The DOW plunges nearly 800 points in one day, the biggest drop in history

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

OK so what are everyone's feelings on this whole thing? We have Pres. dipshit on National TV with his presidential address stating that if The House and Congress do not come up with something (i.e. his miracle bail out package) then "God help us all" and the "American economy will crumble". I anxiously awaited to see what today would bring at open and close in the markets, hoping for something to give and a knee jerk reaction in the market to cause it to rally and surge so I can pull out and bail, and SLAMMO. I watched it drop 675 points in a matter of minutes. I knew when it opened it wasn't going to be good.

Then a few days back I am watching Leno and Dr. Phil is on the show... He gets up there and starts saying that the proposed bailout package would cost every American approx. 7K. Where in the hell are we all supposed to just come up with an extra 7K when most so many are unemployed, losing their homes, barely able to make ends meet? Then there was talk that plans would be there to make sure taxpayers get paid back? WTF? Like now we need to start believing our government and trusting them with our pocketbooks.

I didn't think Armageddon would get here that soon but then again, we have had Bush in there for almost 8 years...

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[quade 4]

Honest to god if the GOP wins this election we all need to leave the country because the fix certainly is in.

Gallup 3 Day Rolling Average Polls today have Omaba in the lead by 8 points. Should be very interesting to see 3 days from now.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gawain 0]

Well, Congress did nothing and Wall Street threw a fit...

In the end result, there is enough blame to go around, and these companies are not worthy of a tax payer bail out. We're in for a rocky ride, but the end of the world is not here and the market must not wait for the government.

These companies that brought themselves to this pickle need to be positioning themselves in to some really strong governance, and tapping the "Warren Buffet" class of investors and make things happen.

The world market is worth $51 Trillion dollars...

My stocks took a bath today, but I'm holding. My mutual funds are down, but I'm holding.

Know why?

Because if you take any 15-20 year window of the market (edit to add post-depression), it's up. No matter which time span you pick.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[mpohl 1]

Commenting on your last sentence only, re: Bush for 8 yrs...

Somebody must have voted for him in the first place, and then again four years later. What does that tell you (i) about the American electorate and about (ii) the idea of democracy?

Other than that, we are f***ed...

Quote

OK so what are everyone's feelings on this whole thing? We have Pres. dipshit on National TV with his presidential address stating that if The House and Congress do not come up with something (i.e. his miracle bail out package) then "God help us all" and the "American economy will crumble". I anxiously awaited to see what today would bring at open and close in the markets, hoping for something to give and a knee jerk reaction in the market to cause it to rally and surge so I can pull out and bail, and SLAMMO. I watched it drop 675 points in a matter of minutes. I knew when it opened it wasn't going to be good.

Then a few days back I am watching Leno and Dr. Phil is on the show... He gets up there and starts saying that the proposed bailout package would cost every American approx. 7K. Where in the hell are we all supposed to just come up with an extra 7K when most so many are unemployed, losing their homes, barely able to make ends meet? Then there was talk that plans would be there to make sure taxpayers get paid back? WTF? Like now we need to start believing our government and trusting them with our pocketbooks.

I didn't think Armageddon would get here that soon but then again, we have had Bush in there for almost 8 years...

[quade 4]

What makes you think GWB actually won the popular vote either time?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

on the show... He gets up there and starts saying that the proposed bailout package would cost every American approx. 7K. Where in the hell are we all supposed to just come up with an extra 7K when most so many are unemployed, losing their homes, barely able to make ends meet?

Most Americans won't have to. The bottom two quintiles have negative income tax rates thanks to refundable credits. 57% of income tax is paid by the top 5%. I'm not saying we should tax low income earners more (at the bottom they'd literally starve) although it does mean that most people are voting for politicians with expensive ideas they don't actually have to pay for personally.

Even then we aren't covering the full cost of our government spending. Our children might pay for it in the form of interest on the debt.

Or we might pay for it indirectly by way of a devalued dollar that makes imports and foreign vacations more expensive.

Quote

Then there was talk that plans would be there to make sure taxpayers get paid back? WTF? Like now we need to start believing our government and trusting them with our pocketbooks.

Social security replaces 25-75% of people's income at retirement when they don't hit the wage cap (high-income at the low end, low-income with non-working spouse at the high end). Many of us are already counting on the government to give back what we've loaned them from every pay check.

[vortexring 0]

True - but was there ever anything as bad as this before?

I've decided on simple and market leading fixed rate, with instant access, savings accounts.

I'm playing it safe for the time being...

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

What makes you think GWB actually won the popular vote either time?

you're implying a rather hefty amount of fraud to suggest he didn't get the popular vote the second time.

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

What makes you think GWB actually won the popular vote either time?

you're implying a rather hefty amount of fraud to suggest he didn't get the popular vote the second time.

And the way the voting machines were set up, there's no way to check either.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Quote

Commenting on your last sentence only, re: Bush for 8 yrs...

Somebody must have voted for him in the first place, and then again four years later. What does that tell you (i) about the American electorate and about (ii) the idea of democracy?

Other than that, we are f***ed...

Quote

OK so what are everyone's feelings on this whole thing? We have Pres. dipshit on National TV with his presidential address stating that if The House and Congress do not come up with something (i.e. his miracle bail out package) then "God help us all" and the "American economy will crumble". I anxiously awaited to see what today would bring at open and close in the markets, hoping for something to give and a knee jerk reaction in the market to cause it to rally and surge so I can pull out and bail, and SLAMMO. I watched it drop 675 points in a matter of minutes. I knew when it opened it wasn't going to be good.

Then a few days back I am watching Leno and Dr. Phil is on the show... He gets up there and starts saying that the proposed bailout package would cost every American approx. 7K. Where in the hell are we all supposed to just come up with an extra 7K when most so many are unemployed, losing their homes, barely able to make ends meet? Then there was talk that plans would be there to make sure taxpayers get paid back? WTF? Like now we need to start believing our government and trusting them with our pocketbooks.

I didn't think Armageddon would get here that soon but then again, we have had Bush in there for almost 8 years...

Yep, I said it then and I will say it now... S-T-U-P-I-D. You know, it makes me really mad that this country would throw such a big fit over Clinton getting a BJ in the oval office and wanting to keep his private life private. The Republicans were right. What a horrible thing to have happened. That guy should get impeached!

Let's see Bush squeezed his way initially into the Presidency with the help of some of his friends and family which made me question if we truly even live in a democracy anymore or whether it has changed to an oligarchy? Apparently, according to the Florida polls, enough of someone voted him in... Soon, within months we are engaged in a huge war costing trillions of dollars, lives and upset families while he tries to lie to those stupid enough to believe in him that his reason for going to war on Iraq was over Hussein's weapons of mass destruction to which there were none. Duh! He must think the American people are SO STUPID BECAUSE OBVIOUISLY THE MAJORITY OF US ARE!!! But no, Clinton should be impeached!

Then after blatantly lying to us, getting us to spend trillions of dollars on his daddy's war without any reasoning whatsoever except playing on the emotions of the American people after getting attacked on 9/11, we RE-ELECT him while he protects the Bin Ladens family to safety?

Jiminy Christmas America, it is time to Wake Up and smell the coffee!

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[kelpdiver 2]

but since all 2004 polling was in line with the reported results, it sounds like rotten grapes on your part.

[grimmie 186]

The bail out will be a band aid on cancer.
Think about it.
The banking/mortgage industry needs about a trillion dollars.
Social Security will need about a trillion for the upcoming baby boomer retirements.
The war in Iraq will end up costing trillions. The equipment maintenance/repair, veteran's benefits, etc will be staggering even if we leave soon.
Afghanistan will take billions.
Homeland security is a joke.
The auto industry will come to DC hat in hand next.
Illegal immigration is killing us.
Almost every town, city, county and state is broke. They are scrambling to cover healthcare/police/fire/sanitation/infrastructure etc. costs.
The national infrastructure is in dire need of trillions in repair and upgrade.
We are in the midst of an energy crisis.
Education needs help.
People just lost 1.2 trillion in value today.

The next administration will be the most important of our lifetime.

Forget about guns, abortion and religion when you vote. We have bigger fish to fry folks.

We don't really produce anything. Our economy is service based.

Will we stay a military and financial giant in the next decade?

I know a lot of folks think we will ALWAYS be #1 in the world. Whatever that means, we're in dire straights here kids.

Why the hell would we vote in four more years of this crap?

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Quote

Well, Congress did nothing and Wall Street threw a fit...

In the end result, there is enough blame to go around, and these companies are not worthy of a tax payer bail out. We're in for a rocky ride, but the end of the world is not here and the market must not wait for the government.

These companies that brought themselves to this pickle need to be positioning themselves in to some really strong governance, and tapping the "Warren Buffet" class of investors and make things happen.

The world market is worth $51 Trillion dollars...

My stocks took a bath today, but I'm holding. My mutual funds are down, but I'm holding.

Know why?

Because if you take any 15-20 year window of the market (edit to add post-depression), it's up. No matter which time span you pick.

Yes, but if you're in, you'd better be in for the long haul and feel comfortable watching your investments take another huge bath and stay that way for years or even a 50% depreciation hit for a long time to come.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Apparently, according to the Florida polls, enough of someone voted him in... Soon, within months we are engaged in a huge war costing trillions of dollars, lives and upset families while he tries to lie to those stupid enough to believe in him that his reason for going to war on Iraq was over Hussein's weapons of mass destruction to which there were none.

It was 2 years and a mass attack, not months, before the Iraqi war.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

The bail out will be a band aid on cancer.
Think about it.
The banking/mortgage industry needs about a trillion dollars.
Social Security will need about a trillion for the upcoming baby boomer retirements.
The war in Iraq will end up costing trillions. The equipment maintenance/repair, veteran's benefits, etc will be staggering even if we leave soon.
Afghanistan will take billions.
Homeland security is a joke.
The auto industry will come to DC hat in hand next.
Illegal immigration is killing us.
Almost every town, city, county and state is broke. They are scrambling to cover healthcare/police/fire/sanitation/infrastructure etc. costs.
The national infrastructure is in dire need of trillions in repair and upgrade.
We are in the midst of an energy crisis.
Education needs help.
People just lost 1.2 trillion in value today.

?

It's OK. We'll just cut taxes for ourselves and it will all get paid for by China.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[grimmie 186]

Or Russia, India, Mexico, et al will buy us and sell us for 20 cents on the dollar!

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Then what?

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[grimmie 186]

Exactly...

[mpohl 1]

Discounting for a popular vote, Russia (Medvedev/Putin), China (Wen Jiabao), Brazil (Lula da Silva), or even Venezuela (Chavas) are fairing much better with their leaders.

So, even if Bush was not actually elected, it still was a poor choice by the American "non-electorate"...

P.S.: Suffice it to say that I agree w/ your implication.

Quote

What makes you think GWB actually won the popular vote either time?

[grimmie 186]

"Americathon"...a week long telethon for the USA.
Maybe all of those nations we have given billions to over the years will send in a donation.

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

HoHoHo! I won't hold my breath!

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Then what?

The Chinese people look after us, or course. That's been the general policy of the Bush administration for 8 years now.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[grimmie 186]

And Iraq will give us a trillion dollars worth of oil!

[Misternatural 0]

I hear ya and I'm loosing my ass too in this market but everyone just needs to calm down. The Dow will probably go down another 500 tomorrow because wall st. is worried about what equities are actually worth due to the uncertainty about the actual cost of money, the tightening credit profit margins, and liquidity in general. This crisis will seek its own level just like it did after '87 but Paulson and Bush are not helping by placing so much emphasis on whether or not this congress passes this friggin bill. Picture people yelling in your ear JUMP! JUMP! JUMP OUT NOW! before the spot is good- it's like that.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[TheAnvil 0]

Jen posting in SC. It truly must be a crisis of sorts.
I don't like the bailout plan at all for myriad reasons. I think the current crisis is a vestige of many things, looking back on it over the past few days. Greed, partisanship, and stupidity are three of the main factors I think - among many, many others.

Greed on the part of bankers and lenders who went for profits on instruments doomed to fail. They should have known better.

Partisanship on the part of those who ignored the warnings the reviled Mr. Bush and a few members of his party put forth on Fannie and Freddie over the past few years. Partisanship also on the part of Republicans who refused to control discretionary spending - from the great Ronald Reagan to Mr. George W. Bush. Partisanship on the part of Democrats who refuse to face the reality that entitlement spending is out of control, untenable over the long term, and in vast, vast need of reform. On all of these there's blame for the left and the right, the blame I just laid is at the majority of each party.

Stupidity on the part of those who were not and are not living within their means. Their over-reliance on credit to finance their lifestyles is no small part of what put us in this mess. Buying more house than you can afford is dumber than carrying massive credit card debt and making only minimum payments.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!