The Great Depression

[alw 0]

In researching present financial data in the wake of Lehman's bankruptcy I kept running up against data that did not support what I was hearing from the Obama campaign. Listening to the junior first term senator from Illinois one could be lead to believe that the end is nigh. Words like "Crisis" and "Meltdown" get tossed around and now the phrase "since the great depression" are working their way into the mix.

Here are some facts, and before you disagree - do your homework.

Foreclosure rates were setting records for the day -- in 1999, at the peak of the Clinton-era prosperity that Obama celebrated in his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention. (Source: Mortgage Bankers Association). According to the MBA, 6.4 percent of mortgages are delinquent to some extent, and 2.75 percent are in foreclosure. During the Great Depression, according to Wheelock's research, more than 50 percent of home loans were in default.

Obama is wrong on his campaign Web site that "the personal savings rate is now the lowest it's been since the Great Depression." The latest rate, for the second quarter of 2008, is 2.6 percent -- higher than the 1.9 percent rate that prevailed in the last quarter of Bill Clinton's presidency.

According to the FDIC, there have been a total of 13 bank failures in 2007 and so far into 2008. There were 15 in 1999-2000, the climax of the Obama-celebrated era of Clintonian prosperity. And in recession-free 1988-89, there were 1,004 failures. Since the Great Depression, the average number of bank failures each year has been 94.

There have been 11 recessions since the Great Depression. And we're nowhere close to being in the 12th one now.

"Worst since the great depression", come on Mr. Obama. You can't just make this stuff up. You can't recreate the economy to suit your own political spin.

The only depression in America today is that being injected into the morale of the nation by the Obama campaign.

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[pirana 0]

It's tough to calm people down when the media is doing so much that whips people into a frenzy. I don't think the media has that as a goal (which is to sell air time, newspapers and internet hits), but they are so intent on sensationalizing everything that comes their way that calmly delivered honest information just doesn't cut through the noise.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[alw 0]

Quote

It's tough to calm people down when the media is doing so much that whips people into a frenzy. I don't think the media has that as a goal (which is to sell air time, newspapers and internet hits), but they are so intent on sensationalizing everything that comes their way that calmly delivered honest information just doesn't cut through the noise.

FAB

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[kallend 2,027]

A bit misleading of you to count a neighborhood S&L failure as being the same as the failure of a major investment bank like B-S, Lehman Bros or ML, or players like Fannie and Freddie.

I expect that's what you wanted, though.

Reaganomics --> S&L crisis
Bushonomics --> Banking crisis

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[alw 0]

Quote

A bit misleading of you to count a neighborhood S&L failure as being the same as the failure of a major investment bank like B-S, Lehman Bros or ML, or players like Fannie and Freddie.

I expect that's what you wanted, though.

Reaganomics --> S&L crisis
Bushonomics --> Banking crisis

Now didn't I ask you to do your homework first? BS and Lehman are investment banks.

And

If you would check the legislation that led to the S&L and Banking (read Mortgage) crisis you most likely won't want to list who sponsored it.

Or as David Axelrod says, "nana nana nana. I can say anything I want cause Americans are too stupid to check the facts."

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

A bit misleading of you to count a neighborhood S&L failure as being the same as the failure of a major investment bank like B-S, Lehman Bros or ML, or players like Fannie and Freddie.

I expect that's what you wanted, though.

Reaganomics --> S&L crisis
Bushonomics --> Banking crisis

Now didn't I ask you to do your homework first? BS and Lehman are investment banks.

Having trouble reading today?

Quote

And

If you would check the legislation that led to the S&L and Banking (read Mortgage) crisis you most likely won't want to list who sponsored it.

Or as David Axelrod says, "nana nana nana. I can say anything I want cause Americans are too stupid to check the facts."

So we only get to count what YOU want to count, and exlude investment banks from consideration? Why would that be?

I see AIG is is big trouble too. Another victim of Bushonomics.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

If you would check the legislation that led to the S&L and Banking (read Mortgage) crisis you most likely won't want to list who sponsored it.

The Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982 (Pub.L. 97-320, H.R. 6267, enacted 1982-10-15) is an Act of Congress that deregulated the Savings and Loan industry and was signed ito law by President REAGAN.

The bill, whose full title was "An Act to revitalize the housing industry by strengthening the financial stability of home mortgage lending institutions and ensuring the availability of home mortgage loans," was a Reagan Administration initiative*



* Reagan, Ronald. "Remarks on Signing the Garn-St Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982" (1982-10-15).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[alw 0]

And yyou haven't checked the NAR to see how many homes it has actually put in the hands of people that were not able to afford them prior? Looked at the percentage of those that failed to retain those homes? And recognized that that legislation was not the contributing factor of the mortgage institution problem that is at the root of the current situation?

If people would quit ending their investigation at left wing blogs or liberal press articles and anctually do some research they wouldn't be Democrats.

You can't make a case with a zinger.

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

And yyou haven't checked the NAR to see how many homes it has actually put in the hands of people that were not able to afford them prior? Looked at the percentage of those that failed to retain those homes? And recognized that that legislation was not the contributing factor of the mortgage institution problem that is at the root of the current situation?

If people would quit ending their investigation at left wing blogs or liberal press articles and anctually do some research they wouldn't be Democrats.

.

Nice backpedal on the REAGAN backed legislation.

Like Alice, you believe 6 impossible things before breakfast.


The roots of the problem are GREED and DEBT.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[alw 0]

Another zinger, albeit without teeth.

Sorry gotta go to work. Just in case Obama wins I've got to make sure that I can make enough to pay for some liberals brie and chablis and someone elses mortgage.

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Just in case Obama wins I've got to make sure that I can make enough to pay for some liberals brie and chablis and someone elses mortgage.

Hey, that's mighty white of you.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Another zinger, albeit without teeth.

Sorry gotta go to work. Just in case Obama wins I've got to make sure that I can make enough to pay for some liberals brie and chablis and someone elses mortgage.

That's funny right there! ...and I'm with you. Unfortunately, we're on the hilt for about $200B right now...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

If people would quit ending their investigation at left wing blogs or liberal press articles and anctually do some research they wouldn't be Democrats.

Interesting assertion. I abandoned Libertarian ideology in favor of more liberal views precisely because of studying maths, economics, and finance.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[quade 4]

Yeah, I guess Greenspan doesn't know what he's talking about either.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080914181841.fsmkqu8s&show_article=1

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Quote

If you would check the legislation that led to the S&L and Banking (read Mortgage) crisis you most likely won't want to list who sponsored it.

The Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982 (Pub.L. 97-320, H.R. 6267, enacted 1982-10-15) is an Act of Congress that deregulated the Savings and Loan industry and was signed ito law by President REAGAN.

The bill, whose full title was "An Act to revitalize the housing industry by strengthening the financial stability of home mortgage lending institutions and ensuring the availability of home mortgage loans," was a Reagan Administration initiative*



* Reagan, Ronald. "Remarks on Signing the Garn-St Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982" (1982-10-15).

The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (aka Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999) was designed to "modernize" financial services via deregulation. The regulations that were eliminated were those that prevented the mergers of banks, stock brokerage companies and insurance companies.

In 1933, the Glass-Steagall Act prevented banks from affiliating with securities companies. In 1956, the Bank Holding Company Act prevented banks from controlling non-banking entities. In 1982, the BHA was amended, and this prevented banks from doing insurance business.

The GLBA was passed by Congress and signed by President Clinton in 1999, which basically repealed everythign but the BHA of 1956. Since that time, banks engaged in a plethora of matters, such as insurance, etc. These banks then got a hold of a bunch of securities and these failed.


Note the similarities between the GLBA and the Garn Act. They both deregulated. They were both passed with wide bipartisan support (in the House, at least). They were both passed when Congress was controlled by a party adverse to the POTUS.

Where do the similarities end? Reagan gets blamed for the problems with an Act he signed. Clinton doesn't get blamed with the problems with an Act he signed.

Either both should be blamed or neither should be blamed.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[airdvr 210]

Where do the similarities end? Reagan gets blamed for the problems with an Act he signed. Clinton doesn't get blamed with the problems with an Act he signed.

Either both should be blamed or neither should be blamed.

Wow...this really works. Ummm...that would be #51

You must never be willing to take the consequences of your own actions or words or expect your confederates to do the same as long as you can unjustly lay the blame on someone else. But, of course, it is critical that you demand that people who don't agree with your ideas be held to strict adherence of taking the consequences of their actions.http://alohahawaii.home.att.net/leftwing.html

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[akarunway 1]

Quote

In researching present financial data in the wake of Lehman's bankruptcy I kept running up against data that did not support what I was hearing from the Obama campaign. Listening to the junior first term senator from Illinois one could be lead to believe that the end is nigh. Words like "Crisis" and "Meltdown" get tossed around and now the phrase "since the great depression" are working their way into the mix.

Here are some facts, and before you disagree - do your homework.

Foreclosure rates were setting records for the day -- in 1999, at the peak of the Clinton-era prosperity that Obama celebrated in his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention. (Source: Mortgage Bankers Association). According to the MBA, 6.4 percent of mortgages are delinquent to some extent, and 2.75 percent are in foreclosure. During the Great Depression, according to Wheelock's research, more than 50 percent of home loans were in default.

Obama is wrong on his campaign Web site that "the personal savings rate is now the lowest it's been since the Great Depression." The latest rate, for the second quarter of 2008, is 2.6 percent -- higher than the 1.9 percent rate that prevailed in the last quarter of Bill Clinton's presidency.

According to the FDIC, there have been a total of 13 bank failures in 2007 and so far into 2008. There were 15 in 1999-2000, the climax of the Obama-celebrated era of Clintonian prosperity. And in recession-free 1988-89, there were 1,004 failures. Since the Great Depression, the average number of bank failures each year has been 94.

There have been 11 recessions since the Great Depression. And we're nowhere close to being in the 12th one now.

"Worst since the great depression", come on Mr. Obama. You can't just make this stuff up. You can't recreate the economy to suit your own political spin.

The only depression in America today is that being injected into the morale of the nation by the Obama campaign.

I want some of whey you're smokin.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Where do the similarities end? Reagan gets blamed for the problems with an Act he signed. Clinton doesn't get blamed with the problems with an Act he signed.

Either both should be blamed or neither should be blamed.

Wow...this really works. Ummm...that would be #51

You must never be willing to take the consequences of your own actions or words or expect your confederates to do the same as long as you can unjustly lay the blame on someone else. But, of course, it is critical that you demand that people who don't agree with your ideas be held to strict adherence of taking the consequences of their actions.http://alohahawaii.home.att.net/leftwing.html

Let's see. In my 35 yrs. of working in the USA the only time I was out of work for an extended period of time was under RR and the Bushes. take that to thre bank. If your bank doesn't fail soon.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[alw 0]

Let's see. In my 35 yrs. of working in the USA the only time I was out of work for an extended period of time was under RR and the Bushes. take that to thre bank. If your bank doesn't fail soon.

Ever occur to you to blame yourself?

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[Misternatural 0]

>>Words like "Crisis" and "Meltdown" get tossed around and now the phrase "since the great depression" are working their way into the mix.

This is the essence of a political campaign, unfortunately hyperbole works in the effort to garner votes on a broad spectrum...The republicans do exactly the same thing. The difference here is that Obama does not yet have any power aside from his senatorial duties. The republicans have a presidential administration ie. Paulson et al who still can influence policy such as corporate and financial bailouts to slow down the bleeding or make it appear so. They each are going to do whatever it takes to win, sadly what the Bush administration is doing is definitely costing the taxpayer billions whereas Obama's mantra of rhetoric are just ideas on a drawing board which can still be tweaked before it is actually implemented.


Granted there is some decoupling between government and economic downturns but one thing that cannot be denied.....this all happened on the presidents watch and that may be a tough pill to eat- but you've gotta eat it.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Ever occur to you to blame yourself?

*whispering*
Psst...liberals don't do that...*whispering*

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[grimmie 186]

The blame for these financial meltdowns goes to the CEO's. What the hell are they teaching these MBA's? By trying to appease Wall Street and the shareholders, many of these companies have rolled the dice trying to make the big score. When a company makes a play, they better have the capital behind them. Government intervention and oversight can only prevent so many things.
Enron, huge scam. GM, poor planning, investment banks, bad investing.
All of the non stated income loans given out in the past 5-10 years are coming home to roost. Some of these mortgage people should be in jail.
I will agree though that our waste of funds in Iraq, billions of which don't come back in taxes to the US is hurting our economy.
As Russia, China, India and Mexico rise in wealth, we will continue to decline. IMHO we are slowly turning into a Third World nation.
Read your local newspaper. Is the town you live in financially sound? What about your County? State you live in have $$$'s in the bank?
We're broke as a nation. Quote all of the statistics you want. We can only borrow so much more money to run the US of A.
This reminds me of the Carter Era a bit. Fuel was rising, home loans were astronomical, we had a hostage crisis and overall feelings about America were not good until we beat the Russians in hockey!
Our economy recovers, it always does, but I think it is going to take much longer this time around.

[alw 0]

Quote

. . . Our economy recovers, it always does, but I think it is going to take much longer this time around.

You might be right. I'll make a prediction here and now that the economy starts improving right after the elections but won't really be felt for a year.

Throwing blame at a party or administration is simplistic and misses the mark. I'd rather see some positive action. I saw the response of the two campaigns today. One was blame and gloom and doom, the other was acknowledgement of mistakes and direction of action.

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[Misternatural 0]

>>Is the town you live in financially sound? What about your County? State you live in have $$$'s in the bank?

Oh I believe in Capitalism, I have skin in the game as an investor, and in the real estate market, it's no picnic out there and I soon am going to need a skin graft as a result, you can call me a bad investor if you like but I am in the majority so that argument does not hold- are we ALL collectively bad investors or did the playing field get washed out. As noted broker Jeff Mackey says...It''s just a tough tape out there!

>>This reminds me of the Carter Era a bit. Fuel was rising, home loans were astronomical, we had a hostage crisis and overall

And believe me we democrats have had to eat out share of the shit sandwich ever since...now its your turn and understandably you don't like it...too bad, man up- and chew!

>>feelings about America were not good until we beat the Russians in hockey!

Since You brought up sports, this reminds me of revered veteran Brett Favre in the third quarter yesterday getting beaten by a rookie QB, now I'm no New England fan but seeing Brett get dragged back to the goal line at the end of the fourth...after all that controversy-man, now THATS a shit sandwich.

We live in interesting times my friend.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Where do the similarities end? Reagan gets blamed for the problems with an Act he signed. Clinton doesn't get blamed with the problems with an Act he signed.

Either both should be blamed or neither should be blamed.

Wow...this really works. Ummm...that would be #51

You must never be willing to take the consequences of your own actions or words or expect your confederates to do the same as long as you can unjustly lay the blame on someone else. But, of course, it is critical that you demand that people who don't agree with your ideas be held to strict adherence of taking the consequences of their actions.http://alohahawaii.home.att.net/leftwing.html

Let's see. In my 35 yrs. of working in the USA the only time I was out of work for an extended period of time was under RR and the Bushes. take that to thre bank. If your bank doesn't fail soon.

Clinton inherited 7% unemp and left 4%, yet another mere coincidence. Meanwhile, the 3 stooges keep enjoying teh worst of most/all indicators and trying to say, 'hey, it's all of us."