Of the many contentious political discussions ...

[Darius11 12]

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Do you honestly believe half the country is completely out to lunch?

Lets see they voted for a recovering drug addict who has failed at every thing he has ever tried not once but twice TWICE. What the fuck! out to lunch is being nice i would say mentally handicapped

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Gawain 0]

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we simply don't know who she is.

Guess what, no one knows anything about Sen. Obama either. Two books, and 140 days in the Senate....no laws written, a congressional district that has more casualties than US forces in Iraq...yet everyone is overlooking this guy because he can read a teleprompter. The press, and people for that matter have not given Sen. Obama the vetting in two years that Gov. Palin has received in two weeks.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[quade 4]

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The press, and people for that matter have not given Sen. Obama the vetting in two years that Gov. Palin has received in two weeks.

Thanks for the laugh. I needed that. That's hilarious!

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,006]

>The press, and people for that matter have not given Sen. Obama the
>vetting in two years that Gov. Palin has received in two weeks.

Now THAT'S funny!

"We don't know who you are!"

"This is what I am."

"Oh, so you're good at making speeches! Well, empty speeches are one thing; no one knows where you stand!"

"Here's a book that explains my positions."

"We don't read books. See? NO ONE KNOWS WHERE YOU STAND! You might be a Muslim for all we know."

"I'm not a Muslim."

"Oh yeah? Well, here are a dozen articles from Newsmax showing you that you are, and an article showing that your birth certificate is forged! WE DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU STAND! How can we elect someone we know so little about?"

"Here's my birth certificate."

"Well, you never sent me the original. And here are 12 articles about how you went to a Madrassa! Take that! And still no one will publish a single article about you. WE DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU STAND!"

Repeat 47 times. After a while the bashers start to sound a bit . . . shrill.

[Gawain 0]

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The press, and people for that matter have not given Sen. Obama the vetting in two years that Gov. Palin has received in two weeks.

Thanks for the laugh. I needed that. That's hilarious!

Good grief...okay, I'll explain it this way:

The amount of scrutiny being applied now to Gov. Palin would crush Sen. Obama. She's been in elected office five years longer than the Senator, yet everyone is claiming "we don't know about her". It's not like she's not been in the public eye.

What I am seeing from this is that her selection caught the democrats completely off guard. We know all about Senators McCain and Biden. Politicos know about Gov. Palin.

What's been discovered about Sen. Obama, and gets no coverage is disturbing. The Chicago political machine, Ayers, contributions received from Freddie/Fannie (he's number two on the list for all time, he's only been in the US Senate for two years)...all the things that people wish we could change away from!

I'm not part of that whole smear crowd about his religion, skin color, et al...this person is a tax-spend socialist. He's been building his campaign on "anti-love" of country. He claims this country isn't as good as it once was. When was it better?

He got rich these past eight years. When else might he have accomplished this?

Why is someone's incessant whining about what's wrong so appealing to people? Are people feeling that sorry for themselves?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,027]

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So what your saying is that since there isn't enough known about her, she can't be "ready." If there isn't enough known about her, then how can you conclude she is NOT "ready?"

One example: we know the "troopergate" inquiry isn't complete and the Alaska GOP is now trying to block it (after being all for it BEFORE she was elevated).

What we conclude is that we don't know enough to trust her.

Absolutely understandable! Which is different from saying she's not ready. She may very well be. You just don't know.

Where you and the original poster differ is that you say, "Here's why I cannot vote for her. I do not know enough, and there is an open investigation." Versus superciliousness.

OH, I know WHY I wouldn't vote for her.
I wouldn't vote for anyone who would force a teenage rape victim to bear the child of the rapist. I don't believe rapists have the right to choose the mothers of their children.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,006]

>The amount of scrutiny being applied now to Gov. Palin would crush
>Sen. Obama.

That was every republican's fervent wish. But far more scrutiny WAS applied and he did not crush under the weight. People questioned his religion, his motives, his drug usage and his middle name. People claimed his birth certificate was a phony. People picked apart his resume. People got videotapes and went through every single thing his former pastor ever said. (You may remember that.) People picked through every single friend, partner, classmate and supporter he ever had.

Palin, by comparison, has had a free ride so far. I have yet to anyone accuse her of being a Muslim, a non-native-born citizen or an American-hating minority.

>What's been discovered about Sen. Obama, and gets no coverage is
>disturbing.

So he HAS been put under scrutiny? Make up your mind, man!

>I'm not part of that whole smear crowd about his religion, skin color,
>et al...this person is a tax-spend socialist.

And Palin is a spend-and-borrow religious fundamentalist. (Of course, I'm not sure why you continue to insist on comparing Palin to Obama. One is running for president; one isn't.)

>He claims this country isn't as good as it once was. When was it better?

When we were a symbol of freedom. When our biggest contributions to the world stage were not new wars and new definitions of torture.

>Why is someone's incessant whining about what's wrong so
>appealing to people?

It isn't. Which is why McCain has been losing ground. No one believes his whining about how it's all the OTHER republicans who have been doing all the bad stuff.

[Gawain 0]

Dude...I swear it's amazing the difference at how we look at stuff...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[warpedskydiver 0]

Obama, Rezko, Daley, Blowjobabitch.

Hmmm I wonder who thinks that corruption, influence peddling, payoffs in the millions, and lying under oath will bolster Obama's message.

I see a huge zero in the national news regarding the Chicago/Illinois Machine investigations,

The Rezko trial and his cooperation with Federal Investigators, will shed more light on how Obama got all that extra cash, as well as political support.


Yep never mind, nothing to see here, all politicians are corrupt, so why should we pay attention to Obama's personal involvement.



The double standard around here is nauseating.


http://wizbangblue.com/2008/03/06/sen-obama-time-to-call-us-about-rezko-312-3212417.php

[warpedskydiver 0]

Are Presidential candidates usually embroiled in fraudulent schemes involving investment firms, the Illinois Teachers’ Pension Fund and questionable campaign contributions?

[billvon 3,006]

>The double standard around here is nauseating.

Indeed it is. I understand the GOP is pushing the boundaries of the law to end the investigation into Troopergate - an investigation that started long before Palin was nominated. But they also want desperately for the Rezko trial to continue and implicate Obama. Hypocrites.

[TheAnvil 0]

Most interesting. I think those options would apply to anyone thinking Senator Obama is ready to step into the Presidency...his extensive Senate time (140 some days prior to commencing his campaign if memory serves) is quite impressive, eh? Especially alongside Senator McCain's paltry 22 years of time in the Senate. I wonder how many 'present' votes Senator McCain has registered during those 22 years...probably not too many.



Dave's right - I've had my eye on Governor Palin for several months. The January-February time-frame was the first time I can recall thinking about her for a VP candidate. Surprised anybody remembered my posts, but that's cool you did, amigo.

Speaking of dumber than dirt - the general level of knowledge of the electorate is a cause for major concern, I do believe. I think the average level of education in America is a national crisis and needs to be addressed - the NEA and its sycophants being the LAST people that need to be on the job.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[happythoughts 0]

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a) a political zealot who abandoned all sense of honesty and worth listening to for amusement value only

Public Notice - Hillary isn't running anymore (perhaps).

[mnealtx 0]

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Do you honestly believe half the country is completely out to lunch?

Lets see they voted for a recovering drug addict who has failed at every thing he has ever tried not once but twice TWICE. What the fuck! out to lunch is being nice i would say mentally handicapped

As opposed to the drug addict and serial sexual predator they voted for twice before that? What's that about mentally handicapped, again?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Lucky... 0]

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Both of which, BTW, also describe Palin, so there might be a connection there.

Of ALL the people that McCain could have picked, was ANYBODY on this Forum seriously backing PALIN as a VP candidate before it was announced?

No. Not a single person was saying, "Oh, you know who has a ton of experience and is the perfect counter to the Hillary thing; Palin." Not a single one of the people here that are backing her now.

Desperate times desperate measures. If McSame picked a predictable VP, he wouls have stayed predictably behind teh race and would have lost, as predicted. I don't blame him for picking someone as repulsive as her, he had to do something radical, but as most radical measures, his won't work in the longrun either. If he could have picked her in the last week before the election it would have been better for him. The best thing he could now do is shuttle her away somewhere and keep her from the media.

[Lucky... 0]

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So we see that the thought is just as rigid on one side as another.

But this is where subjective matters come into it. How is a person "ready" to step into the Presidency? That's a question that cannot really be answered.

It is not objective truth that Palin isn't ready for the job. (Actually - perhaps you should help with the experiment and vote for McCain). SHe's actually got some experienced that Obama and Biden do not - executive governmental experience. And it McCain lasts three years as President before he takes a dirt nap, that's three years of experience Palin would have as veep.

I think the issue is so much looking at Palin as "she's not ready now." And also, inherently, "Palin will not be ready ever."

Do you think that with a couple of years in the White House under her belt she'd be ready? What about 6 years? Or do you think she is will simply never be "ready" for the job because you have different beliefs that you do?

I think she's not ready due to her position on issues being so far away from that of most Americans. So perhaps the option would be that she would never be ready.

[Lucky... 0]

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Lots of issues worth discussing but anyone on the pro-Palin side of this one is:

a) a political zealot who abandoned all sense of honesty and worth listening to for amusement value only

b) Dumber than dirt.

Anyone who likes Palin as VP is either a zealot or dumb? How do you come to that conclusion? Anything objective, as lawrocket said?

The gallup polls have been back and forth across even for weeks. Do you honestly believe half the country is completely out to lunch?

What makes her less ready than Obama?

I think the rediness isssue is not worthwhile on either candidate. I think the important issue is that of whether that candidate's positions reflect that of most Americans. Obama's do, Palin's do not.

[Lucky... 0]

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Well, you can think what you want. She doesn't have my vote. But it is not because I dont' think that she or McCain are "ready" for the Whitehouse - nobody was ever more "ready" to be a VP than Cheney.

Tom Brady wasn't ready to win a championship when Bledsoe was hurt.
Now, Brady's replacement started his first football game since he was a senior in high school. And he's done pretty well thus far. For someone who isn't "ready" hes done pretty well.

Clinton wasn't ready. He did a fne job as POTUS. Bush, Sr. was "ready" and he lasted one term.

"Ready" is an individual definition. You think she is not "ready." That's your viewpoint. I respect your views, though I cannot say that I have a great deal of respect for the way you put them out there.

So, as opposed to just saying Palin isn't "ready" how about putting some substance to it. Explain your personal subjective viewpoints of what "ready" is. And then explain who is "ready" for the position.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Clinton wasn't ready. He did a fne job as POTUS. Bush, Sr. was "ready" and he lasted one term.


I don't see how Clinton wasn't ready. He was a Governor for quite a while wasn't he? Bush 1 was a good president, would have been a great pres had he not coattailed fascist Ronnie, spent his entire term cleaning up for Reagan's mess and had to raise taxes to bailout, his fatal blow.


As for ready, I agree that that term is usuallu used as areplacement for other substance. But let's be real, the Dems got sucked into that term via the R's claiming Obama wasn't ready, something they need to stop using. The Dems should focus more on Palin being so far out there that she isn't like most American humans, that would be a fair assessment independant of Obama.

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And what proof has Obama ever given that he won't be a total disaster?


Since proof is actually a utupian word, we'll use, "evidence." Obama has evidenced he has had success with all of his ventures with inter-city areas and housing and as a senator. He didn't vote for the war and that has become a successful position.

OTOH, GWB evidenced he was a disaster from years ago and that didn't stop you from voting for him. He's upheld that value as a disater, so what does didater or not have to do with anything as far as you're concerned?

[Lucky... 0]

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we simply don't know who she is.

Guess what, no one knows anything about Sen. Obama either. Two books, and 140 days in the Senate....no laws written, a congressional district that has more casualties than US forces in Iraq...yet everyone is overlooking this guy because he can read a teleprompter. The press, and people for that matter have not given Sen. Obama the vetting in two years that Gov. Palin has received in two weeks.

Here's a list of his accomplishments:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

Compare that to hers......why do we compare a pres candidate to that of a vp candidate?

[Lucky... 0]

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The press, and people for that matter have not given Sen. Obama the vetting in two years that Gov. Palin has received in two weeks.

Thanks for the laugh. I needed that. That's hilarious!

Good grief...okay, I'll explain it this way:

The amount of scrutiny being applied now to Gov. Palin would crush Sen. Obama. She's been in elected office five years longer than the Senator, yet everyone is claiming "we don't know about her". It's not like she's not been in the public eye.

What I am seeing from this is that her selection caught the democrats completely off guard. We know all about Senators McCain and Biden. Politicos know about Gov. Palin.

What's been discovered about Sen. Obama, and gets no coverage is disturbing. The Chicago political machine, Ayers, contributions received from Freddie/Fannie (he's number two on the list for all time, he's only been in the US Senate for two years)...all the things that people wish we could change away from!

I'm not part of that whole smear crowd about his religion, skin color, et al...this person is a tax-spend socialist. He's been building his campaign on "anti-love" of country. He claims this country isn't as good as it once was. When was it better?

He got rich these past eight years. When else might he have accomplished this?

Why is someone's incessant whining about what's wrong so appealing to people? Are people feeling that sorry for themselves?

Again, why compare a pres candidate to a VP candidate is ridiculous, unless you're admitting that McSame is on death's edge.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(he's number two on the list for all time, he's only been in the US Senate for two years)...


What? He was elected in the 2004 cycle so he will have 4 years as a US senator this January.

Also, He has been an Illinois senator since 97, so your no experience argument is weak....wait, void.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>He's been building his campaign on "anti-love" of country. He claims this country isn't as good as it once was. When was it better?


Point out statements in context of anti-US.

This country isn't as good as it once was, can you argue that? It was better:

- The 2nd term of the Clinton admin
- During the Eisenhower years
- WWII and subsequent

>>>>>>>>>>>>>He got rich these past eight years. When else might he have accomplished this?

See the 3 above. Also, the dollar has lost HUGE ground since King George, so we've all become poorer.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Why is someone's incessant whining about what's wrong so appealing to people? Are people feeling that sorry for themselves?


When 1 of 6 people have no health coverage and at least 1/2 of all others have greatly deficient health coverage that is worthy of whining. The majority of the people in the US aren't happy with things, so if you're not, "whining" then you're the exception.


BTW, do you have a clue as to what you speak? You thought Obama was elected last mid-term rather than last general presidential election. As well, you were unaware that Obama had been in the State senate since 97. Perhaps do some reading on little facts and events and turn off FOX and Newsmax a little morre.

[Lucky... 0]

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Dude...I swear it's amazing the difference at how we look at stuff...

Yes, you:

- Think Obama has been a US Senator for 2 years

Whereas I:

- Know he has been in the US senate for 4 years as of this January.

You think:

- Obama has no other experience than the US Senate

I:

- Know he was a state senator since 97.


It is amazing..... I actually research stuff and you watch cartoons for your information.

[Darius11 12]

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The press, and people for that matter have not given Sen. Obama the vetting in two years that Gov. Palin has received in two weeks.

Really what would you think the media would have done if BO 17 year old came home pregnant?

I think they have been going easy on her, there is a lot of stuff they could be pounding her on and their not, which I find disappointing.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Don’t forget the terrorist fist bump.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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As opposed to the drug addict and serial sexual predator they voted for twice before that? What's that about mentally handicapped, again?

I don’t think sexual predator is a fair description but whatever makes you feel better.


I know Mike that it pains you to admit this but the facts don’t lie.

Clintons blow job or him lying about didn’t effect the economy and the country the way the republican administration has.

We had a RECORD surplus, an amazing economy, and all over America people were living better then they had before,We were also respected more in the world, We had not lost personal freedoms, We still believed that Everyone is entitled to due process. I can go on and on. All this is known as an IMPROVEMENT.

Now we have a deficit, have lost all credibility in the world, It seems every day we are finding out that we were lied to, Started a false war (at least the reasons that were original given were not true), Our troops are getting killed every day, We have the blood of hundreds of thousands of inocent Iraqis on our hands, loss of personal freedoms,and the economy is in the toilet. I can go on and on again.

That’s the inarguable facts.

I wish Bush would have gotten a blowjob and lied about it but he lied to start a war. I can not comprehend how anyone with a sound mind can think human lives are worth less then a blowjob.



Plus Clinton is not running right now and he has not been in office for the past 8 years. So keep on saying he got laid how dare he got laid or blown. Come on man if you can’t do any better then that you should at least take a look at your reasoning.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain