council meeting in Ms. Palin’s first year in office, said Ms. Palin brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting. “They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her,” Ms. Kilkenny said. The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to “resist all efforts at censorship,” Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article. ...is quite true. You twist the truth with a dishonesty you (apparently) seem to think serves you well.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #45 September 10, 2008 Quote Quote Book banning? a joke as debunked by Snopes and news orgs A supposed list of specific books was not true. The correct new report: Quote And for some, Ms. Palin’s first months in office here were so jarring — and so alienating — that an effort was made to force a recall. About 100 people attended a meeting to discuss the effort, which was covered in the local press, but the idea was dropped. Shortly after becoming mayor, former city officials and Wasilla residents said, Ms. Palin approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books, though she never followed through and it was unclear which books or passages were in question. Ann Kilkenny, a Democrat who said she attended every City Council meeting in Ms. Palin’s first year in office, said Ms. Palin brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting. “They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her,” Ms. Kilkenny said. The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to “resist all efforts at censorship,” Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article. ...is quite true. You twist the truth with the dishonesty you are well know for. Show me where or how? Not my intent You do know that the books that she is claimed to try and have banned were published AFTER she left officeYou lefies are desperate and funnyYOU post the FIRST report. Not the latest Not to mention that the librairan in this articel left office AFTER Palin You cant make this stuff up"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MegaGoliath11 0 #46 September 10, 2008 Quote Quote Quote A rape victim: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? That’s another thread. You can read what I have written. We disagree. I just can’t imagine the audacity to look in to a 13-14 year olds eye. Who has been rapped by a family member and say hey it’s not over your going to have to put your life on hold and have the baby. Yes the baby of the horrible person who raped you it’s the LAW. I don’t believe anyone has that right. Quote They would be praying for them out of compassion and care beause they want everyone to be saved. You know that’s insulting to me a straight dude. I am sure there are plenty of Gay people who don’t feel they need to be saved from something wrong. I am sure there not sitting there feeling like they have a disease. Quote Also, abstinence is not an unrealistic idea. All because some cannot restrain themselves doesn't mean nobody can! That’s a great idea. I can hear the conversation now. What Abstinence has failed miserable but worked for a small percentage great idea lets make it mandatory for all. I don’t know about you but religious ideas have no place in policy. Abstinence is a religious idea. Hey did it work for you? Who the hell said anything about anything being maditory? I believe this is you!!!! You want to trump a parrents choice of education because of what you believe. YOU take the parents rights because of what YOU believe! You complain about trashing the Constitution. What the hell do you call this????????? YOU want manditory sex ed. To be taught the way YOU believe because YOU know what is best and what works and what doesnt. Dam, talk about manditory Ok Rush I'm going to go after you with an Ad Hominem, Republican style, Have you ever heard of spellcheck? it's "mandatory" since you spelled it wrong four or five times I must assume that you really don't know how to spell it, which seriously questions my ability and desire to take you seriously. From reading all your posts I think you are one of the folks who vote and don't really know the issues that well much less the candidates, You just pick a side and attack, republican style, typical stuff man, polarize the issue and dumb it down to wrong vs. right. Remember "there is no liberal of conservative America, only a United States of America" Obama 2004 DNC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,006 #47 September 10, 2008 > Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God >We Trust...umm. . . . 52 years ago. >"one nation, under god" 54 years ago. >It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in >politics. Actually, depending on how old you are, it's likely that, within your lifetime, religion has made the advances into government you tout as being there all along. We've gone from a secular government (something that the founding fathers made VERY clear) to one with a more religious lean. It is certainly not the most religious out there, but it is also getting farther and farther from being secular. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #48 September 10, 2008 Quote> Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God >We Trust...umm. . . . 52 years ago. >"one nation, under god" 54 years ago. >It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in >politics. Actually, depending on how old you are, it's likely that, within your lifetime, religion has made the advances into government you tout as being there all along. We've gone from a secular government (something that the founding fathers made VERY clear) to one with a more religious lean. It is certainly not the most religious out there, but it is also getting farther and farther from being secular. Bill you know as well as I do that this country was founded on christian beliefs. You'd have to be blind to miss that. References towards God and christianity have gone hand in hand with every administration. Second Inaugural Address of Abraham Lincoln SATURDAY, MARCH 4, 1865 ...With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in Inaugural Address of John F. Kennedy FRIDAY, JANUARY 20, 1961 For I have sworn before you and Almighty God the same solemn oath our forebears prescribed nearly a century and three quarters ago. http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presiden/inaug/inaug.htm Even the President's Oath of Office is recited with a hand on the bible.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #49 September 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteI would still like a direct answer to this question: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? I would still like a direct answer to this question: Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes, I realize it's a bogus question, but so is your's. In the same way that I should demonstrate that you were beating your wife in the first place before asking my question, you need to first demonstrate that the tissue attached to a rape victim's uterus is, in fact, a person. In my opinion, this cannot be proven one way or the other to the satisfaction of all, therefore a reasonable person would let others make up their own minds. Alternately, why should a rape victim have to suffer through even more physical and emotional trauma than she's already experienced? Shouldn't we try to minimize her pain to the extent practicable (but only so far as her beliefs allow)? Blues, Dave I understand everyone's concern with Palin's pro-life/no exceptions stance. I have a problem with it. But it's not gonna happen. I don't think the government will ever attempt to take that right away from women It IS part of the official 2008 Republican Party Platform. So they sure WANT to do it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #50 September 10, 2008 QuoteQuote> Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God >We Trust...umm. . . . 52 years ago. >"one nation, under god" 54 years ago. >It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in >politics. Actually, depending on how old you are, it's likely that, within your lifetime, religion has made the advances into government you tout as being there all along. We've gone from a secular government (something that the founding fathers made VERY clear) to one with a more religious lean. It is certainly not the most religious out there, but it is also getting farther and farther from being secular. Bill you know as well as I do that this country was founded on christian beliefs. You'd have to be blind to miss that. References towards God and christianity have gone hand in hand with every administration. Treaty between the USA and Tripoli, Article. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. Ratified by UNANIMOUS vote of the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by President John Adams on June 10, 1797.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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livendive 8 #35 September 9, 2008 Quote but early in her administration she supported a bill to overrule a court decision to block state benefits for gay partners of public employees. You might want to check that out a bit more closely. Prior to becoming Governor, she supported a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman. Later, the Alaskan Supreme Court ruled that such a definition did not preclude the granting of benefits to same-sex partners and that denial of such benefits violated their Equal Protection clause. Palin argued that when voters approved the amendment, they thought they were denying benefits too, but that was not obvious in the legislation. With her hands tied, she vetoed a bill that would have denied such benefits because it was unconstitutional, she let stand a resolution encouraging the court to delay implementation of such benefits, and she signed into law a bill calling for a statewide advisory vote on the provision of same-sex partner benefits. Bottom line? Her actions have been about as anti-gay rights as she could make them. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ion01 2 #36 September 9, 2008 I would still like a direct answer to this question: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? Also, abstinence did work for both me and my wife. I am also not advicating it be enforced by law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #37 September 9, 2008 I am afraid of the religious right taking over this country. I laughed when I read this. You should be afraid of the religious right taking back this country. Holy crap! Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God We Trust...umm..how about When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them or perhaps "one nation, under god" It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in politics. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but every candidate I can remember always ends his speeches with "God bless America".Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #38 September 9, 2008 QuoteI would still like a direct answer to this question: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? I would still like a direct answer to this question: Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes, I realize it's a bogus question, but so is your's. In the same way that I should demonstrate that you were beating your wife in the first place before asking my question, you need to first demonstrate that the tissue attached to a rape victim's uterus is, in fact, a person. In my opinion, this cannot be proven one way or the other to the satisfaction of all, therefore a reasonable person would let others make up their own minds. Alternately, why should a rape victim have to suffer through even more physical and emotional trauma than she's already experienced? Shouldn't we try to minimize her pain to the extent practicable (but only so far as her beliefs allow)? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #39 September 10, 2008 Quote I am afraid of the religious right taking over this country. I laughed when I read this. You should be afraid of the religious right taking back this country. Holy crap! Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God We Trust...umm..how about When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them or perhaps "one nation, under god" It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in politics. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but every candidate I can remember always ends his speeches with "God bless America". Great great post"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #40 September 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteI would still like a direct answer to this question: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? I would still like a direct answer to this question: Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes, I realize it's a bogus question, but so is your's. In the same way that I should demonstrate that you were beating your wife in the first place before asking my question, you need to first demonstrate that the tissue attached to a rape victim's uterus is, in fact, a person. In my opinion, this cannot be proven one way or the other to the satisfaction of all, therefore a reasonable person would let others make up their own minds. Alternately, why should a rape victim have to suffer through even more physical and emotional trauma than she's already experienced? Shouldn't we try to minimize her pain to the extent practicable (but only so far as her beliefs allow)? Blues, Dave I understand everyone's concern with Palin's pro-life/no exceptions stance. I have a problem with it. But it's not gonna happen. I don't think the government will ever attempt to take that right away from womenPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #41 September 10, 2008 QuoteI want people to have the right to choose what they want thought to their kids. This use of the word "thought" is a very revealing insight as to what kind of control some people think they should have over their kids. The reality is pretty creepy. These people think that they should have control over their kid's thoughts. I find that to be quite scary and a demonstration of anti-American values. That shit doesn't work. Palin's 17 year old daughter is a perfect example of reality, the real one, not the fake one the righties try to bring about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #42 September 10, 2008 Quote Quote I am afraid of the religious right taking over this country. I laughed when I read this. You should be afraid of the religious right taking back this country. Holy crap! Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God We Trust...umm..how about When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them or perhaps "one nation, under god" It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in politics. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but every candidate I can remember always ends his speeches with "God bless America". Great great post Factually incorrect, but if you are a righty, inconvenient things like "facts" aren't going to stop you from writing and/or supporting balderdash like this. Jump on the bandwagon of ignorance. Y'all have lots of company. Remember, half of the population has less than average intelligence. The support for McSame/Caribou Barbie is proving that point in spades... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #43 September 10, 2008 Quote Quote Quote I am afraid of the religious right taking over this country. I laughed when I read this. You should be afraid of the religious right taking back this country. Holy crap! Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God We Trust...umm..how about When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them or perhaps "one nation, under god" It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in politics. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but every candidate I can remember always ends his speeches with "God bless America". Great great post Factually incorrect, but if you are a righty, inconvenient things like "facts" aren't going to stop you from writing and/or supporting balderdash like this. Jump on the bandwagon of ignorance. Y'all have lots of company. Remember, half of the population has less than average intelligence. The support for McSame/Caribou Barbie is proving that point in spades... LOFL\ Factually???? See billvons thread on arrogance and elitism.... Factually?????? You want facts? YOU had better look into the "stories" about your greatest liberal nightmare Mrs Palin. Book banning? a joke as debunked by Snopes and news orgs Eliminating contraceptive funding? She trippled it. Eliminiating funds for the learning impared? More than trippled it. Praying away the gays? Better see the latest credible news reports. Be afraid. Be very very afraid. She might just be the firest US woman pres. But, I will await your facts"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #44 September 10, 2008 QuoteBook banning? a joke as debunked by Snopes and news orgs A supposed list of specific books was not true. The correct new report: QuoteAnd for some, Ms. Palin’s first months in office here were so jarring — and so alienating — that an effort was made to force a recall. About 100 people attended a meeting to discuss the effort, which was covered in the local press, but the idea was dropped. Shortly after becoming mayor, former city officials and Wasilla residents said, Ms. Palin approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books, though she never followed through and it was unclear which books or passages were in question. Ann Kilkenny, a Democrat who said she attended every City Council meeting in Ms. Palin’s first year in office, said Ms. Palin brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting. “They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her,” Ms. Kilkenny said. The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to “resist all efforts at censorship,” Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article. ...is quite true. You twist the truth with a dishonesty you (apparently) seem to think serves you well.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #45 September 10, 2008 Quote Quote Book banning? a joke as debunked by Snopes and news orgs A supposed list of specific books was not true. The correct new report: Quote And for some, Ms. Palin’s first months in office here were so jarring — and so alienating — that an effort was made to force a recall. About 100 people attended a meeting to discuss the effort, which was covered in the local press, but the idea was dropped. Shortly after becoming mayor, former city officials and Wasilla residents said, Ms. Palin approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books, though she never followed through and it was unclear which books or passages were in question. Ann Kilkenny, a Democrat who said she attended every City Council meeting in Ms. Palin’s first year in office, said Ms. Palin brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting. “They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her,” Ms. Kilkenny said. The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to “resist all efforts at censorship,” Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article. ...is quite true. You twist the truth with the dishonesty you are well know for. Show me where or how? Not my intent You do know that the books that she is claimed to try and have banned were published AFTER she left officeYou lefies are desperate and funnyYOU post the FIRST report. Not the latest Not to mention that the librairan in this articel left office AFTER Palin You cant make this stuff up"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MegaGoliath11 0 #46 September 10, 2008 Quote Quote Quote A rape victim: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? That’s another thread. You can read what I have written. We disagree. I just can’t imagine the audacity to look in to a 13-14 year olds eye. Who has been rapped by a family member and say hey it’s not over your going to have to put your life on hold and have the baby. Yes the baby of the horrible person who raped you it’s the LAW. I don’t believe anyone has that right. Quote They would be praying for them out of compassion and care beause they want everyone to be saved. You know that’s insulting to me a straight dude. I am sure there are plenty of Gay people who don’t feel they need to be saved from something wrong. I am sure there not sitting there feeling like they have a disease. Quote Also, abstinence is not an unrealistic idea. All because some cannot restrain themselves doesn't mean nobody can! That’s a great idea. I can hear the conversation now. What Abstinence has failed miserable but worked for a small percentage great idea lets make it mandatory for all. I don’t know about you but religious ideas have no place in policy. Abstinence is a religious idea. Hey did it work for you? Who the hell said anything about anything being maditory? I believe this is you!!!! You want to trump a parrents choice of education because of what you believe. YOU take the parents rights because of what YOU believe! You complain about trashing the Constitution. What the hell do you call this????????? YOU want manditory sex ed. To be taught the way YOU believe because YOU know what is best and what works and what doesnt. Dam, talk about manditory Ok Rush I'm going to go after you with an Ad Hominem, Republican style, Have you ever heard of spellcheck? it's "mandatory" since you spelled it wrong four or five times I must assume that you really don't know how to spell it, which seriously questions my ability and desire to take you seriously. From reading all your posts I think you are one of the folks who vote and don't really know the issues that well much less the candidates, You just pick a side and attack, republican style, typical stuff man, polarize the issue and dumb it down to wrong vs. right. Remember "there is no liberal of conservative America, only a United States of America" Obama 2004 DNC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #47 September 10, 2008 > Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God >We Trust...umm. . . . 52 years ago. >"one nation, under god" 54 years ago. >It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in >politics. Actually, depending on how old you are, it's likely that, within your lifetime, religion has made the advances into government you tout as being there all along. We've gone from a secular government (something that the founding fathers made VERY clear) to one with a more religious lean. It is certainly not the most religious out there, but it is also getting farther and farther from being secular. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #48 September 10, 2008 Quote> Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God >We Trust...umm. . . . 52 years ago. >"one nation, under god" 54 years ago. >It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in >politics. Actually, depending on how old you are, it's likely that, within your lifetime, religion has made the advances into government you tout as being there all along. We've gone from a secular government (something that the founding fathers made VERY clear) to one with a more religious lean. It is certainly not the most religious out there, but it is also getting farther and farther from being secular. Bill you know as well as I do that this country was founded on christian beliefs. You'd have to be blind to miss that. References towards God and christianity have gone hand in hand with every administration. Second Inaugural Address of Abraham Lincoln SATURDAY, MARCH 4, 1865 ...With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in Inaugural Address of John F. Kennedy FRIDAY, JANUARY 20, 1961 For I have sworn before you and Almighty God the same solemn oath our forebears prescribed nearly a century and three quarters ago. http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presiden/inaug/inaug.htm Even the President's Oath of Office is recited with a hand on the bible.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #49 September 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteI would still like a direct answer to this question: Why should a innocent person DIE (the unborn child) because someone else did something wrong? I would still like a direct answer to this question: Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes, I realize it's a bogus question, but so is your's. In the same way that I should demonstrate that you were beating your wife in the first place before asking my question, you need to first demonstrate that the tissue attached to a rape victim's uterus is, in fact, a person. In my opinion, this cannot be proven one way or the other to the satisfaction of all, therefore a reasonable person would let others make up their own minds. Alternately, why should a rape victim have to suffer through even more physical and emotional trauma than she's already experienced? Shouldn't we try to minimize her pain to the extent practicable (but only so far as her beliefs allow)? Blues, Dave I understand everyone's concern with Palin's pro-life/no exceptions stance. I have a problem with it. But it's not gonna happen. I don't think the government will ever attempt to take that right away from women It IS part of the official 2008 Republican Party Platform. So they sure WANT to do it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #50 September 10, 2008 QuoteQuote> Where do you think this country was 200 years ago? Let's see...In God >We Trust...umm. . . . 52 years ago. >"one nation, under god" 54 years ago. >It's only been in my lifetime that religion has taken a back seat in >politics. Actually, depending on how old you are, it's likely that, within your lifetime, religion has made the advances into government you tout as being there all along. We've gone from a secular government (something that the founding fathers made VERY clear) to one with a more religious lean. It is certainly not the most religious out there, but it is also getting farther and farther from being secular. Bill you know as well as I do that this country was founded on christian beliefs. You'd have to be blind to miss that. References towards God and christianity have gone hand in hand with every administration. Treaty between the USA and Tripoli, Article. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. Ratified by UNANIMOUS vote of the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by President John Adams on June 10, 1797.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
