The Republicans created the financial crisis

[kallend 2,106]

Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act 1999

Here's a list of the "Yea"s


Abraham (R-MI)
Allard (R-CO)
Ashcroft (R-MO)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (R-CO)
Chafee, J. (R-RI)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Coverdell (R-GA)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeWine (R-OH)
Domenici (R-NM)
Enzi (R-WY)
Frist (R-TN)
Gorton (R-WA)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grams (R-MN)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchinson (R-AR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Jeffords (R-VT)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Mack (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nickles (R-OK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Roth (R-DE)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA

Proof!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,073]

Neither party 'created' the crisis.

The most immediate cause is greed. Investors bought questionable mortgages and financial instruments because, up until recently, those instruments made them a lot of money. They got very byzantine, but as long as the money rolled in no one cared.

And since the Etrade crowd could buy into funds/companies that invested in such instruments, their greed fed into the problem as well.*

Contributing to the problem were the regulations that allowed such investment to take place with minimal transparency and oversight. The republicans certainly championed the cause of deregulation, but both parties supported reductions in oversight at various times.

(* - saying "greed caused it" is literally correct but also not all that useful; that's how our economy works. It's like saying water caused the New Orleans floods. It's just what it does in large quantities, and no one should be surprised by that.)

[jumpwally 0]

I agree entirely,,Warren Buffet said in a interview last year before this whole thing blew up that " no way" would he invest in anything that was so confusing and bizzare. Fortune Magazine, IIRC.....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Para_Frog 1]

Nice try at complete illusion there Doc. You posted the original vote pre-conference and amendment.

The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act 1999 conference report (read: the final bill) passed with a vote of 90-8 in the Senate 362-57 in the House.

PA's snipped. Your one warning.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[alw 0]

hundreds of greedy mortgage lenders
thousands of greedy realestate agents
millions of house buyers that were either greedy or stupid

And who will have to pay for it?

The people that were responsible enough to avoid getting into the fix in the first place.

Maybe they should sell shares in the government and let the people that pay the taxes vote their shares. No tax - no shares - no vote.

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[Para_Frog 1]

The final vote record was a PA? Ok. Your house your rules I suppose.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[rushmc 23]

No, not greed but power. Power gained by giving a politcal class something to gain votes. Greed followed by likes of those who ran and robbed Fannie and Freddie.

So, I agree (kinda) that neither party created it, but one got more benifit from it.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

hundreds of greedy mortgage lenders
thousands of greedy realestate agents
millions of house buyers that were either greedy or stupid

And who will have to pay for it?

The people that were responsible enough to avoid getting into the fix in the first place.

Maybe they should sell shares in the government and let the people that pay the taxes vote their shares. No tax - no shares - no vote.

Exactly. This is a situation created by a law that was designed to give a party a leg up by helping a political class. And those of us who did it right are getting screwed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,073]

>The final vote record was a PA?

No. Calling Kallend names was a PA.

[FallingOsh 0]

Quote

hundreds of greedy mortgage lenders
thousands of greedy realestate agents
millions of house buyers that were either greedy or stupid

Just curious as to who you mean by house buyers. Those who bought many houses for investment or anyone who bought a house?

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[alw 0]

Quote

Quote

hundreds of greedy mortgage lenders
thousands of greedy realestate agents
millions of house buyers that were either greedy or stupid

Just curious as to who you mean by house buyers. Those who bought many houses for investment or anyone who bought a house?

I'd call the ones that bought one to flip or one knowing that it was too much for them and then took out a second or bought with a 0 down ARM greedy.

Those that bought many to flip really greedy.

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

hundreds of greedy mortgage lenders
thousands of greedy realestate agents
millions of house buyers that were either greedy or stupid

And who will have to pay for it?

The people that were responsible enough to avoid getting into the fix in the first place.

Maybe they should sell shares in the government and let the people that pay the taxes vote their shares. No tax - no shares - no vote.

You seem to have forgotten those who packaged flaky mortgages into securities, those agencies who gave those securities high ratings, and the "masters of the universe" who dreamed up these schemes and made huge bonuses.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act 1999

Here's a list of the "Yea"s


Abraham (R-MI)
Allard (R-CO)
Ashcroft (R-MO)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (R-CO)
Chafee, J. (R-RI)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Coverdell (R-GA)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeWine (R-OH)
Domenici (R-NM)
Enzi (R-WY)
Frist (R-TN)
Gorton (R-WA)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grams (R-MN)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchinson (R-AR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Jeffords (R-VT)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Mack (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nickles (R-OK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Roth (R-DE)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA

Proof!

Donno. I read this this morning. It's all the dems fault now. Or yesterday it was Greenspans fault. I'm so confused. They are ALL a bunch of lieing, greedy crooked moytherfuckers. We need to bite the bullet and clean house. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aSKSoiNbnQY0

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Maybe they should sell shares in the government and let the people that pay the taxes vote their shares. No tax - no shares - no vote.

It's always refreshing to see people so eager to discard the Constitution. Have you ever read the 24th Amendment?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[alw 0]

Quote

Quote

Maybe they should sell shares in the government and let the people that pay the taxes vote their shares. No tax - no shares - no vote.

It's always refreshing to see people so eager to discard the Constitution. Have you ever read the 24th Amendment?

Did you ever read the Declaration of Independence?

---------------------------------------------
Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[billvon 3,073]

>Did you ever read the Declaration of Independence?

I have. But we run our government according to our Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence.

[billvon 3,073]

> This is a situation created by a law that was designed to give a party a
> leg up by helping a political class.

Which law is that?

> And those of us who did it right are getting screwed.

How's that? I have a mortgage and a house; I'm fine. I know a few people who went the ARM-zero-down route and are now losing their homes. From here it looks like the people who were foolish are getting screwed.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

> This is a situation created by a law that was designed to give a party a
> leg up by helping a political class.

Which law is that?

> And those of us who did it right are getting screwed.

How's that? I have a mortgage and a house; I'm fine. I know a few people who went the ARM-zero-down route and are now losing their homes. From here it looks like the people who were foolish are getting screwed.

I am talking of those that needed no down payment, bought a house that cost more than they could afford BECAUSE the Dems , ACORN and (to start with Carter) pushed through banking rules and laws that forced banks to give loans to these people. Then Clinton pushed it even harder in 95 telling all banks that they need to comply with this or get fined.

So, if you are I (who provided down payments and got good rates because we had good credit ratings) defaulted on our loans, we would loose our homes.

The bums, supported by the gov (this voting class) who did not have good credit ratings and no down payments, and who also got good rates because Freddie and Fannie told them to move the loans to A paper and then purchased those very loans, will default and this bail out will allow them to remain in their homes.

So, you and I will fund , for our wondrous government, the start the greatest transfer of money from those of us who do work to those who don't in history.

In 1999 this disaster was predicted. The Bush Admin tried to change the rules starting in 2001. The Dems stopped and blocked all attempts at change. Why?

LOOK WHO GOT THE MOST MONEY FROM FREDDIE AND FANNIE. DODD AND OBAMA ARE TWO OF THE TOP THREE.

This mess has nothing to do with lack of regulation. It has everything to do with the regulations being pushed, who pushed them and why.

Any attempt at putting the blame on lack of regulation is a ploy to give the gov more power. And why do you suppose they want that? Maybe so the money train will not run out? Maybe?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,073]

I'll ignore your habitual attacks on Democrats and try to answer the rest:

>I am talking of those that needed no down payment, bought a house that cost
>more than they could . . . .

Yep, they were foolish. Many of them lost their houses. They were stupid, they paid the price. To use your phrasing, they are getting screwed. (By their own actions of course.)

>So, if you are I (who provided down payments and got good rates because we had
>good credit ratings) defaulted on our loans, we would loose our homes.

Correct. If we were stupid enough to get a mortgage we couldn't pay, we'd lose our homes too.

However, I have a good mortgage and have not lost my home; I suspect you have not either. Therefore, to use your phrasing again, we did not get screwed.

>Any attempt at putting the blame on lack of regulation is a ploy to
>give the gov more power.

You may indeed think that - but history has proven otherwise. We've been through this cycle several times now. And what we are learning, not surprisingly, is that too little regulation is as bad as too much. Capitalism is based on greed. And while greed does work, it also knows no bounds other than what is placed on it by regulation.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Neither party 'created' the crisis.

The most immediate cause is greed.

Now there's a terrific straight line.

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

In 1999 this disaster was predicted. The Bush Admin tried to change the rules starting in 2001. The Dems stopped and blocked all attempts at change. Why?

Nice try. However, the 2005 bill stalled in the GOP controlled Senate, after failing to make it's way out of the GOP controlled Banking subcommittee, chaired by GOP Senator Sarbanes.

Quote

LOOK WHO GOT THE MOST MONEY FROM FREDDIE AND FANNIE. DODD AND OBAMA ARE TWO OF THE TOP THREE.

?

Did you forget about McCain campaign chair Rick Davis, who got $360,000 a year for 5 years from Fannie and Freddie to lobby against more regulations?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[riddler 0]

Quote

Neither party 'created' the crisis.

I would argue that by limiting and/or prohibiting regulation of financial institutions, the politicians did, in fact create the crisis. Sure, the managers made the greedy decisions that enacted the turmoil, and individuals made poor financial decisions. However, in a capitalist market, you can EXPECT those things to happen. Many people are going to make poor financial choices if given the opportunity (credit cards, loans they can't keep, etc). Corporations are going to exact predatory lending practices if they have the opportunity.

The only power the government has to stop it is regulation. The right wants you to believe they are in favor of less regulation. The left wants you to believe they are fighting for the poor and the middle class. Truth is, they are both on the take from the companies that give them money. In this case, companies made sure, by paying politicians, that they could retain every opportunity to screw their customers over. It worked. And when the companies fail, the government has to step in with taxpayer money to save them.

Does the government bail individuals out when we go bankrupt?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[billvon 3,073]

At best, they allowed others to create the crisis. It would be akin to allowing airlines to fly any piece of crap they wanted without regulation. Would there be lots of crashes, deaths, fires and property damage? You bet. Would that mean that the US Government crashed the airplanes? Nope. They just let other people make bad decisions and crash their airplanes.

[riddler 0]

Quote

At best, they allowed others to create the crisis.

I agree. I am not saying that the politicians are directly responsible, in that they gave out bad loans. I am saying they are directly responsible in failing to do their jobs. Part of the role of government is to keep us from hurting each other and ourselves. It's why we have speed limits, airline regulations, et al. In this case, not only did they not do their jobs, they were paid to look the other way.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[riddler 0]

Quote

I am talking of those that needed no down payment, bought a house that cost more than they could afford BECAUSE the Dems , ACORN and (to start with Carter) pushed through banking rules and laws that forced banks to give loans to these people. Then Clinton pushed it even harder in 95 telling all banks that they need to comply with this or get fined.

Typical right-wing diversion tactics. Blame the poor. Affordable housing for the poor is not the reason we are in this mess. All classes are defaulting on loans. Even Ed McMahon defaulted (before Trump offered to bail him out). Dramatically increased home prices affected the middle class, rich and poor alike, and all of them are defaulting.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD