Sarah Palin KNOWS God's Plan! Pray for a Gas Pipeline!

[billvon 3,006]

>But first...you know Governor Palin was in attendance...how, exactly?

Her regular pastor, Larry Kroon, said she was when he was interviewed by Ben Smith. Of course, I readily admit that you might know better than he; if so, please let us in on your information.

>I've never said that being in a church where radical sermons are
>delivered by guest speakers is a bad thing.

Bravo Sir Anvil! I am impressed by your ability to continually parse it down further. "It's OK to be voluntarily sit through a sermon excusing islamic terrorism as God's judgment if it's from a guest preacher, but not OK to be in a church where the regular pastor once said 'God damn America.' " Got it.

I eagerly await the next refinement of your position.

In the meantime, here's a more reasonable (IMO) take on the situation:


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My first reaction here is that a murderous act of bulldozer hijacking is an extremely unusual instance of what Smith calls, a little too glibly, "terrorist attacks" — as if Brickner went on about how Muslim suicide bombings against Israeli civilians were the Will of Christ. That’s a bit hyperbolic of Smith, and nuance counts on a story like this.

My second reaction is that the tension in Christianity over the heavenly status of the Jews runs very deep into theology. For the record, I come down much more on the side of Calvin, or Philip Rieff, than Luther (or Brickner). But there should be no surprise, as unfortunate as it is, that Jews for Jesus and "many Jewish organizations" share a tremendous antipathy. And generally speaking there is nothing weird about Christians claiming sincerely that people who aren’t Christians will face a divine judgment that good Christians will not. That is a pretty basic tenet of dogmatic Christianity, unless I am strangely mistaken.

But the real question here is whether its specific instantiation here is the sort of thing that we would want to learn that a candidate for the vice presidency of the United States denounced, rejected, or walked out on — prior to becoming a candidate. I’m personally inclined to think that politeness and the ties of friendship tend to keep congregants in the pews when a pastor or preacher or whomever says controversial, weird, or outrageous things. The relationships of power and authority at work there make it very unlikely that any congregant would treat their church like a political zone and take oppositional public action to something he or she found unacceptable or uncomfortable.

So I gave Obama a pass, although of course I was perfectly happy when he repudiated Wright’s sermons, and it seems consonant with that position to give Palin a pass as well. If this is the only anecdote on point that emerges — as opposed to the veritable bandwidth avalanche of Wright-related material — then I don’t see why Palin ‘needs’ to repudiate this specific remark, or why we ‘need’ to urge her to do so. What commentators themselves might ‘need’ to do is repudiate it themselves, just to make matters clear. For now, it’s difficult to imagine that any charge of Christian-driven anti-Semitism will stick. I might have walked out on that sermon, but then again I never would have walked in to Palin’s particular church. As it stands, I’m strongly disinclined to treat church attendance or nonattendance as a religious test litmus test for holding office.
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[masterblaster72 0]

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To use someone else's advice on here...you should do more research.
Palin smear

What a letdown. I was hoping for some snopes type of article debunking the video, proving that it wasn't actually Palin saying those things but some impersonator.

This is unsettling:

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get a $30B pipeline...that will create a lot of jobs for Alaskans...and pray about that also! I-I think god's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built...so pray for that

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[quade 4]

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To use someone else's advice on here...you should do more research.
Palin smear

What a letdown. I was hoping for some snopes type of article debunking the video, proving that it wasn't actually Palin saying those things but some impersonator.

This is unsettling:

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get a $30B pipeline...that will create a lot of jobs for Alaskans...and pray about that also! I-I think god's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built...so pray for that

Yeah, that was the first truly bizarre line I heard and why I started this thread to begin with.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[TheAnvil 0]

No you don't get it. You're deliberately ignoring the difference for reasons of your own - an avoidance mechanism one might say - and not facing the fact that 'God damn America' is not the only despicable thing Rev. Wright put out from his pulpit.

Ignore facts as often as you like - facts they do remain.

How about a link of sorts to all of this information you quote?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 3,006]

>No you don't get it.

Oh, I (and most of America) has gotten it. What preachers say on the pulpit doesn't imply that the congregation holds similar values, no matter what the GOPers say. It is amusing, though, to watch them twist and squirm when their attempt to tar a candidate because of what someone else said comes back to bite them in the ass.

>and not facing the fact that 'God damn America' is not the only despicable
>thing Rev. Wright put out from his pulpit.

Nor is declaring that Jews deserve to die the only despicable thing that came from Palin's church pulpit.

But again, most reasonable people have come to the understanding that that doesn't mean that Palin (or Obama) have anything to do with what gets said behind that pulpit. People are responsible for their own words, and not the words of the guy in the front of the church.

>facts they do remain.

Indeed they do.

[TheAnvil 0]

The guest speaker point again eludes you.

People are indeed responsible for their own words and not those of others. They are also responsible for their actions - such as tolerating repeatedly racist and despicable remarks from regular speakers for organizations to which they belong (notice I said regular and not guest speaker; quite salient) and their continued association with such organizations.

Minor point, Bill, and it's already moot as the PR arm of the Obama campaign - OOPS! I meant the mainstream media; so easy to interchange the two given their identical goals - has seen to it that few are paying attention.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[jclalor 12]

First time I have heard this video and this shit scares the crap out of me. When one thinks they know and can do gods will, outside of helping the poor and sick, is insanity.
Boy if Jesus was to come back today the last thing I would think he would interested in would be pipelines, wars, and the winner of high school football games in Texas.
Seeings how for the last 2000 years, Christian fanatics have all thought the world would end in their life time (After all this is what John did say in revelations) The last thing this world needs is some one who might like to speed up the process with nuclear weapons.
Religious zealots have no place in government.

[shropshire 0]

You hit the nail right on the head!!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[normiss 806]

It's a good thing we've never had a sitting President regularly consult with religious whackos then.

[masterrig 1]

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W.T.F are you lot letting yourself in for?

OK, here's the deal: We will trade you McCain, Palin, Biden, and Obama for any 4 of your politicians.

Oh, hell, tell you what; We'll give you the whole lot in exchange for Eddie Izzard.

I would vote for Eddie Izzard.. or hell why not Russel Brand? At least we'd have some intersting hairdo's in the White House.

This election is really depressing. I'm more excited about the USPA election this year.

How 'bout Kinky Freidman?


Chuck

[Remster 30]

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It's a good thing we've never had a sitting President regularly consult with religious whackos then.

Or mediums....

Remster

[mirage62 0]

This thread as normal here has jumped ALL over the place BUT after listening to the video. She basically said “Pray about the pipeline” (getting done and other things) from most the post here the problem seems to be that she suggested prayer – ABOUT anything. Here at dropzone.com we have a very vocal group of moderators who seem to have an aversion to religion (which is fine) but no matter how hard the screaming is here a lot of Americans are very comfortable with the idea of “we need to pray about this”.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[normiss 806]

Agreed,
apparently it's acceptable behavior to pray before sporting events, military activities (of ALL sorts) and when we open official events and meetings...but we don't accept someone in the top 2 seats who does...

[Gato 0]

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This thread as normal here has jumped ALL over the place BUT after listening to the video. She basically said “Pray about the pipeline” (getting done and other things) from most the post here the problem seems to be that she suggested prayer – ABOUT anything. Here at dropzone.com we have a very vocal group of moderators who seem to have an aversion to religion (which is fine) but no matter how hard the screaming is here a lot of Americans are very comfortable with the idea of “we need to pray about this”.

I agree that the thread has been all over the place, but that's NOT all she basically said.

(On our military men & women) "..that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task....that is from God. That's what we have to pray for, that there is a plan, and that it's God's plan."

I don't have a problem with people praying (or meditating) - what I have a problem with is someone in power claiming to be privy to "God's plan," and asking for support of that position.

I talk to God all the time - he's never once mentioned that I should support his plan that is being carried out in Iraq.

T.I.N.S.

[normiss 806]

don't both sides of an armed conflict typically think they're doing God's work?

[Gato 0]

Unfortunately, yes, that is true.

But it's usually the ones who are bat shit crazy.

T.I.N.S.

[JackC 0]

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Apparently it's acceptable behavior to pray before sporting events, military activities (of ALL sorts) and when we open official events and meetings...but we don't accept someone in the top 2 seats who does...

An atheist wouldn't get past point #1 if he/she stood for president and you know it.

[quade 4]

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Agreed,
apparently it's acceptable behavior to pray before sporting events, military activities (of ALL sorts) and when we open official events and meetings...but we don't accept someone in the top 2 seats who does...

There is a fundamental difference between praying for the safety of the players at a football game or NASCAR race and . . . having government leaders say they are carrying out God's will in killing people.

Or is that not obvious?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shropshire 0]

Fundamental ... there's a word that shouldn't be used to describe policticans

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[normiss 806]

We have always prayed over military actions of ALL types. We even employ pastors, ministers, what ever you want to call them in the military that regularly carry out out this very function.
We as a nation have long prayed over the killing of the enemy in armed conflicts as well.
The enemy does the same thing.

Or is that not obvious?

[quade 4]

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We have always prayed over military actions of ALL types. We even employ pastors, ministers, what ever you want to call them in the military that regularly carry out out this very function.
We as a nation have long prayed over the killing of the enemy in armed conflicts as well.
The enemy does the same thing.

Or is that not obvious?

You either continue to miss the point or you're doing it intentionally in an effort to distract from the main issue.

Either way it looks a bit silly.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[normiss 806]

We have differing views on silly as well then.

I parishioner speaking to her church and advising prayer. Wow...that's wrong right there.

Apparently you haven't been to church much.
They're always asking you to pray.

So I think you continue to miss the point.
And THAT looks a bit silly to me.

[quade 4]

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We have differing views on silly as well then.

I parishioner speaking to her church and advising prayer. Wow...that's wrong right there.

Apparently you haven't been to church much.
They're always asking you to pray.

So I think you continue to miss the point.
And THAT looks a bit silly to me.

AGAIN, you've missed the point of the entire thread or are intentionally being obtuse.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[normiss 806]

AGAIN, I don't think you listened to the video then.
and AGAIN people ask for prayer in church...I don't see the issue with what she did nor the fact that she will pray when she's in office.
Holding fault on someone because they have religious beliefs doesn't make sense to me.
Nor does it mean I fully support their beliefs.
Simply because you desire to divagate the discussion does not make me obtuse. I would also take calling someone obtuse to be a PA, or can I simply call someone stupid?

[quade 4]

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Simply because you desire to divagate the discussion does not make me obtuse.

How is it even possible for -me- to divert the discussion I, myself, started as long as I stay on the exact topic I made in the first place? Yes, YOU are the one being obtuse. It seems as if your ONLY goal here is to attempt to piss me off by playing "innocent" and intentionally "missing the point."

For instance, "Holding fault on someone because they have religious beliefs doesn't make sense to me."

I've never said I am holding anything against her simply for having religious beliefs.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver