JohnRich 4 #1 September 22, 2008 News:How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis ...in 2005 Alan Greenspan told Congress how urgent it was for it to act in the clearest possible terms: If Fannie and Freddie ``continue to grow, continue to have the low capital that they have, continue to engage in the dynamic hedging of their portfolios, which they need to do for interest rate risk aversion, they potentially create ever-growing potential systemic risk down the road,'' he said. ``We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk.'' What happened next was extraordinary. For the first time in history, a serious Fannie and Freddie reform bill was passed by the Senate Banking Committee. The bill gave a regulator power to crack down, and would have required the companies to eliminate their investments in risky assets. If that bill had become law, then the world today would be different. But the bill didn't become law, for a simple reason: Democrats opposed it on a party-line vote in the committee, signaling that this would be a partisan issue. Republicans, tied in knots by the tight Democratic opposition, couldn't even get the Senate to vote on the matter... Source: Bloomberg News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #2 September 22, 2008 >Democrats Created the Financial Crises It's the GOP's favorite game - blame the Democrats for everything! Unfortunately, after the GOP's support for deregulation (and Phil Gramm's spearheading of one of the bills that removed much of the regulation from the banking industry) no one is going to buy it. BTW that comment about Greenspan? He was one of the people who supported it at the time as well: "More recently, instruments that are more complex and less transparent--such as credit default swaps, collateralized debt obligations, and credit-linked notes--have been developed and their use has grown very rapidly in recent years. The result? Improved credit-risk management together with more and better risk-management tools appear to have significantly reduced loan concentrations in telecommunications and, indeed, other areas and the associated stress on banks and other financial institutions." (Credit default swaps are one of the primary reasons that we are about to spend almost a trillion dollars bailing out the banks.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #3 September 22, 2008 QuoteNews:How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis ...in 2005 Alan Greenspan told Congress how urgent it was for it to act in the clearest possible terms: If Fannie and Freddie ``continue to grow, continue to have the low capital that they have, continue to engage in the dynamic hedging of their portfolios, which they need to do for interest rate risk aversion, they potentially create ever-growing potential systemic risk down the road,'' he said. ``We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk.'' What happened next was extraordinary. For the first time in history, a serious Fannie and Freddie reform bill was passed by the Senate Banking Committee. The bill gave a regulator power to crack down, and would have required the companies to eliminate their investments in risky assets. If that bill had become law, then the world today would be different. But the bill didn't become law, for a simple reason: Democrats opposed it on a party-line vote in the committee, signaling that this would be a partisan issue. Republicans, tied in knots by the tight Democratic opposition, couldn't even get the Senate to vote on the matter... Source: Bloomberg News Is there a source that shows that every single person that granted a loan they shouldn't have and also that every person that accepted a loan that they wouldn't be able to repay is a democrat? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #4 September 22, 2008 Quote>Democrats Created the Financial Crises It's the GOP's favorite game - blame the Democrats for everything! Unfortunately, after the GOP's support for deregulation (and Phil Gramm's spearheading of one of the bills that removed much of the regulation from the banking industry) no one is going to buy it. BTW that comment about Greenspan? He was one of the people who supported it at the time as well: "More recently, instruments that are more complex and less transparent--such as credit default swaps, collateralized debt obligations, and credit-linked notes--have been developed and their use has grown very rapidly in recent years. The result? Improved credit-risk management together with more and better risk-management tools appear to have significantly reduced loan concentrations in telecommunications and, indeed, other areas and the associated stress on banks and other financial institutions." (Credit default swaps are one of the primary reasons that we are about to spend almost a trillion dollars bailing out the banks.) I would not call Bloomberg News right wing. I have seen reports on CNN, ABC and FOX and all are speaking exactly what Bloomberg is saying. Blaming deregulation is a bait and switch billvon. The Carter Admin pushed for a law that forced business to loan money to those who could not pay them back. Clinton renewed and expanded and pushed the same in 1995. Now the chickens are coming home. Blame belongs where it belongs and the Dems should not carry it all, but them, along with goups like ACORN and complicit Repulicans, that pushed these kinds of laws that are causing this, do"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #5 September 22, 2008 QuoteQuote>Democrats Created the Financial Crises BY KEVIN HASSETT (a fact conveniently omitted by John Rich) I would not call Bloomberg News right wing. Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. Yep, truly an unbiased author.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #6 September 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote>Democrats Created the Financial Crises BY KEVIN HASSETT (a fact conveniently omitted by John Rich I would not call Bloomberg News right wing. Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. Yep, truly an unbiased author. Doesnt change where the stink is coming from oh twisting one........"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #7 September 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Democrats Created the Financial Crises BY KEVIN HASSETT (a fact conveniently omitted by John Rich I would not call Bloomberg News right wing. Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. Yep, truly an unbiased author. Doesnt change where the stink is coming from oh twisting one........ Apparently you forgot: in 2005 the GOP controlled BOTH parts of Congress AND the White House. If they couldn't get the bill passed, maybe there was something wrong with the bill, or with the GOP.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #8 September 22, 2008 QuoteBlaming deregulation is a bait and switch . . . No. Deregulation is 100% the root cause of this entire fiasco. IF the same regulations had remained in place, this would not have been possible. We've already discussed how this came to pass; bankers lobbying the GOP, a Republican controlled Congress passing veto proof legislation. It is dishonest to think otherwise. Here are Paulson and Bloomberg being interviewed by Brokaw on the subject; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26819679#26819679quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #9 September 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Democrats Created the Financial Crises BY KEVIN HASSETT (a fact conveniently omitted by John Rich I would not call Bloomberg News right wing. Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. Yep, truly an unbiased author. Doesnt change where the stink is coming from oh twisting one........ Apparently you forgot: in 2005 the GOP controlled BOTH parts of Congress AND the White House. If they couldn't get the bill passed, maybe there was something wrong with the bill, or with the GOP. the simple fact that you do not care to see the cause is not surprising. Lending money to those who can not/could not pay it back has caused this. Started with Carter, got increased with Clinton and changes got stopped and stymied by the Dems in congress in the last few years. Nothing you say or shot down or throw up in the air will cange that. Feel good liberal lend money so all can feel the dream politics caused this.Period"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #10 September 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteBlaming deregulation is a bait and switch . . . No. Deregulation is 100% the root cause of this entire fiasco. IF the same regulations had remained in place, this would not have been possible. We've already discussed how this came to pass; bankers lobbying the GOP, a Republican controlled Congress passing veto proof legislation. It is dishonest to think otherwise. Here are Paulson and Bloomberg being interviewed by Brokaw on the subject; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26819679#26819679 Ok, if you want to call allowing those who could only get subprime loans on their own, get better rates and paper because of laws OVERRIDING lending instutuion rules, then you are right. Look up redlining and clinton in google. let us know what you think. Be careful though, the spin on redlining is beginning, you have to sort it out. But if you are saying market degregulation is the cause, you are looking with your eyes wide shut."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #11 September 22, 2008 >I would not call Bloomberg News right wing. OK, so don't. I didn't. >Blaming deregulation is a bait and switch billvon. It is blaming the underlying cause. Lack of clear reporting, due to the lack of regulation in the energy markets, is what led to the Enron collapse. Lack of transparency and lack of safeguards is what led to this collapse. Blaming capitalists for trying to make money is fun and gets you great sound bites, but it's what they do. It's what we all do. The next time you choose a better performing mutual fund over a more poorly performing one, you are giving jobs to people who speculated successfully - and thus speculators win out over the more conservative fund managers. So what's the solution? The easy one is better regulation of markets. In the mortgage arena, it will likely involve more mandatory qualifications for mortgages, basically measures to better ensure that mortgages can be paid off. In the banking area, it will likely involve more regulation of instruments like credit default swaps to make them less opaque - so such problems won't blindside us. Of course, a lot of companies will hate this, because it means less money for them in the short term (even if it avoids collapse in the long term.) Look for them to start pushing for any fix to be watered down, using phrases like "red tape is not the solution" "we need a vigorous and flexible economic system" "we need to revitalize the banking system to get the economy back on track" etc. We must be on our guard to prevent this, and get good regulation in place to help prevent this sort of thing in the future. (Note that that is not a republican or democratic solution; it will take both sides to make it happen.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #12 September 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Democrats Created the Financial Crises BY KEVIN HASSETT (a fact conveniently omitted by John Rich I would not call Bloomberg News right wing. Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. Yep, truly an unbiased author. Doesnt change where the stink is coming from oh twisting one........ Apparently you forgot: in 2005 the GOP controlled BOTH parts of Congress AND the White House. If they couldn't get the bill passed, maybe there was something wrong with the bill, or with the GOP. the simple fact that you do not care to see the cause is not surprising. Lending money to those who can not/could not pay it back has caused this. Started with Carter, got increased with Clinton and changes got stopped and stymied by the Dems in congress in the last few years. Nothing you say or shot down or throw up in the air will cange that. Feel good liberal lend money so all can feel the dream politics caused this.Period “This legislation takes a small but important step toward eliminating the tremendous regulatory burden imposed on financial institutions… One principal reason banks are unable to make loans is the bewildering array of statutory and regulatory restrictions and paperwork requirements imposed by Congress and the regulatory agencies.", John McCain, Congressional Record, 11/19/1993 “I am convinced that the best thing government can often do to advance the fortunes of the private sector is to stay out of its way", John McCain, Congressional Record, 10/3/2000 "Let’s reduce regulation.” John McCain, CNN, “Ballot Bowl, 3/15/08 “We need to return to the Reagan years. We need to have fiscal conservatism. We need less government. We need less regulation. We need to end of spending spree which has eroded our base of Republican support.” John McCain, PBS, “Washington Week,” 1/25/08 “We’ve got to do the other things necessary to encourage business and give them lower taxes, less regulation, less government in their lives", John McCain, CNN Newsroom,” 2/14/08 “I am a deregulator. I believe in deregulation.” McCain, CNN, “In the Money,” 7/13/03 “I have a long voting record in support of deregulation.” McCain, St. Petersburg Times, 6/5/03 "I think that’s probably one of our first efforts - keep the regulation of the government as much as possible out of people’s lives.” McCain, PBS, “NewHour with Jim Lehrer,” 2/2/00]... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #13 September 22, 2008 Dang. With those quotes McCain may get my vote yet!!! Very few academics would support the idea of increasong regulations over teaching subjects and methodologies? We can point to the number of people who fail out of college or trends that suggest that certain colleged and universities are under-performing. Or look to new methofologies that have proven less successful or even disastrous. Let us not think differently. Let us not try new things. The results could be disastrous. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #14 September 22, 2008 QuoteDang. With those quotes McCain may get my vote yet!!! Very few academics would support the idea of increasong regulations over teaching subjects and methodologies? We can point to the number of people who fail out of college or trends that suggest that certain colleged and universities are under-performing. Or look to new methofologies that have proven less successful or even disastrous. Let us not think differently. Let us not try new things. The results could be disastrous. If the new idea in legal education was "no grades, no controls, do what you like and we'll give you a degree" do you think it would lead to problems down the road? Maybe we should give up regulating civil engineers too - I'm sure we could make more profits for construction companies if they used lower grade steel and concrete in our bridges, and high school dropouts in charge of the bridge designs.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #15 September 23, 2008 QuoteApparently you forgot: in 2005 the GOP controlled BOTH parts of Congress AND the White House. If they couldn't get the bill passed, maybe there was something wrong with the bill, or with the GOP. It died in committee - the Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee chaired by Chris Dodd (#1 recipient of Fannie/Freddie contributions over the last 20 years) and consisting of 11 Dems and 10 Reps. BTW - the bill was co-sponsored by Senator McCain. Now...you were saying?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #16 September 23, 2008 QuoteDang. With those quotes McCain may get my vote yet!!! Very few academics would support the idea of increasong regulations over teaching subjects and methodologies? We can point to the number of people who fail out of college or trends that suggest that certain colleged and universities are under-performing. Or look to new methofologies that have proven less successful or even disastrous. Let us not think differently. Let us not try new things. The results could be disastrous. Come on, have you ever voted for a Dem as pres? Let's be real here...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #17 September 23, 2008 No, I have not ever voted for a Dem as Pres. It turns out, nor have I voted for a Republican as POTUS. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #18 September 23, 2008 QuoteQuoteApparently you forgot: in 2005 the GOP controlled BOTH parts of Congress AND the White House. If they couldn't get the bill passed, maybe there was something wrong with the bill, or with the GOP. It died in committee - the Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee chaired by Chris Dodd (#1 recipient of Fannie/Freddie contributions over the last 20 years) and consisting of 11 Dems and 10 Reps. Incorrect Quote BTW - the bill was co-sponsored by Senator McCain. Now...you were saying? I say you should check your facts. Members of the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, 109th Congress Republicans: Richard Shelby (Ala.), Chairman Robert Bennett (Utah) Wayne Allard (Colo.) Mike Enzi (Wyo.) Chuck Hagel (Neb.) Rick Santorum (Pa.) Jim Bunning (Ky.) Mike Crapo (Idaho) John E. Sununu (N.H.) Elizabeth Dole (N.C.) Mel Martinez (Fla.) Democrats: Paul S. Sarbanes (Md.), Ranking Member Christopher Dodd (Conn.) Tim Johnson (S.D.) Jack Reed (R.I.) Chuck Schumer (N.Y.) Evan Bayh (Ind.) Thomas R. Carper (Del.) Debbie Stabenow (Mich.) Robert Menendez (N.J.)... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #19 September 23, 2008 >“I am a deregulator. I believe in deregulation.” McCain, CNN, “In the Money,” 7/13/03 My favorite McCain quote: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation." Vote McCain! He'll do for health care what he did for banking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #20 September 23, 2008 QuoteNo, I have not ever voted for a Dem as Pres. It turns out, nor have I voted for a Republican as POTUS. No way, you voted indep/Libertarian all the time? Either way, point stands, your vote wasn't near Obama. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #21 September 23, 2008 Quote>“I am a deregulator. I believe in deregulation.” McCain, CNN, “In the Money,” 7/13/03 My favorite McCain quote: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation." Vote McCain! He'll do for health care what he did for banking. Jessus can we be so dumb. When will we run out of venues/depts to privatize, fuck up and then socialize? Will we go full circle and use the same ones over again? - I'm the decider - I'm the deregulator ....... and they're not the same? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #22 September 23, 2008 My mistake - thank you for the correction. However, since it was such a HUGE problem - WHY didn't the Dems do anything about it once they got in charge?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #23 September 23, 2008 QuoteMy mistake - thank you for the correction. However, since it was such a HUGE problem - WHY didn't the Dems do anything about it once they got in charge? The "It's all YOUR fault for not stopping us" defense. See who sponsored HR1427 (110th Congress).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #24 October 2, 2008 S190 was RE-introduced in the 110th Congress as S.1100 Current status is 'read into committee' as of APRIL 2007. So - the NEW bill has sat in the Dem-controlled Congress and Dem-controlled Banking committee for a YEAR AND A HALF with NO ACTION. Great job, Senator Dodd!!! **Addendum - I"m not saying it's solely the fault of the Dems - but passage of the bill may have alleviated some of what we're going through now.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #25 October 2, 2008 I was going to post this link yesterday but didn't want to deal with the partisan denials coming from BillVon, Kallend and others so I held back. But I figure I will post it anyway for the few open minded individuals who could look at the facts and learn from them. Then of course I could just ignore the blatant partisan denials. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxgSubmiGt8If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
