The Biggest/Best Reason NOT to Vote for Obama

[airdvr 210]

This is not a popularity contest. Bush has made decisions that have not set well with other countries. I don't remember the presidential oath reading "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, so long as the rest of the world thinks it's OK.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 23]

Quote

This is not a popularity contest. Bush has made decisions that have not set well with other countries. I don't remember the presidential oath reading "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, so long as the rest of the world thinks it's OK.

Exactly

I do not think however, that the US is as "hated" as many like to say. I feel it is a sound bite to try and persuade on an emotional level.

So then, when the argument is brushed away they can say, I care, you dont.

They also like the say what would be so bad if the rest of the world liked the US? Well nothing, as long as we are not giving away our securities.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[alw 0]

Just got back from Germany this morning. Had lunch and dinner with collegues from Germany and the topic swung to the elections in the USA. The concensus around the table (Mostly scientists and engineers) was that McCain is desirable because he is a known quantity.

What was very surprising was that several of the older people brought up their concern he was similar to Kennedy. Having thought they the Germans loved JFK I asked what the concern was. It seems the comparison was around the extent of experience and the current world situation. I went something like this (and yes, I am paraphrasing).

Kennedy had military experience but it was somewhat limited. He was a man of character but limited life experience and less world experience and didn't understand world politics. When he took office he abandoned the allies Eisenhower has made in Cuba (referring to the fact that Kennedy did not follow through on Ike's promise to back the invasion of at the Bay of Pigs). With a rising Russia (they stated that they never considered the Soviet Union anything but Russia) Kennedy failed to see the bigger picture. Interestingly their point was that Kennedy was inadvertantly the root of the Cuban Missile cirsis and the resolution of that crisis was like being the hero by putting out a fire that you started.

They continued by stating that world politics are to them very much like the late 50's early 60's except that Europe is not in shambles, but America could take Europe back to conflict if we don't read the situation properly. Failing to follow through with commitments in the Middle East and the caususes are unknown with Obama. His positions seem to shift with politics much like Kenedy's did with Cuba.

Listening to this I had to fight back the urge to debate the American solution for the European civil war. Still it was enlightening to get their reasoning for seeing McCain as the better of the two from their perspective.

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Just got back from Germany this morning. Had lunch and dinner with collegues from Germany and the topic swung to the elections in the USA. The concensus around the table (Mostly scientists and engineers) was that McCain is desirable because he is a known quantity.

What was very surprising was that several of the older people brought up their concern he was similar to Kennedy. Having thought they the Germans loved JFK I asked what the concern was. It seems the comparison was around the extent of experience and the current world situation. I went something like this (and yes, I am paraphrasing).

Kennedy had military experience but it was somewhat limited. He was a man of character but limited life experience and less world experience and didn't understand world politics. When he took office he abandoned the allies Eisenhower has made in Cuba (referring to the fact that Kennedy did not follow through on Ike's promise to back the invasion of at the Bay of Pigs). With a rising Russia (they stated that they never considered the Soviet Union anything but Russia) Kennedy failed to see the bigger picture. Interestingly their point was that Kennedy was inadvertantly the root of the Cuban Missile cirsis and the resolution of that crisis was like being the hero by putting out a fire that you started.

They continued by stating that world politics are to them very much like the late 50's early 60's except that Europe is not in shambles, but America could take Europe back to conflict if we don't read the situation properly. Failing to follow through with commitments in the Middle East and the caususes are unknown with Obama. His positions seem to shift with politics much like Kenedy's did with Cuba.

Listening to this I had to fight back the urge to debate the American solution for the European civil war. Still it was enlightening to get their reasoning for seeing McCain as the better of the two from their perspective.

This is interesting

Thanks for taking the time to post.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,006]

>Absolutely not . . . .

Then getting a leader in place that has the respect of the world will help your cause; the article at the top of the page is a reason to vote for him.

> I want someone that has the common sense to not get us into war but
> knows what to do if we end up in one.

Definitely. Which is one reason I am planning to vote for Obama.

[funjumper101 15]

Quote

Quote

This is not a popularity contest. Bush has made decisions that have not set well with other countries. I don't remember the presidential oath reading "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, so long as the rest of the world thinks it's OK.

Exactly

I do not think however, that the US is as "hated" as many like to say. I feel it is a sound bite to try and persuade on an emotional level.

So then, when the argument is brushed away they can say, I care, you dont.

They also like the say what would be so bad if the rest of the world liked the US? Well nothing, as long as we are not giving away our securities.

Do you honestly believe that Shrub really stuck to the oath of office?

If so, I have this bridge for sale in New York. It goes from Manhattan to Brooklyn. I'll sell it to you for the bargain price of 20.00. PM me for details.

As far as the US foreign policy being widely disliked and Shrub being thought of as a buffooon, you must not read much of the overseas press. That is EXACTLY the case for rest of the world. You likely don't have relatives in other countries with whom you communicate regularly. That could help as well. My cousin, who works at The Hague as a lawyer, is a fascinating source of insight as to how the Europeans feel about the USA and our current government.

[Darius11 12]

This is a conversation from another thread. It is relevent to the discussion so i want your opnion on it.

Quote

>They talk about patriotism, Correct me if I am wrong but is her husband not one
>who has been in favor of secession.

Actually, she's been a supporter of the secessionist Alaska Independence Party for years. Their slogan is Alaska First - Alaska Always, and Joe Vogler, the AIP's founder, stated their position succinctly:

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. . .And I won't be buried under their damn flag."

She went to their convention in 2000, and addressed their conventions in 2006 and 2008.

After her nomination she denied any involvement with the radical group. But Dexter Clark, vice-chairman of the AIP, had this to say about the issue:

“She was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town. That was a non-partisan job. But to get along, to go along she eventually joined the Republican Party.”

Why is her patriotism not being questioned?

Obamas reverend has a rant criticizing the US and it is talked about for weeks even months, yet she was a supporter of a group who is for secession yet that’s considered patriotic?


That is my problem as of late with the republican party, they don’t even stand for what they stand for.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[MikeForsythe 0]

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Then getting a leader in place that has the respect of the world will help your cause; the article at the top of the page is a reason to vote for him.

Not at all, it is THEIR reason for voting for him and not OURS or in the best interest for OUR national security. You are also presuming that their choice is based on respect, I don’t think that it is.

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Definitely. Which is one reason I am planning to vote for Obama.

That is fine, I am not. Tell me again what command experience in national security Obama has? I know he has managed his campaign, some committees, congressional staff and some college interns but that does not give me ANY comfort of feeling safer.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[billvon 3,006]

>Tell me again what command experience in national security Obama has?

The same as McCain has - zero.

(And best not go by his military experience, since he was one of the worst in his class.)

[Lucky... 0]

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I have many far better reasons not to vote for him.

Is it because you:

1) Think Bush is doing a great job and McSame is the same as Bush?

2) Like large debts?

3) Think medical care should contimue to be exclusive?

4) Think the world hating us is a good idea?

5) Some other reasons....

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Just got back from Germany this morning. Had lunch and dinner with collegues from Germany and the topic swung to the elections in the USA. The concensus around the table (Mostly scientists and engineers) was that McCain is desirable because he is a known quantity.

What was very surprising was that several of the older people brought up their concern he was similar to Kennedy. Having thought they the Germans loved JFK I asked what the concern was. It seems the comparison was around the extent of experience and the current world situation. I went something like this (and yes, I am paraphrasing).

Kennedy had military experience but it was somewhat limited. He was a man of character but limited life experience and less world experience and didn't understand world politics. When he took office he abandoned the allies Eisenhower has made in Cuba (referring to the fact that Kennedy did not follow through on Ike's promise to back the invasion of at the Bay of Pigs). With a rising Russia (they stated that they never considered the Soviet Union anything but Russia) Kennedy failed to see the bigger picture. Interestingly their point was that Kennedy was inadvertantly the root of the Cuban Missile cirsis and the resolution of that crisis was like being the hero by putting out a fire that you started.

They continued by stating that world politics are to them very much like the late 50's early 60's except that Europe is not in shambles, but America could take Europe back to conflict if we don't read the situation properly. Failing to follow through with commitments in the Middle East and the caususes are unknown with Obama. His positions seem to shift with politics much like Kenedy's did with Cuba.

Listening to this I had to fight back the urge to debate the American solution for the European civil war. Still it was enlightening to get their reasoning for seeing McCain as the better of the two from their perspective.

JFK was a man of character? Gimme a fuckin break. Just like Clinton. A fuckin male whore who disrespected the Oval Office.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[marks2065 0]

Palin was not part of that group she only gave a speech there. her husband was a member for a short time, just like alot of native alaskins, but isn't anymore. just because you talked to a group of people doesn't mean you are part of them.

[billvon 3,006]

>Palin was not part of that group . . .

The vice-chairman of that group disagrees.

[normiss 806]

So that's why the USN recognized his skills???
You can't fairly slam one side of being inaccurate when you return the favor in kind, you know.
Facts

Saying he was a "bad pilot" because of what happened on the USS Forrestal during combat is flat out insane. 2 engine failures were surely his fault though....

[billvon 3,006]

>Saying he was a "bad pilot" because of what happened on the USS Forrestal
>during combat is flat out insane.

I didn't say anything about the Forrestal incident. Feeling a bit defensive?

[marks2065 0]

not according to this articlehttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26524024/

[normiss 806]

not in the least.
I'm actually quite entertained by what each side wants to believe and espouse as truths....

it's all in what we want to see, hear, and believe as true.

[billvon 3,006]

>not in the least.

Good for you!

>I'm actually quite entertained by what each side wants to believe and espouse
>as truths....

I am too. I am especially entertained by the excuses the GOPers are using to explain Palin's antics, after seeing them purple with indignation over the Wright thing.

[Darius11 12]

Quote

her husband was a member for a short time

What is a short time?


Also does a persons significant other have more influence and give a better understanding to who a person is or just a reverend can do that?

My problem is the hypocrisy. I can’t understand how such hypocrites can even look at them selves in the mirror with out some sort of feeling of pain in their gut.

That’s what I find most frustrating.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[gemini 0]

Quote

...Obama, who clearly is a statesman...

LOL Thanks, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Bet you believe everything in TV commercials too!

Blue skies,

Jim

[marks2065 0]

I can't speak for Todd Palin but I would asume that he got out because some of the groups views were not his. Todd signed up in 1995 and 2000 to the Alaskan independance party. did you read http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26524024/? it explains the issue pretty good

[billvon 3,006]

>I can't speak for Todd Palin but I would asume that he got out
>because some of the groups views were not his.

Probably a fair assumption (for both him and his wife.)

>Todd signed up in 1995 . . .

Well, the statement I mentioned previously ("The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government") was made by the AIP's founder in 1991, so presumably something else must have changed his mind.

[marks2065 0]

there are alot of views from every political party that are good and bad. Iam sure you don't believe in all your Parties views. Just because a statement was made (probably caused by someone pissing him off) doesn't mean the entire party is bad. this is a fragment what was it refering to?It is the views of all parties that give us perspective on the big picture.

[billvon 3,006]

>there are alot of views from every political party that are good and bad.

Agreed, and perhaps he liked the good ones enough to be able to stomach the american-hating parts of the platform.

>I am sure you don't believe in all your Parties views.

Well, since I'm registered independent, I'd have to say that I do agree with all my views. But I also agree that even should I vote for a republican or democratic candidate, it would not mean that I agree with everything they said.

[airdvr 210]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4iCDBIAde8

This sounds like a crazy radical!

C'mon....the AIP is a recognized political party in her state. She'd be a fool to ignore them.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne